eva2000
29-06-00, 05:05 PM
InterloperEvangelion
Global user
(2/26/00 6:56:07 pm)
203.54.1.73
Reply | Edit | Del All Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi I really love the series and im hanging out for the movies but is there someone who can please explain what the two last episodes meant? because I was so confused I was left sitting in my chair for 10mins wondering what the hack just happened! so if anyone could please enlighten ne as to what happened I would be very appreicative!
thankyou!
A T h 401
Global user
(2/26/00 11:26:12 pm)
203.134.1.91
Reply | Edit | Del Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi there InterloperEvangelion,
This seems like a good place to begin that discussion on the last two episodes which seems to be needed. Pen2 has let us know that, like me he likes the finale and hopefully he will join in the discussion early and we can drag everyone in.
As to what happened, that was Third Impact and Shinji's experiance.
I think the best way to start the discussion would be by asking everyone what they think they understood the least (a difficult question i know), or the opposite, by asking what everyone liked the most ('liked' being a better word than 'understand').
For me, its the confrontations of each characters inner most fears, that we see the many realities that make up the one character. Misato would have to be the most prominent Character of the last two episodes, she is the furthest (i cant spell) fallen but also one of the most powerful and intergrating characters of the last two eps. (Almost like Shinji is using Her as his core, through which he can finally find his own sense of self orientation/ self image)
Please, i would love to hear everyone thoughts on this and the last two episodes. (feel free to ask me to explain what i mean- i have a bad tendancy to simply assume people know what im talking about, after all I do, lol)
Pen2
Global user
(2/27/00 11:12:22 am)
203.21.75.86
Reply | Edit | Del Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my view of the last episodes is basically this (ath has a pretty firm grasp of Qabalism [sorry if i spelt that wrong] which features rather heavily in Evangelion, so he'll probably prove me wrong on a few points )
O.k. i haven't watched 0:13 in a while so i'll probably end up editing this later but...
0:13 depicts the Human Instrumentality Project, in which the entire human race loses their "ego border" and becomes a "single form" (This is supposedly similar to when Shinji is absorbed into EVA-01) The reasons for this project are the focus of one of the sections. According to Ritsuko, the human self/form is flawed. "Our minds lack something basic" This lack is the cause of mankinds negative emotions like fear, insecurity and what have you. And so, in collating the Human Race into a single self/form, these needs are fulfilled or no longer needed (not quite sure there)
I guess i'll add the rest later. (After i re-watch the vid.) in the meantime, anyone else got any thoughts/comments/blatent errors on my part?
----"Gyaaa" -Penē
A T h 401
Global user
(2/28/00 12:14:43 am)
203.134.1.91
Reply | Edit | Del Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, i know a little about the Qabalah (which is biased towards a certain trend- Rabbis would be shaking their beards at me most of the time).
I agree with you Pen2, that Instrumentality is the evolution of all humans into one form/force. The best way for me to think of it is that this process is only the breaking down of the Personality (Netzach, Hod, Yesod and Malkuth on the Tree of Life) and the rising of Humanity to Tiphareth (which is a Unity in that it is a reflection of Kether, the Supreme ONE).
Tiphareth is also the lower point of the Individuality, or the True Ego, of which the Personality is a fragmented reflection of.
This causes me some problems as Gendo says that this is the path to becoming one with God, but attaining Tiphareth Consciousness is not the Supreme Attainment- that is Kether consciousness.
As to whether the needs are no longer there or are fullfilled, i would sit on the fence- and say a bit of both. By the human race becoming ONE there is complimentation- this One becomes like the Sun which is self supporting (it has needs but it satisfiyes these needs within itself)((also the symbol for Tiphareth is the Sun which illistrates my point))
Probably the last thing i would like to give my opinion on (for now)is that i believe that the 'something missing from the core' is the realisation of the Personality that it is a distortion of the Individuality. But here we have Platonic concepts of The One and im sure that most people stopped reading when they hit the word Netzach (but this goes to show how universal and relevant the Story of Evangelion is)
sorry for boring those who got this far but i will certainly read what ever you have to write.
A T h 401
EVA-Pilot
(3/8/00 12:45:38 am)
203.21.47.3
Reply | Edit | Del Genesis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this may not have all that much to do with Genesis 0:13 directly but it is something i would like to hear some talk on.
For myself i have always found that the series has some meaningful turning points. For starters, the first few eps i feel very little empathy towards Shinji or Rei, they both seem a little cold.
But when Asuka arrives things seem to liven and lighten up. And the humour here is well done. For a while things are all fun and games, even though Giant Angels are attacking there is always room for a laugh.
Then the 12th Angel attacks and things are no longer as fun as they seem. In fact things grow steadily worse with each day, and even though the Angels are still being repelled the characters show signs of losing their own inner battles.
The 15th Angel takes out Asuka, the 16th takes out Rei and in a way the 17th takes down Shinji. The defining point (before the final finale) is that even though Shinji Kills the last Angel Shinji falls (emotionally)
This fall is absoulutely nessessary for one to feel for Shinji in the Last episodes. In a way Shinji is being shown as a Christ figure, one who must descend into the depths in order to redeemn not only himself, but all the Personalities he has known.
What do you think about this?
ATh
David Ikari
EVA-Pilot
(3/29/00 1:42:42 pm)
203.108.191.45
Reply | Edit | Del Genisis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the last two episodes of Neon Genisis Evangelion, it was shwoing the human instrumentality. The first was the shwoing of thebeginning of instrumentality, the second showing Shinji Ikari's instrumentality which he seemed to have succesfully passed. It is very good for a psycolohgical discussion. If any one has any questions about the meanings of any pictures then just ask. I have discussed all possible meanings with a fellow Neon Genisis lover. Meaning a lover of Evangelion.
catgirl
EVA-Pilot
(3/29/00 6:17:50 pm)
24.94.69.121
Reply | Edit | Del Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I just rewatched the entire series over two days (I always have an Eva-thon once in awhile) and I still haven't figured out the nuances of the last two episodes.
Here's what I think:
Episode 25, as others have already said, is the beginning of Instrumentality (or the Third Impact, or Complementation). The last Angel has been defeated and, according to the prophesies in the Dead Sea Scrolls, humanity will begin to evolve with the defeat of the last Angel.
Instrumentality begins by exposing the bare nerve endings of everyone's souls, which means we get to see within everyone's minds. The "higher existence" of humanity as one entity. The "ego barrier" is destroyed, and the sense of "self" is lost as all of humanity's minds are melded into one "thing". All the minds need to cleanse themselves of their inner pain in order to evolve. The higher level of existence has no need for pain. This is why all of the main characters fears are laid bare for all to see.
Episode 26 is Shinji's view of Instrumentality. He wants to understand his sense of self. Remember how he began to question his existence when he was absorbed into Eva 01? He probably lost his ego boarder and the only thing that made him "cohesive" again was Misato's pleas. He had finally discovered someone to exist for, so he came back.
Shinji's Instrumentality was his "perfect world", a world with no pleasure and no pain. Shinji thought that pleasure was fleeting and hates pain enough to run away from it most of the time. Instrumentality is borderless, but Shinji didn't feel free. He had to set limitations for himself in order to have freedom. And that's the big quandry.
I'm not sure if that made enough sense or not, but it's late here.
A T h 401
EVA-Pilot
(3/30/00 12:03:08 am)
203.21.47.3
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is very nicely put.
The interesting thing i find is that it is Gendo that gives Shinji the limitation, one of Gendos few lines in ep 26.
(I havent had a evathon in a while)
ATh
Global user
(2/26/00 6:56:07 pm)
203.54.1.73
Reply | Edit | Del All Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi I really love the series and im hanging out for the movies but is there someone who can please explain what the two last episodes meant? because I was so confused I was left sitting in my chair for 10mins wondering what the hack just happened! so if anyone could please enlighten ne as to what happened I would be very appreicative!
thankyou!
A T h 401
Global user
(2/26/00 11:26:12 pm)
203.134.1.91
Reply | Edit | Del Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi there InterloperEvangelion,
This seems like a good place to begin that discussion on the last two episodes which seems to be needed. Pen2 has let us know that, like me he likes the finale and hopefully he will join in the discussion early and we can drag everyone in.
As to what happened, that was Third Impact and Shinji's experiance.
I think the best way to start the discussion would be by asking everyone what they think they understood the least (a difficult question i know), or the opposite, by asking what everyone liked the most ('liked' being a better word than 'understand').
For me, its the confrontations of each characters inner most fears, that we see the many realities that make up the one character. Misato would have to be the most prominent Character of the last two episodes, she is the furthest (i cant spell) fallen but also one of the most powerful and intergrating characters of the last two eps. (Almost like Shinji is using Her as his core, through which he can finally find his own sense of self orientation/ self image)
Please, i would love to hear everyone thoughts on this and the last two episodes. (feel free to ask me to explain what i mean- i have a bad tendancy to simply assume people know what im talking about, after all I do, lol)
Pen2
Global user
(2/27/00 11:12:22 am)
203.21.75.86
Reply | Edit | Del Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my view of the last episodes is basically this (ath has a pretty firm grasp of Qabalism [sorry if i spelt that wrong] which features rather heavily in Evangelion, so he'll probably prove me wrong on a few points )
O.k. i haven't watched 0:13 in a while so i'll probably end up editing this later but...
0:13 depicts the Human Instrumentality Project, in which the entire human race loses their "ego border" and becomes a "single form" (This is supposedly similar to when Shinji is absorbed into EVA-01) The reasons for this project are the focus of one of the sections. According to Ritsuko, the human self/form is flawed. "Our minds lack something basic" This lack is the cause of mankinds negative emotions like fear, insecurity and what have you. And so, in collating the Human Race into a single self/form, these needs are fulfilled or no longer needed (not quite sure there)
I guess i'll add the rest later. (After i re-watch the vid.) in the meantime, anyone else got any thoughts/comments/blatent errors on my part?
----"Gyaaa" -Penē
A T h 401
Global user
(2/28/00 12:14:43 am)
203.134.1.91
Reply | Edit | Del Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, i know a little about the Qabalah (which is biased towards a certain trend- Rabbis would be shaking their beards at me most of the time).
I agree with you Pen2, that Instrumentality is the evolution of all humans into one form/force. The best way for me to think of it is that this process is only the breaking down of the Personality (Netzach, Hod, Yesod and Malkuth on the Tree of Life) and the rising of Humanity to Tiphareth (which is a Unity in that it is a reflection of Kether, the Supreme ONE).
Tiphareth is also the lower point of the Individuality, or the True Ego, of which the Personality is a fragmented reflection of.
This causes me some problems as Gendo says that this is the path to becoming one with God, but attaining Tiphareth Consciousness is not the Supreme Attainment- that is Kether consciousness.
As to whether the needs are no longer there or are fullfilled, i would sit on the fence- and say a bit of both. By the human race becoming ONE there is complimentation- this One becomes like the Sun which is self supporting (it has needs but it satisfiyes these needs within itself)((also the symbol for Tiphareth is the Sun which illistrates my point))
Probably the last thing i would like to give my opinion on (for now)is that i believe that the 'something missing from the core' is the realisation of the Personality that it is a distortion of the Individuality. But here we have Platonic concepts of The One and im sure that most people stopped reading when they hit the word Netzach (but this goes to show how universal and relevant the Story of Evangelion is)
sorry for boring those who got this far but i will certainly read what ever you have to write.
A T h 401
EVA-Pilot
(3/8/00 12:45:38 am)
203.21.47.3
Reply | Edit | Del Genesis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well this may not have all that much to do with Genesis 0:13 directly but it is something i would like to hear some talk on.
For myself i have always found that the series has some meaningful turning points. For starters, the first few eps i feel very little empathy towards Shinji or Rei, they both seem a little cold.
But when Asuka arrives things seem to liven and lighten up. And the humour here is well done. For a while things are all fun and games, even though Giant Angels are attacking there is always room for a laugh.
Then the 12th Angel attacks and things are no longer as fun as they seem. In fact things grow steadily worse with each day, and even though the Angels are still being repelled the characters show signs of losing their own inner battles.
The 15th Angel takes out Asuka, the 16th takes out Rei and in a way the 17th takes down Shinji. The defining point (before the final finale) is that even though Shinji Kills the last Angel Shinji falls (emotionally)
This fall is absoulutely nessessary for one to feel for Shinji in the Last episodes. In a way Shinji is being shown as a Christ figure, one who must descend into the depths in order to redeemn not only himself, but all the Personalities he has known.
What do you think about this?
ATh
David Ikari
EVA-Pilot
(3/29/00 1:42:42 pm)
203.108.191.45
Reply | Edit | Del Genisis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the last two episodes of Neon Genisis Evangelion, it was shwoing the human instrumentality. The first was the shwoing of thebeginning of instrumentality, the second showing Shinji Ikari's instrumentality which he seemed to have succesfully passed. It is very good for a psycolohgical discussion. If any one has any questions about the meanings of any pictures then just ask. I have discussed all possible meanings with a fellow Neon Genisis lover. Meaning a lover of Evangelion.
catgirl
EVA-Pilot
(3/29/00 6:17:50 pm)
24.94.69.121
Reply | Edit | Del Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I just rewatched the entire series over two days (I always have an Eva-thon once in awhile) and I still haven't figured out the nuances of the last two episodes.
Here's what I think:
Episode 25, as others have already said, is the beginning of Instrumentality (or the Third Impact, or Complementation). The last Angel has been defeated and, according to the prophesies in the Dead Sea Scrolls, humanity will begin to evolve with the defeat of the last Angel.
Instrumentality begins by exposing the bare nerve endings of everyone's souls, which means we get to see within everyone's minds. The "higher existence" of humanity as one entity. The "ego barrier" is destroyed, and the sense of "self" is lost as all of humanity's minds are melded into one "thing". All the minds need to cleanse themselves of their inner pain in order to evolve. The higher level of existence has no need for pain. This is why all of the main characters fears are laid bare for all to see.
Episode 26 is Shinji's view of Instrumentality. He wants to understand his sense of self. Remember how he began to question his existence when he was absorbed into Eva 01? He probably lost his ego boarder and the only thing that made him "cohesive" again was Misato's pleas. He had finally discovered someone to exist for, so he came back.
Shinji's Instrumentality was his "perfect world", a world with no pleasure and no pain. Shinji thought that pleasure was fleeting and hates pain enough to run away from it most of the time. Instrumentality is borderless, but Shinji didn't feel free. He had to set limitations for himself in order to have freedom. And that's the big quandry.
I'm not sure if that made enough sense or not, but it's late here.
A T h 401
EVA-Pilot
(3/30/00 12:03:08 am)
203.21.47.3
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Genesis 0:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is very nicely put.
The interesting thing i find is that it is Gendo that gives Shinji the limitation, one of Gendos few lines in ep 26.
(I havent had a evathon in a while)
ATh