thought experiments lain - discussion:09 JOHN C. LILLY / ECCO / ROSWELL ALIEN(s)

[heart havok]

i personally found the site "thought experiments lain" definitely full of the most well researched theories of Serial Experiments Lain so i decided to create threads discussing Lawrence Eng's wonderfull descriptions on different topics. i would add my opinions, but there's not much for me to add seeing as he himself has pin-pointed my own personal theories on the series to almost perfection. where i disagree i will make note, and i will add additional opinions as time goes on.

Originally written by Lawrence Eng (http://www.cjas.org/~leng/lain.htm)

John C. Lilly

Scientist. Interested in human consciousness expansion. A friend of Wilson/Leary. Did isolation tank and drug experiments to study effects on consciousness. Famous for work on dolphin intelligence and long-distance underwater communication. Proposed ECCO.


ECCO

Earth Coincidence Control Office. John C. Lilly's model/metaphor describing an extraterrestrial/higher intelligence which determines our coincidences.



Roswell Alien(s)

Appears to Lain briefly in layer:09 "PROTOCOL".

Interpretation:

Suggests that humanity was contacted by a higher intelligence which provided us with the ability/inspiration to create what would eventually become the Wired. Either there is an alien influence that contacted us, or the "alien" was a manifestation of our collective unconscious preparing us for future evolution. The alien is the trickster figure as is commonly found in various religions. The trickster appears, but it is never clear if it is real or a part of our mind. People in altered states of consciousness have sometimes reported encounters with alien intelligences (see ECCO).

Also, in layer:11 "INFORNOGRAPHY", when she is in the doorway speaking to Alice, Lain has grey legs and hands and is dressed like the alien in layer:09 "PROTOCOL" (they both wear a "green and red striped sweater"). This scene may be hinting that Lain is of alien origin, or was created directly or indirectly (via the Wired) by a non-human higher intelligence...or that, like the "aliens", Lain is a product of our collective unconscious.

[Drizzten]

I guess this theory would partially coincide with my idea that Roswell and every legitimate alien contact we've had could be attempts to deliver this technology or attempts for Lain to be born.

(I wish I could search and find that thread I said that in...)

[heart havok]

yeah... it's a probable theory, but i'm way too in touch with the idea that Lain's visualization of the Alien is the symbolism that she herself is Alien to herself.


but this: "...or that, like the "aliens", Lain is a product of our collective unconscious." is ------' amazing. i hadn;t thought of that, but i definitelybelieve that one is grately possible as well.. though i would believe it more to be: "...or that, like the "aliens", Lain is a product of our collective SUBconscious."

my reasons for change: there are conscious {the distortion we know as "reallity"}, subconscious {surpassing the distortion, the mind within}, and unconscious {lack of conscious}

[Chikiboo]

Haa it helpe me to understand ... haa so many question I have ask to myself about the Alien is Lain without understanding why ...
Anyway what is the URL of the place where you found it ???

[Drizzten]

Havok got it from http://www.cjas.org/~leng/lain.htm

This site has extreme spoilers, be careful.

[Killjoy]

Argh! This anime makes my head explode even more now! :lol:

[Chikiboo]

Arigato Drizzten-san ^^

(Don't worry I've seen the whole serie)

[Sozotenchi]

yeah... it's a probable theory, but i'm way too in touch with the idea that Lain's visualization of the Alien is the symbolism that she herself is Alien to herself.

Well... if this series was American in nature this would make sense, for the English word "alien" has a double meaning. In Japanese there is no double meaning, the alien is literally an alien, and not a word for foreign object. I would explain her appearance as an alien to explain the alien itself. I would say the one and only alien in the anime was, indeed, Lain herself. One of the many Lains, the alien may even be the "Peeping Tom" figure, looking into the rooms of Arisu and the rest.

It's clear to me that "aliens" literally exist as embodiments of our collective unconscious, as Laurence Eng belives, and Lains appearing as an alien merely connects Lain to the collective unconscious. :)

Gee, I love this anime! :lol:

[Drizzten]

Hmm, I'm no expert on Japanese...but the idea that the word "alien" would mean a being from a planet other than your own...and something that is unfamiliar to you, seems to work for me. It certainly might not be in the Japanese dictionary definition of "alien"...but the logic seems OK.

[Sozotenchi]

Well, the way I see it, for that theory to be the intended meaning behind alien Lain, the word "alien" would have to be the western dual understanding. Everything in Lain is well placed, so I can't see a symbol of Lain not understanding her self in a dialog in which, for the first time, she embraces herself as a multi-conscious being, with multiple Lains. Seems to me like she final does understand herself, so I don’t think that theory works for me, not just because of the language reasons.

[iwakura]

Here's my personal theory/model of how the aliens fit in:

basis
Lain was a latent spirtual force that did not manifest itself in this world, until the prerequisite of sufficient critical mass of technology (the Wired) existed.

The critical mass of technology was created from reverse-engineered UFO stuff. What purpose did aliens have this technology for, unless it was to make their own planet's "lain" manifest? Or, perhaps it just accidentially happened...

For those who haven't thought along these lines before, consider if the planet earth itself had its own force of nature spirit/geia. Lain is the manifestation of this. "Grey-Lain" is the manifestation of an alien planet.

base-model
Perhaps the very fabric of space (i.e. the universe itself) has a spirit. Lain is the manifestaion of this in human-understandable terms. "Grey-lain" is the manifestation of this in alien-understandable terms. This means Lain and "Grey-Lain" are the same entity. Lain could appear on other forms as well.

sub-model (a)
In additon, humans are part of the fabric of space, so we contribute to what Lain is. Actually, its our intelligence that does the contribution, which also includes our subconscious toughts. But Lain is much more than this, because there are more than humans in the Universe, Lain also includes alien intelligence.

sub-model (c)
In addition, not only humans contribute to Lain, but every living thing (i.e. animals, plants. ...) also directly contribute to commonality that is Lain.

sub-model (d)
In addition, non-living things contribute to Lain (i.e. rocks, water in lakes, ...)

sub-model (e)
In addition, manufactured computation devices (your computer) also directly contributes to Lain. Thus, as a planet becomes more industrially developed, Lain becomes orders of magnitude stronger.

non-exclusivity
I think this intrepretation is at least consistent.

Please note that Lain is like an equation with multiple solutions. There are other equally good consistent models out there. That's one of the strong points of this series. Everyone will have a unique viewing experience.

[Drizzten]

*bumpin' for the new members*

[Daedelus]

I can see the alien both as a symbol and as a real occurence.

As a symbol I think it represents the use of the alien tech in the creation of Lain and that Lain herself is the alien "peeping tom". Then the combination is a symbol of her relizing this fact.

But could the alien simply be one of the ECCO checking in on the resident wired god. They would be the representations of their individual planets and all that those contain. Kind of a hey hows it goin'.