Kuno and Nabiki

[raanefea]

OK, we've all heard trhe theories where Nabiki gets Tatewaki. How about a Universe where Nabiki gets Ranma(and survives the experience), while Tatewaki gets one of the two people he always dreamed of -- Akane!

Sounds like fun, no? After all, Tatewaki and Akane have very similiar personalities, and both are delusional enough -- one thinks Ranma's a sorcerer, the other that Ranma's a pervert, six of one, half a dozen of the other, how, bout it?

[Asuza_chan]

AHHHH!!! Sacriledge!!!! *RTubbing evil bad image from mind* Kuno and Akane!?!?! Nabiki and Ranma!?!?! Noooooo!


Just kidding. It would make an interesting fanfic, but it just really couldn't have happened in the series. Kuno's just too damn stupid for Akane, and Nabiki is too mone-hungry for Ranma.

[raanefea]

No offense, but is Akane any kind of bright? You want me to name all the idotic things she does? (Challenging Shampoo, who was tough enough to make Ranma scared. Never once making the connection between P-chan and Ryoga. Going on a rampage every time a girl and Ranma are in the same country together...)

I consider Tatewaki actually more functional. And besides, if he actually g-e-t-s Akane, he might stop his "Ranma the evil sorcerer" delusion.

[Asuza_chan]

Of course not, I didn't say she was bright. I mean, if she still doesn't know who p-chan is, I mean COME ON! But I really don't think she's as stupid as good ole Kuno ^_^

[raanefea]

Ebout equally smart. With her, you notice it less, since she is more ... endowed...


That was a sexist joke, but I am not a chauvinist -- I admire Nabiki for her looks a-n-d her brains!:)

[Asuza_chan]

HEHE! Yeah, Nabs is definitely the smartest chip off the Tendo block. she must geti it from her mom, cuz Soun isn't exacly brilliant :B:

[raanefea]

So is it any kind of story where Ranma settles for less than the best?:) I tell you, Nabiki is the ONE for him!

As for Akane and Tatewaki, maybe some experimental lunatic-breeding gentic program gets them together?

[Ko Hakaisha]

Gah. Akane has to be smarter than Kunou. There's no way in the world anyone can be dumber than him! Well, with the possible exception of his father ... but still!

[raanefea]

Well, if anyone can do it, Akane can. Tell me, how is his Ranma The Sorceror delusion any different from Ranma The Pervert delusion. Or his Ranma Is Two delusion from her "P-chan -- just a cute little piggy" delusion? Tatewaki attacks Ranma the same way every time, sure of victory. Akane attacks Ranma the same way every time, only he lets her because he doesn't want to pound on a girl.

Evidence is evidence. And like I said, give him Akane, and perhaps he'll break out of his fixation. Which will give Ranma his deadlies enemy -- Tatewaki who just got his life's first clue and now comes to take revenge for his humiliation of the past year, Akane by his side!

Tremble Ranma, tremble!

[chasta]

Ack! Akane and Kuno? Interesting idea, though. Personally (and this would only be if Akane and Ranma couldn't be together), I'd pick Ryoga. He's such a sweetie.

[Asuza_chan]

No dammit! Ryoga's mine! All mine I tell you :lol:

[mousse69]

Originally posted by raanefea


No offense, but is Akane any kind of bright? You want me to name all the idotic things she does? (Challenging Shampoo, who was tough enough to make Ranma scared. Never once making the connection between P-chan and Ryoga. Going on a rampage every time a girl and Ranma are in the same country together...)

I consider Tatewaki actually more functional. And besides, if he actually g-e-t-s Akane, he might stop his "Ranma the evil sorcerer" delusion.

shampoo challenged akane. she only accepted the challenge

[Ko Hakaisha]

Plus Shampoo never scared Ranma. She annoyed the hell outta him. ^^

[raanefea]

When she first finds out Ranma's a guy, and kisses him again, everyone still thinking she's on her vendetta, his expression clearly reads "OK kids, I'm officially egg roll filling):)

She is bumped down to annoying after Ranma learns he can handle her. And once she is "officially married" she stops her "assasin" mode, so instead of a direct threat to life and limb, she becomes a source of food to freeload off:) But when she first shows up, yes, Ranma is scared.

And who challenged whom does not matter. She was dangerous to Ranma, and Akane wants to fight her? I mean, she has already seen for herself exactly how their skills compared too each other. But she is delusional enough to think she'll just take that bimbo to a private place and wallop her till she squeals!


Yep. A definite perfect match for Tatewaki.

[Ko Hakaisha]

Uh, no. He wasn't scared. He was tired of bein' frickin' annoyed to death by her. After all, the first time he beat her, he took her out with one kick. She was easy, but danged annoying. Just a real bother.

[raanefea]

Just callin'em as I see'em. I thought he was. And the second time he defeated her, as a guy, was pure accident.

But anyway, Akane has seen enough of her by now to know she is out of Shampoo's league. Which was my point. As for Shampoo, I think she is at least on Ukyo's level, and could concievably be a threat to Ryoga (on a good day) But you are entiled to your own opinion. I just think mine's more right:)

[Ko Hakaisha]

We all think our's are more right. ^^ That's why we think them.

I believe that the fiancées strength could be in proportion to when they appeared in the show. Akane was first, she's weakest. Then Shampoo, and finally Ukyo as the strongest. (Yuusuke'd be glad to hear that! ^^) I base this on how good a fight they gave Ranma when they appeared. Ukyo was really difficult for Ranma even after he learned the Chestnut Fist (granted, he was going easy on her). Shampoo seemed, hm, slightly difficult for him, but he spent most've the time running away. Akane, well ... she was nothing. He really only lets her hit him.

[raanefea]

By your logic, that would make Kodachi everything Cologne would be if the latter wasn't such a wimp:)

But, I think Shampoo would be tougher than Ukyo. Ukyo did not have Cologne riding her like the Pony Express. And since Ranma and Ryoga both picked up their best stuff from Cologne, Shampoo could be just below the Ryoga level.

[Ko Hakaisha]

How many secret techniques does Shampoo know?? The only one I can name is the shampoo one that makes you lose your memory, which hardly counts as a technique.

Kodachi appeared just after Akane. So close, in fact, that they're almost equal in strength. Ranma's only problems with Kodachi was that he had to learn an entire style of martial arts in one night. After that night, he was exhausted, PLUS he had to battle in girl-form.

[raanefea]

Re:Kodachi. Yeah, I know. She sucks. But I thought she came after Ukyo... Oh, well.

And Shampoo is trained by Cologne. Even if it's just in throws and kicks like regular martial artists, that still leaves her trained to do very GOOD throws and kicks. And I still maintain that if she really decided Ranma must die, he'd be in for a tough fight.

[Ko Hakaisha]

She really did decide that Ranma must die. An' he kicked her head in an' ran off. She continually attacked him an' he either beat her with no effort or ran away with incredible easy (Saotome School of Anything Goes Martial Arts Final Attack!). She really wasn't much of a problem to him.

Besides, KUNOU is good with basic martial arts. He doesn't stand a CHANCE against Ranma's Chestnut Fist. Granted, Shampoo could beat him, but the point here is that it's practically impossible to beat a special technique with common punches and kicks.

[raanefea]

She was easily beaten by Ranma as a girl, but she didn't know him then. After Cologne sent her out to hunt down the offender, she tracked "her" to Japan and was only beated a second time when Ranma accidentally dropped the top ball of her own bonbori on her head (without even trying!). This can hardly count as a loss, since it was pure luck.

By now, she's learned his style, so if it came down to a deadly battle, she might very well avoid the Chestnut Fist by some trick.

And Tatewaki knows no kind of attack except charging forward desperately hoping he runs his sword into his opponent. If he was more cunning, he could have scored quite a few hits, but he telegraphs his moves a day in advance. Shampoo makes no such mistakes.

By the way, Tatewaki knows(or at least employs) nothing except kendo, what with his "noble clueless warrior" fits) -- he could probably kill Ranma through pure unexpectedness if he tried kicking him once:)

[Ko Hakaisha]

You drive a good arguement, but I won't give up that easy! ^^

Also, thanks for reminding me of the name of Shampoo's weapons. I'd forgotten what they were called and have been trying to remember forever.

Finally, to the debatin' bit ... It could be argued that Ranma didn't actually drop it on accident, he'd just gotten fed up with her constant attacking. In his temper, he did what came natural, and only after that realized what horrible mistake he'd done ...

Kunou has also learned Ranma's style, and you don't see him avoiding the Chestnut Fist.

Shampoo has yet to reveal she has any tricks. If she does, I'd be most shocked. And if that trick were able to aid her in avoiding the Chestnut Fist, I'd probably faint.

From every time I've seen, no one has been able to avoid the Chestnut fist besides the Old Ghoul, but, since she's the person that taught it to him, I'm really not surprised about that.

Shampoo has no attack except throwing random punchs and kicks, and maybe slinging about large beach balls. There's no difference between Kunou and Shampoo here. ^^

Oh, loved your last statement. ^^ Heh, even if he didn't connect with Ranma, our young hero would probably die of shock.("He has legs!?! [croak]") ^^

Now, don't get me wrong on all of this. I really do think Shampoo's awesome. ^^ Sure, she could take Kunou out in a second, but I'm trying to help you realize the similarities between the two. Neither one of them is strong at all compared to Ranma, Ryouga, etc. come the fourth season.

[raanefea]

Well, you do admit that Cologne is the only one whe has demonstrated a proven ability to avoid Chestnut Fist. And the most logical person she would teach it to would be Shampoo.

Shampoo is similiar to Tatewaki in one regard -- it is ridiculously easy to get them both so mad, they won't use even what tricks they do know. But Shampoo has SOME measure of cunning, Tatewaki feels even ordinary common sense is much too common for his noble art:) So Shampoo's psychological hangup isn't totally debilitating.

As for Ranma defeating her out of annoyance -- my arguement is that his very shock at realizing what he's done shows that he, at least, considers Shampoo dangerous, not merely annoying. Hey, Tatewaki easily wins the annoyance championship, combining the worst behaviour of Shampoo(to Ranma-chan) and Ryoga(to Ranma-kun) But you don't see Ranma shocked and dismayed at humiliating him! And if you want to use the gender arguement, Ranma isn't too careful about humiliating Kodachi either.

So, I say Ranma did it by accident. But it comes down to reading his facial expressions, anyway -- so there will always be room for nitpicking:)

And speaking of the Kuno clan, I think they are all seriously underused, don't you? I mean, Shampoo eventually becomes more or less of a friend, so does Ukyo, almost at once -- Akane is just something to put up with, like the flu bug:). But Kodachi and Tatewaki know no limits in their fire of passion!:) Or delusion. And their daddy makes THEM look healthy.

If they ever made a show starring the Kuno family, I'd buy the very first fan club membership!

[Ko Hakaisha]

Ah, yes, the Kunou Family is great. ^^ I, however, am glad that Kodachi doesn't make much of an appearance later. Tatewaki is really great, I wish they'd show him more. The Principal is ... fun at the beginning, but after a while he gets kinda old ... now if only he'd get new tricks. ^^

My statement wasn't that Ranma did it on purpose, more like he did it on accident in his anger.

Ranma was never shocked nor dismayed from humiliating Shampoo ... well, besides the instant in which he got the fated Kiss of Death and the Kiss of Love. He was shocked when he got the Kiss of Death, as he didn't really understand Amazon Law, and the Kiss of Love dismayed him, thinking that he'd have to live with this unerring annoyance in both forms now. I don't know about you, but I am shocked at what I've done when I egg my annoyin' little sister on. Frankly, I hate it when I do that, because she just comes on ten times as strong.

Shampoo's measure of cunning usually consists of some enchanted object/magical noodles that she forces on Ranma to make him go out on a date with her or fall in love with her. It's a good thing Tatewaki doesn't have that kind of cunning, because I'd hate to see a Tatewaki Ranma-kun WAFF flying around the boards. [gags at the thought of it]

And, last of all, I wouldn't consider Akane something like the flue bug. ^^ Maybe in fighting ability (when compared to Ranma), but it seems that Ranma and Akane have at least SOME sort of relationship, even if it is only friends.

A show of the Kunou's, eh? Well ... that might be interesting ... ...

[raanefea]

Originally posted by Ko Hakaisha
Ah, yes, the Kunou Family is great. ^^ I, however, am glad that Kodachi doesn't make much of an appearance later. Tatewaki is really great, I wish they'd show him more. The Principal is ... fun at the beginning, but after a while he gets kinda old ... now if only he'd get new tricks. ^^

My statement wasn't that Ranma did it on purpose, more like he did it on accident in his anger.



And mine is that he didn't actively "do" it -- it just happened to him.




Ranma was never shocked nor dismayed from humiliating Shampoo ... well, besides the instant in which he got the fated Kiss of Death and the Kiss of Love.




That's what I refer to




He was shocked when he got the Kiss of Death, as he didn't really understand Amazon Law, and the Kiss of Love dismayed him, thinking that he'd have to live with this unerring annoyance in both forms now.




He gets annoyance enough so it wouldn't dismay him that much. I believe it was more than that.




I don't know about you, but I am shocked at what I've done when I egg my annoyin' little sister on.





That's right, because you know what you are in for! Ranma's best day has twice as many annoyances as ten of your worst (I hope for your sake:)) So his dismay was at something more than annoyance.






Frankly, I hate it when I do that, because she just comes on ten times as strong.

Shampoo's measure of cunning usually consists of some enchanted object/magical noodles that she forces on Ranma to make him go out on a date with her or fall in love with her.


But she does have it. So if she finds it necessary to use it in battle, it's in the arsenal and not just applicable to magic noodles.



It's a good thing Tatewaki doesn't have that kind of cunning, because I'd hate to see a Tatewaki Ranma-kun WAFF flying around the boards. [gags at the thought of it]


But think of Kodachi's horror if Ranma ate Shampoo's brew, saw Kodachi, fell in love, somehow got stuck as a girl, and pursued her like that! Poor, poor Kodachi... heh, heh.


And, last of all, I wouldn't consider Akane something like the flue bug. ^^ Maybe in fighting ability (when compared to Ranma), but it seems that Ranma and Akane have at least SOME sort of relationship, even if it is only friends.



Yeah, but the flu gets attached to its host, as well:)


A show of the Kunou's, eh? Well ... that might be interesting ... ...


Well, once the author is done with whatever she is working on now... we could pitch it to her. Think of the possibilities. Daddy Kuno is discovered to be the long-lost crown prince of some third-world country... Kodachi awakens a buried alien who falls madly in love with her... but it's female!(Apparently Kodachi's laughter is also the irresistible mating song of the alien's species' males) Tatewaki is marked for death by the Yakuza... they over hear him use some convoluted poeticv allusion and decide he stole their secret code!

Oh, delight...(evil grin):)

[Ko Hakaisha]

I stand by my decision on the first one. ^^

Good. There's nothing else to refer to. ^^

At the time, his only annoyance was really his dad. Keep in mind this was before Shampoo was an active character, Ryouga had made but three appearances, Cologne hadn't shown up, Mousse hadn't shown up, Happousai hadn't shown up, Kodachi had made but two appearances, and Ukyou hadn't shown up. The worst thing that could happen would be A.) Genma does something stupid again or B.) Akane gets jealous over nothing. Nuthin' super-annoying.

'fraid you hoped wrong. My sister must be some kind of incarnation of hell ...

Name a time Shampoo's found it necessary to use cunning in battle. And I don't want some stupid reference like "When Shampoo stole Happousai's Super Soba noodles." That's just stupid.

[laughter] I love it when something bad happens to Kodachi!! [evil laughter]

Though a flu bug may get attached to it's host, the host is never attached to the flu bug. It's a parasite-prey relationship. [shrug] I'd say that you'd have to come up with a little better analogy. ^^

[snicker] Better yet, make Principal Kunou a descendant of the Kings of Ha'waii! ^^

[raanefea]

At the time, his curse + Tatewaki + Akane + Genma are already landing him in deep ripe stuff literally every day. He is engaged to a lunatic, that alone leaves any real-life experience, short of being eternally trapped on Jerry Springer show, small potatoes. And you said it yourself, Ryoga was already a part of it, and thanks to Ryoga getting him involved in Akane's gymnastics tournament, he's now met Kodachi, too. You have only one sister, though I'm sure it doesn't SOUND that way:)

As for Shampoo, like I said, she gets so mad when she fights, she doesn't use tricks in her all-consuming urge to introduce her opponent's face to her bonbori. But since we do know she has the CAPACITY to be sneaky, we can expect her to be more dangerous when she runs into an opponent that she hates bad enough to actually overcome her first impulse and start making plans. So she has much deadlier potential than we actually see.

And as for Ranma-Akane relationship, they just like to bug each other:) So the attachment is mutual. And even though I am sure your sister made Satan give up his job to make way for her:), you'd still feel sorry for her if she got herself in some deadly trouble, wouldn't you?

And Daddy Kuno should be the heir to some country other than Hawaii, just so we get to watch him try "Hawaiiforming" his future subjects! Ahhh, possibilities are endless...

[Ko Hakaisha]

Tatewaki landed him in nothing. After the first three or so episodes, Ranma got ticked, beat the snot out of him, an' then the young samurai kept his distance for a while. [blink] Well, besides giving Ranma-chan those flowers. ^^ Akane landed him in nothing, she just beat him up when Genma got him into it. ^^ Ryouga, though he had made Ranma's life some strange version of Hell, left much to frequently to be considered any kind of permenant character. Kodachi had made but one appearance. Ranma beat her, an' she stayed quite for a while, a lot like her brother.

Shampoo, although she has often shown that she has the CUNNING to pull a trick, hasn't shown she has the BRAINS to know she could pull the trick. Sure, she could pull it out of battle, but when it comes to fighting, she isn't smart at all. No tricks whatsoever.

And, as for the last thing, as long as she didn't haul me into the mortal danger as well, of course I would. ^^ But, knowing her, she'd have annoyed me to death long before she got in mortal danger, AND she'd've annoyed the person who put her in mortal danger to death long before he had a chance to endanger her.

Oh, wait! ^^ I got it!! Maybe Principal Kunou traded Furinkan High for the United States of America, and has created new laws such as "Must wear a Hula Skirt every Tuesday" and "Wednesday is the Official Luau Day." ^^

[raanefea]

The cumulative effeact is that he should have found Shampoo nothing out of the ordinary.

As for cunning, Ryoga isn't known for brains either, but he's been known to surprise Ranma on occasions... And Shampoo isn't stupid -- just overemotional. She reacts to things like rivals, "airen", Mousse, etc whithout giving her brain a chance to catch up. But her cunning is proof that the is a brain SOMEWHERE in there... it's just swamped under with hormones and Pavlovian reflexes:)

Now suppose she faces something that she hates so damn much, her normal anger is replaced by a cold, calculating determination to get maximally medieval on the guy's ass. A Shampoo like that? I'd put bets on her over Ukyo, myself.

[Ko Hakaisha]

But do you honestly think that would ever happen? 'Sides, even then, think about what Ukyo could do if she ever got seriously mad. The worst I've seen was in "Ukyo can Cook," when she first appeared. That's when she beat down Genma, who, although he looks like a pansy, was able to increase his aura equal to Happousai's. An' it seems like she wasn't even TOO mad, then.

As far as anger-strength goes, I'd say the prize would DEFINATELY have to go to either Ranma or Ryouga. [remembers the time when Ryouga thought Ranma had "taken advantage of Akane" during the Heaven Wind of the Dragon episodes ... ]

I think Shampoo DOES have a brain. However, when it comes to fighting, she relies on more primitive instict.

[Yoshi-chan]

well Nabiki will use Ranma for money ^.^;;;

[raanefea]

I was not talking about anger-STRENGTH, Shampoo's got enough of that. I was talking about winning a fight becoming so important, she restrains her initial impulse to jump in swinging like an electric fan:) and THINKS about how she can do maximum damage.

In short, my take is, all that holds her back is overdependence on blind rage. If she just focuses it, directs it, and uses it instead of it using her, then yes, I'd say Shampoo has more potential than Ukyo. They are both good, but Ukyo wasn't trained by Cologne, and that has to count for something!

As for whether that will ever happen, well, picture this -- if Ranma was somehow immobilized and about to die, no one else around to save him, only Shampoo and the creep she has to go through to save Ranma -- and it's obvious that the direct assault wouldn't work...

As for Ukyo vs Genma, keep in mind, Genma is a coward. His instinct is to look for escape, so it would get in the way during a fight. "Fear is the mind killer":) And Ryoga just goes berserk, which handicaps him the same way Shampoo is handicapped.

[Ko Hakaisha]

Genma, though he is a yellow-bellied coward, doesn't just run away. ^^ Occasionally, he actually stands up and fights. Actually, he does almost every time, besides the times he crosses Happousai's path. ^^ Anyways, he's an excellent fighter no matter what you say, and he isn't TOO much of a coward.

Ryouga does go berserk, but he seems to retain more brains than Shampoo does. I've actually seen him do a couple of intelligent things in his berserk mode, and I've never once seen Shampoo do anything wise while she was fighting, angry or no.

Do you honestly think Shampoo would realize a head-on attack wouldn't work? I doubt she would. Frankly, I don't remember her doing anything besides a head-on attack. Unless, of course, you don't consider smashing through a wall without warning a head-on attack.

Of course, if Shampoo did focus and direct her rage, then she'd be really good. Same with all fighters. The problem is, though, that I don't think it's conceivable for her to actually focus like that. An', even if she did, then Ukyo would get serious in their fight, an' Ukyo would still come out on top. [shrug]

[raanefea]

Genma is a good(read: sneaky) fighter during his sparring with Ranma. Against Ukyo, he would be severely distracted by frenzied imaginings of all the lovely varieties of agony Ukyo is about to inflict on him. As I said, he has the skill, but not the killer instinct.

Ryoga is better at focusing his rage than Shampoo. Still not too good -- he gives the impression of being more clueless than he really is precisely because it's so easy for him to let his feelings of rage, depression, etc, convince him of various lunatic delusions. "RAAAAANMA! ARE YOU PICKING ON POOR AKANE AGAAAAAAAAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!":)

And I just can't dismiss Cologne's training out of hand. So I think if both Ukyo and Shampoo focused on each other with all the cold deadliness they could muster, Ukyo would get the worst of it.

In my opinion:)

[Ko Hakaisha]

And I say that Cologne, although an excellent martial artist, has sucky pupils of they don't have their special techniques. Since Shampoo has no special techniques, she's obviously just sucky all the way around. [shrugs]

Not saying she couldn't beat me up or anything. ;)

Ukyo, it seems to me, has the speed, the skill, and the off-the-ball style to beat Shampoo, unless Shampoo got really really really really PO'ed an' simply destroyed the very world the two were inhabiting. Then again, that couldn't happen, so ... ^^ I think that if they were both focused, concentrating, etc., Ukyo would come out on top. Worse for the wear and tear, of course, but still on top.

[raanefea]

Shampoo was the best her village coul produce. And since her village's tradition produces paragons like Cologne, she is obviously good enough to be the cream of that tradition.

All that holds her back is her over-bubbly nature. She has exactly two switches: GLEEFUL YIPPING and CHARGING RHINO. If she gets over that, she is the champ.

Not that Ranma would be any less patronizing to her, of course:) That boy has zero-level self preservation.

[Ko Hakaisha]

Shampoo was NOT the best her village could produce. Cologne was. I'm not saying she doesn't have the potential to be good, I'm just saying that, without Cologne's special techniques, she sucks. Of course, if she ever DID learn some, she would easily be able to kick Ukyo's spatula-weilding butt all over the place, but without them, she's pancake batter. Sure, she can beat Akane. She can beat Kuno. If she snuck up behind Ukyo, she could probably whip her, too. But, in a fair, one-on-one fight, she'd get squashed. She needs those special techniques.

[raanefea]

Very well. let me modify that. Shampoo was the best her village could produce RIGHT NOW. Cologne is old news. I was referring to the Amazon warrior tradition as it has developed over all their history, culminating in this generation as the final step.

Cologne was produced X years ago, X being at least a hundred years. I see I'll have to write this in mathematically precise terms:)

And our disagreement basically boils down to this: I say Shampoo needs to control her TEMPER to be good, you say she needs some equalitent of the Shi Shi Hodoukan. Against Ryoga, perhaps. Against Ranma, certainly. Against Ukyo, I'm pretty sure all she needs is an attitude adjustment.

[Ko Hakaisha]

I'm not saying she needs something as drastic as the Shi Shi Hokoudan to take out Ranma or Ryouga. All she has to do is learn the Chestnut Fist, an' the two would die of shock. Whilst Ukyo, never really knowing Shampoo's techniques, would have an incredibly difficult battle, but I think she would be victorious in the end. By the skin of her teeth, of course.

Ah, mathmatics. ^^ Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou!! ^^ Anyways, I say that Cologne, though she wasn't of the current generation of the Amazon tribes, is the strongest of their people, by far. Shampoo is the best of the current generation, I'll give you that, but Cologne is easily a hundred times better (Basing this on your own mathmatics-- Ranma is ten times better than Shampoo, and he's nothing compared to Cologne).

So, in short, Ukyo, imho, is better than Shampoo, easily. If Shampoo could ever get her act together and learn a secret technique, then she could put up an incredible fight against Ukyo. I still think, however, that Ukyo would claim victory. If Shampoo could learn TWO special techniques, then Ukyo is doomed. But like that would ever happen.

Oh, and just for added input, I think that Shampoo WOULD become more clever and diabolical if she ever learned the technique. She has a habit of, when becoming a serious thread, becoming a VERY serious threat. I think that learning the technique would get her brained straightened out, but there's no wa in HFIL that she'd get it straightened out all on her own.

[raanefea]

Of course Cologne is better than Shampoo! Experience if nothing else. But Shampoo is the best that Cologne's warrior tradition can produce in this generation, so I think even without the secret techniques but with a little self-disciplinary reins on her BATTERING RAM mode, she could take Ukyo.

As for Ranma, he has the scriptwriter on his side, so it'd be hard for him NOT to win!:)

[Ko Hakaisha]

And I think you hold Amazons in too high a regard. ^^ Honestly, I've never seen an Amazon win against Shampoo, besides the duo Lin-Lin and Lung-Lung, and they used that cheap dragon technique. If Shampoo's the best they've got, then they're REALLY in trouble. Sure, her strength may be great, her speed incredible, but it's nothing compared to MANY other people. I know she could kick my butt from her to Timbuktu, but that's nothing compared to many other martial artists. Ranma, Ryouga, Happousai, Genma, Cologne, and more could take her down. This is, as a rule, excepted. Do you agree? Now, you think that she is stronger than Ukyo, if she can get her act together. I think that Ukyo would still have the upper hand due to her speed and unusual style.

And, just for the record, Takahashi doesn't really make Ranma all powerful. He's never won a fight against Ryouga, he's only won one against Cologne, and just one against Happousai.

I'm afraid this'll be my last post in this thread for a while. I'm off for a weekend trip, so ... it's been a great debate!! ^^