lain - who she really is; -=Massive Spoiler=-

[Larva]

I didn't see anyone mention this yet so I thought I would bring it up.

I just finished watching all of the lain dvd's and figured out what lain is.

lain is the second coming of Jesus.

Support other than the scene where she has dinner with her father in the sky.

lain 'sacrifices' herself for the benifit of the people by erasing her from everyones memory.

After the 'sacrifice' you notice how all the suffering and pain was gone. How the 2 MIB's were brought back to life and had completely different jobs.

The world was 'clensed' for the good of mankind.

lain's last words, 'I will always be with you'

Just a side note to prove I am not some crazy christian ;)
I am an agnostic =).

[Drizzten]

This seems to be a popular idea, but I have a problem with it.

Besides the several references to 'god' or the existence of a god, nothing is said about which religion they are referring to. I think a coincidence between the show and Christianity is simply that...a coincidence. Other religions have saviors that sacrifice themselves, have "biblical" cleansings, and describe their god and it's servants as immortal.

Also, why would Jesus (or any religious figure) need the Wired to acheive whatever goal he was looking to accomplish? And what would that goal be? To simply cleanse? There really weren't that many "bad" people in the series...and since it never deals with many people outside the main characters (no day-to-day 'worldly' perspective) you can't say the series was commenting on the moral foundry of the planet's population. Alice was fairly "pure of heart" I'd say...why erase her memory? Or the memories of the children Taro hung out with?

[Larva]

In terms of the mem wipe, it is easily explainable.

"You exist because people remember you. If noone remembers you you didnt happen, you dont exist."

Now I wasn't nessicarly meaning that she is Christianitys Jesus, but thats the one I know the most about being a White American. So the 2 pieces of the puzzle seemed to fit in that juncture.

Now why the wired? Well probally because it was something that would of lead the world to a catastrophic event, similar to what would of happened if Jesus didnt sacrifice himself. Thats my thoughts on why the wired was involved.

[Neojin]

Also, why would Jesus (or any religious figure) need the Wired to acheive whatever goal he was looking to accomplish?

Thats quite easy....that is how to reach the new breed, that is how you can reach the mind of this generation. If they dont get out, belive in religion etc how would simply "walking the earth" work?

I think this goes back to the idea that if Christ were to ever come back to earth...how many would really believe that was him? Look at the Jewish religion, they infact denied him the first time and believe he is still to come.

Out of all the Lain theories I think this one hold the most water.

[Arrrrgh]

Oh boy. You know, it's reasons like this why I'm tired of discussing even my favorite animes online. I mean, every anime worth discussion is at some point compared to the Bible and Christianity. I mean, seriously people, give it a rest. I have seen it all. Shinji is Jesus in Eva, Spike is Jesus and Faye is Mary Magdalene in Cowboy Bebop, Goku's hair is Jesus in Dragonball Z, and everyone knows the Chinese transvestite in Petshop of Horrors happens to be Jesus too. Can't you people just pick one character to be like Jesus???!!

I am so, so, so, so tired of people having to involve Western religion to every single anime they discuss. So there are a few coincidences. Hooray. I could draw comparisons to Lovecraftian horror novels and say that Lain is really Cthulhu if I worked at it. :rolleyes:

[Larva]

Well the difference here is that Lain IS portrayed as the deliverer of whatever religion you wish.

This series has very strong religious ties to it. Ignoring that fact nulls the point of the anime.

Also this isnt some discussion that was pulled out of left field. It's rather obvious that religion has a purpose of discussion here.

[omae o korosu]

Originally posted by Larva
lain is the second coming of Jesus.


personally, i dont think this is the case. first of all, jesus is god's son, not god. since this is the cause, who was god to begin with? certainly not eiri, he was only god-like.

also, jesus came to earth to save us humans from ourselves. so what was lain's pupose?

of course, this is all assuming you believe in christianity.

[heart havok]

i have already previously mentioned an idea similar to this. my suggestion was not that Serial Experiments Lain was not about "2nd coming of Jesus", but rather the simple story of Christ.

Drizzten, in reference to "why would Jesus (or any religious figure) need the Wired to acheive whatever goal he was looking to accomplish? And what would that goal be? To simply cleanse?"....

while keeping in mind the possibilities that one of the main themes to Serial Experiments Lain was the idea that some of the directives of Deus/Eiri were to "blur" the Real World and the Wired, it points highly probable that they aren't suggesting "Christ" in the relation to Christianity, but rather "Christ" in the relation to the Schumann Resonance theory of EMP.

in this theory, it is suggested that the EMP of Earth is nearing the frequency of energies that create human consciousness. And that the more humans produce, the higher these frequencies are fluctuated. Lain herself is the "Christ"-like figure in this story simply because she it the one guiding humans towards the Wired. the Wired being what would be used to Connect us humans Networkly.

and as founded quoted at Lawrence Eng's site:

"So astounding are the facts in this connection, that it would seem as though the Creator, himself had electrically designed this planet...." -- Nikola Tesla

[Neojin]

first of all, jesus is god's son, not god. since this is the cause, who was god to begin with? certainly not eiri, he was only god-like.

Actually your just refering to one type of beliefe people have. Even within the confines of Christianity there are several differnt doctrines. One such doctrine is the "Trinity", the belief that the Father, the son, and the holy ghost are one being.


Arrrrgh, i'm sorry you feel that way...but in some cases like with Eva and Lain, it is extremly obvious that the writer had some sort of religious influence. Now in no way does Shinji even remotely represent Jesus, the struggle as a whole is religious one, there is no denying that.

Lain is left for interpretation... nuff said.

[ATh]

Originally posted by Neojin


in no way does Shinji even remotely represent Jesus,




Ooohhh, i would disagree with that, the Christforce is clearly represented within the character that Shinji portrays.

ATh

[Neojin]

Now where did I put that Ten foot pole ;)

Well anyways, we would have to move that over to the Eva forum, hehe.

[ATh]

Its been done before in eva dis but few peopel are willing to put the thought into it.

But Lain herself does also take on this 'christforce' aspects.

The christforce is like this- (notice the word 'like' im not saying it IS this) we have a human being that through sacrifice brings about a joy to the world. There is also the theme of this human being the child of god, thus human and divine.

Lain is the child of the God of the Wired (whether or not Lain is that god as well is irrelevent- but akin to the christian interpretation) And she sacrifices her very existance (the memory in teh minds of others) in order to bring about a state of happiness to those she cares for.

If you are looking for a trinity in SEL then here is one

Lain the god of the Wired (not meanign the evil lain of the wired, but the higher one)

Eiri- the Demiurge

Lain- the Child of god (the human aspect)

The first two aspects are like the Father and the holy spirit-

The Father- (Lain the god) only speaks to Lain the child

The Holy Spirit - (Eiri) has contact with the disiples as well as an active role.

Finally The Son - (Lain the child)- she breaks the very boundries between the Real and the Wired ie- the bridge between the mundane and the divine. She calls to others and is seen as the manifesting Holy Spirit to most (the ignorant) (here i include the evil lain of the wired)



But keep in mind the ledgend of the Dying god is not christian by origin, Osiris- who is thought to be rather well known even before 4000ev (bce) is the archetypal Sacrificed God of which all others are but adaptions.

ATh

[Neojin]

Yeah what he said :lol:

[omae o korosu]

Originally posted by ATh
The Holy Spirit - (Eiri) has contact with the disiples as well as an active role.


no way! eiri was a false god, he had no real power. all he did was create protocol 7, and if that is all it takes to be god, well we should all be worshiping the lovely people who created TCP/IP. he made protocol 7 and could control it, but he was still just a human programmer. him having diciples would be more like him haveing his own cult following.

[heart havok]

yeah, though i agree with the majority of your other statements of possibility, i would disagree with Eiri being in there.

he is more aligned with the Christian anti-christ or something.

though i'm not saying your point isn't a possibility of course.

[omae o korosu]

i guess what you said would work, havok. eiri being "the devil". he's only presenting himself to be a god, but in reality, he's just greedy for power.

[Larva]

Actually I disagree with the jesus of the wired, remove the 'of the wired' and I agree ;)

[Nairohe]

I haven't finished the whole series... but let's take the christian parallel aside for a moment... The 'wired' is the meeting of minds where all is exposed and everything is 'completely free.'

As far as i've seen, Lain seems to be searching and finding out everyone as well. I'm not sure if i'm looking at it correctly... but if you were looking at lain from the 'wired' perspective... which is the one NOT shown... the world that they usually refer to, but never do give you any pictures of... unless i'm missing it... i'm just assuming its the net they're talking about... then it seems as if the world in which lain exists in is some kind of matrix. You do notice that everyone is laid back and lives in a dream... as far as the main characters go...

Now, if you're looking at it on the 'real world's ' perspective... this world we meet lain in where everyone seems secluded... you have bounderies... Death seems like a dream. episode 2, the one with the drug... and lain seeing that guy die... well, eheh... those girls were talking about the bloody encounter as if it were a movie...

I think this christianity parallel is just a coincidence... (thus far, haven't gone through the other episodes yet... just four so far...) It didn't strike a cord even once... when they spoke of a god, i saw it as an appriopriate referrence for the net since god is something people use to describe something that is existing, is everywhere, just is... (no christian referrence.)

[heart havok]

i will comment after you see the rest.

please do yourself a favour {and myself because it would kill me for you to have this series spoiled for you. i only pray that you haven't actually READ this thread} and AVOID ALL LAIN SPOILERS. PLEASE :(

[ATh]

Originally posted by omae o korosu


no way! eiri was a false god, he had no real power. all he did was create protocol 7, and if that is all it takes to be god, well we should all be worshiping the lovely people who created TCP/IP. he made protocol 7 and could control it, but he was still just a human programmer. him having diciples would be more like him haveing his own cult following.

Would you be surprised if i told you your ignorance has spoken some wisdom?

The Demiurge is a false god (hence the reason i chose that very term) (However its more complicated than this- the Demiurge deals with matter, its power comes from above and it acts on things below) Now Eiri gets his power from Lain the World consciousness, he acts upon that which is below.

And often myth will tell us that the demiurge often forgets where its power comes from and believes itself to be THE god (Buddist doctrines as well as Hindu have specific names for Demiurges- but i cant recall them now) This is exactly what Eiri did.

The Demiurge is greek, christianity is greek, the trinity is fairly clear in SEL.
But this does not mean i think SEL to be christian, far from it infact, these archetypes are at least 4000 years older than chritianity

ATh

[heart havok]

Originally posted by omae o korosu
i guess what you said would work, havok. eiri being "the devil". he's only presenting himself to be a god, but in reality, he's just greedy for power.

not the devil.. the Anti-Christ.

[Killjoy]

Originally posted by ATh

The first two aspects are like the Father and the holy spirit-

The Father- (Lain the god) only speaks to Lain the child

The Holy Spirit - (Eiri) has contact with the disiples as well as an active role.

Finally The Son - (Lain the child)- she breaks the very boundries between the Real and the Wired ie- the bridge between the mundane and the divine. She calls to others and is seen as the manifesting Holy Spirit to most (the ignorant) (here i include the evil lain of the wired)
ATh

I'd say that the role of The Father and The Holy Spirit could be switched, but I don' think that Lain is so much the second coming as the new kind of Jesus Plus. Not every religion necessarily says that the messiah has to be Jesus, you know. She could just be the Messiah in general, without much relation to Christ or anyone except God or God's plan.

Christianity isn't the only way, y'know ;)

[heart havok]

Originally posted by Killjoy
She could just be the Messiah in general, without much relation to Christ or anyone except God or God's plan.

Christianity isn't the only way, y'know ;)

yeah... she's leading humanity to the Shauman Resonanse.

[omae o korosu]

i suppose your right, Ath. but given what you said, what "wisdom" was spoken from my lack of thought? so i guess the answer is "yes", i am suprised that there was any sort of wisdom in that post.

and heart havok, thats what i meant by "the devil" in quotes. guess i should've clearified this.

p.s. i am attacking myself because i reread my post, i thought it was genuinly stupid. i still don't think that eiri is anymore then a human programmer.

[heart havok]

Originally posted by omae o korosu
i still don't think that eiri is anymore then a human programmer.

yeah, human programmers are always raising from the dead and stalking little 13 year old girls. :rolleyes:

[Neojin]

Don't ya just hate that? :lol:

[ATh]

Eiri was a human programmer, however from what i see

Lain- the world consciousness actually gave him the idea to upload himself into protocol 7.

thus setting himself up as the Deus (another word for the Demiurge)

He then set into motion the plans that Lain had set up from the begining.

ATh