Who would win: Vash or Spike Spiegal!!!

[ACE2001]

I have seen both of them in action and must say that they somewhat have similar fighting styles. In the end however, I feel that Mr. Spike would come out on top. Why? His hand to hand combat skills are second to none and also he has a real high tolerance for pain and would kill any villian in a heartbeat. Whereas I feel vash shows too much compation for his enemies, although he has superb gunmanship. He just seems to enjoy to make himself a target all for the sake of love and peace! Give me a break! I Think spike would wipe the floor with Vash:lol: What do you think:)

[omae o korosu]

personally, i think vash would wipe the floor with spike's ass. come on! vash can dodge bullets and stuff! so surely he can dodge one of spike's punches. and even if he doesn't, he can still take a bullet, and continue fighting. but yeah, vash won't kill, so i suppose it depends upon what you classify winning to be.

[Drizzten]

I'd just like to say that there are several times where Spike gets his ass thouroughly stomped in hand-to-hand fighting.

You have to give Vash the obvious upper hand in gunfighting. No question. You have to give Spike the upper hand in doing something unexpected. I think Vash is far quicker. I think Spike is more resourceful.

In the end...I say Vash with a gun is easily the winner...and Vash without a gun is 70/30 in his favor.

[The cruel angel's thesis]

It'd be a loooong fight.......

[Gundammi!]

I really don't see any reason they'd have to fight each other. Well unless Spike get's teleported to Trigun and goes after Vash. Well I say Spike would end up minor injured and incapacitated for the remainder of the day. Jeez this would make a screwy fanfic... :rolleyes:

[Evangelion-00]

Well I still think Vash would win the battle!!!!

[RyuKenZ]

Vash would stomp him, I mean he could dodge any bullets or punches Spike couls throw at him, plus it would be over before it started, quick draw bullet to Spike's forehead...also if it really came down to the wire, then he could turn his gun into that super weapon thingie and blow him into ashes

[Gouki Akuma]

Vash would win hands down, Spike got nothing on him sorry I'm just a Vash fan, but who isn't! :lol:

[Morbius]

As much as I hate to admit it, Vash would probably win... Spike's character is handicapped by the fact that he is more realistically human... He can't move at lightning speed and dodge bullets... Vash is more like a cartoon character... There's really no comparison...

[ACE2001]

Are you kidding me? There is no comparison? Personally, I think Spike has the overall advantage after all. I mean he heals much quicker than vash. Plus he worked with the Red Dragon syndicate. So that makes him bad as heck. I also think he is much faster than Vash! I mean, the guy moves like Bruce Lee! The only thing vash has going for him is that nifty little gun he carries. Spike would dodge those bullets in a second and would give a real good old fashion but kicking! Plus, Vash is to nice! Spike doesnt mind fighting dirty. He would use anything necesary to kill Vash. I mean Vash can bearly harm a fly without crying like a little baby!:lol: To me, Spike would be too much for Vash. And that is the bottom line, because I said so!:p
:lol:

[Gouki Akuma]

What?


Why did you ask the question then? If you think hands down Spike would win.

I think Vash would kill em if he went to far like trying to kill him no matter what. His Angel Arm has much more strengh then anything that boy could handle. Now were playing some hardball. Oh don't take any offense ACE okay I was just stating that!

:)

[ACE2001]

Now I am going to Kill YOU Gouki Akuma!:lol: No, but jokes aside, I started because I seen both of them action and I knew spike was the better man, but was curious what other people thought of it since this hasn't been posted before. And I got some good reactions to it. But back to the topic. Speaking of Vash's Angel arm, I doubt he be able to actually use that in a real fight against Spike. I mean it takes too long to set up. Plus it drains too much energy out of Vash. So his only hope or option is to try and use his little toy gun he has there because he has no actual hand to hand combat skills. He would probably cry if spike even touches him. So, What do you think about that:D By the way, does anybody else think Spike would win instead of Vash?

[Millions]

You know what...I almost wrote some big honkin three paragraph thing on my views but I think I can sum it up here: Spike would get shot and Vash would get the crap kicked out of him...it be a draw.

[Panzer]

someone made a music video of this at ax2001. it looked like vash won.... then Faye taps Vash on the shoulder and punched him out! good god the theater was shaking with cheering....
ah yes ax memories

[Bishdariel]

i have seen both series and i think that vash would win! he is not as temper as spike, remember when spike has to fight ed's father? both dont have an agressive fighting style, so someone would have to make the move and it would be spike, cause we all know that vash is a hunter for love and peace! :lol:

[Miss_Misato]

Umm...I hate to sound ignorant, but who's this Spike dude? what anime's he from?

[ACE2001]

Spike is the main character on the now infamous Cowboy Bebop Series. Trust me when I say this, Spike is has more of a killer instinct than Vash. That to me would truly determine the outcome of the match. Spike is willing to pull that trigger or do what ever it takes to get the job done while Vash likes to toy with his opponents. He won't have much time to joke around with Spike because Spike takes his violence very seriously!?!? Can't figure out what I just said there:o Well.....to me Vash is just too....laid back. That in itslef would be his downfall against Spike. That is my two cents for now. More later!

[thedarkmarine]

Originally posted by Panzer
someone made a music video of this at ax2001. it looked like vash won.... then Faye taps Vash on the shoulder and punched him out! good god the theater was shaking with cheering....
ah yes ax memories

The vid is called Tainted Donuts. It's really good. The voice sinc and everything. If you haven't seen the 2 series, you wont be able to realize it's done by some smart bastard mixing the scenes. However, Panzer's a bastard cause he gave away the ending.

[ScrewBeamoftheDevil]

Um. . . no, I think Vash would win easily. You have his mentality slightly wrong. He doesn't "toy" with his opponents. His philosophy simply forbids him from killing people. Thus he has to be more resourceful in defeating them. Sure, he acts comical when fighting some of the weaker ones, but one fighting the Gung Ho Guns with their practically supernatural abilities and weapons, he's quite serious. Sure, he winds up getting hurt, but he's hella faster than you seem to think he is. He dodged the bullets when the guy was shooting four guns at him. He got away when an an entire town was after him with missile launchers and hundreds of automatic weapons. His gun is also not a toy. He knocked a giant spinning hand off course with it. He can shoot so fast that his rounds are unloaded in what sounds like a single gunshot. Perhaps the odds are a little unfair here, being that Vash isn't human, but so far I've seen nothing indicating that Spike can move quite so fast. Sure his martial arts abilities are good when fighting his human bounties, but like I said, Vash isn't human and is insanely faster than they are. The only point I see you having is that Spike is willing to kill and Vash isn't. I don't think that's enough of an advantage, though, since I think Vash has fought much more powerful opponents than Spike and still won without having to kill them. He can still hurt Spike, disabling those legs and arms with a few swift gunshots.

~Screwy

[FayeValentine]

Hmmmmm........ Well, Spike is very determined and smart. But Vash is extremely good at gunfighting too. And, Vash is worth a whopping 60 billion dollars!!! So you bet Spike would go all out to get Vash. I think Spike would win, but I'm still not sure............. It's going to be on exciting and scewy fight! ^_^

[Renard Baines]

While Spike is quick, Vash is faster. Take the episode where he meets EG Mine. Vash was right beside him in a second, and even had time to shoot the straps on him....and EG didn't know, because he didn't hear the shots that hit his straps, due to the noise from his own weapons. To my knowledge, Spike can't move THAT fast.

[Miss_Misato]

Since I last posted (thanks to Cartoon network) I have seen Coyboy beebop, and several anime music videos concerning who would win of the 2...I personally say Vash would win, but all the evedince I've seen points to a long, drawn out battle, where eventually a chic from one of the 2 series comes along and beats the crap outta Vash...

[Stalinist]

Not that I've seen Trigun, but how exactly does Vash dodge bullets? If it's someone shooting at him and he jumps to the side, Spike's done it too. If it's the Matrixy type bullet dodging, Spike's dead, even though I'd say it's impossible. It takes the average human .91 seconds or something to see something and react when they're expecting it, so unless if he's some inhuman freak whose nervous impulses travels faster than normal, a bullet would hit him before then.

[Renard Baines]

Well....Vash isn't exactly human.

And take the example I meantioned above. Vash was across the street, with EG Mine on the other side, and when EG fired, Vash moved fast enough to fire FOUR bullets to hit the straps holding EG's equipment on him, and had enough time to place his gun under EG's chin, in a instant(almost)

That's freakin' fast.

[Stalinist]

:lol: And there's a thread pitting Spike against this dude? Come on man, if you want to compare two different main characters, compare similar universes. Spike would be littered with bullet holes even the only thing he did was dodge to the side.

[ACE2001]

Well....they are not that different. Okay so they are!:( But you got to admit it, Spike is much tougher than Vash! For christ sakes, Vash wouldn't even harm a fly if he had to. On the other hand, Spike is a ruthless bounty hunter who would get the job done by any means necessary. To me Vash just doens't seem to have enough guts to really be a threat to Spike. Spike would just wipe the floor clean with Vash. Spike uses I believe SwoardFish II fighting style. The same fighthing style Bruce Lee uses, (Correct me if I am wrong, I haven't seen Bebop in a while). Vash can dodge bullets, but I wouldn't think he would fair too well if he had to go fight hand to hand combat with Spike. All Vash has is his little gun and a little mobility. Nothing more. Okay, and the Angel Arm. I bet he wouldn't even use that if came down to the final draw. Spike has the better all-around style. He can beat you with smooth movements, style, his gun, and hand-to-hand combat. Spike is one tough cookie! I'll try to come up with some more ligitimate reasons later, my fingers are tired:lol: See you guys later!:)

[Renard Baines]

Dunno....jsut because we don't see a whole lot of Vash going hand-to-hand, doesn't mean he isn't good at it.

Take for example the episode where he was almost killed in that reactor thingy. That assassin that attacked was fast, but Vash was able to move both him AND whatshername out of the way, and proceeded to beat the guy. I think Vash has moves that can easily go up against Spike.

[Nagha's revenge]

Vash wins hands down ..
No he won't kill but once Spike is beaten he will not kill Vash with his back turned. Spike has honour something both of em share.
Even if Spike hurts Vash, he has amazing stamina. So does Spike but he hasn't taken the abuse Vash has and lived ....

Finally anyone remember the demon's eye ? That is vash. Now Spike got to take out 1 Pierrot but come on he couldn't beat 5 or was it 6 of em ... hmmm ...

And if Knives or Legato were around .... He would've been forced to use the angel arm and no amount of hand to hand abuse can stop it once it starts.

[Blues]

I personally think Vash would win. Don't get me wrong, when it comes down to it Spike would beat Vash anyday as my favorite character. But when you pit a normal human being versus Vash who is not so human, it would seem that Vash would win. Its just that Vash has that advantage of not being human. Now if Vash was completely human, then I believe Spike would definately come out on top.

[ACE2001]

I really think that wouldn't matter if Vash was human. The same result would occur.....Vash would get overpowered by Spike. Vash has no real fighting skills, just that he is good gunslinger.:lol: While on the other hand, Spike uses more than fancy guns to beat the best of his opponents. To me, it seems that Vash relies to heavily on his little gun. I would kind of wonder if he didn't have his gun or his angel arm got shot off by spike??? He would truly suffer because he is a one-dimensional fighter with no real instinct to kill. He is just too nice and modest for his own good. In the end, he lacks the killer instinct to put up a good fight against a high caliber opponent like Spike. Honestly, It probably wouldnt take 5 minutes for Spike to wipe the floor with him!!!:D I am tired....more tomorrow. Y all have good night ya here:D

[Girliegirl]

Hmm...my opinion on all this? Keep in mind that this is a chicka that has seen all 26 episodes of both Trigun and Cowboy Bebop.

Vash would win. It would be a long fight, but i believe Vash would come out on top. ^_^ Vash has the experience, resoursefullness, the inhumanly fast speed, and his gunslinging skills. Spike has all three too, except his speed is toned a bit down. And the experience...come on....30something to 133+ years? Vash with gun = one tough mo'fo. I find it hard to believe that Spike would actually have the chance to disarm Vash....and even if he does, his other gun comes into play. You can't disarm his other gun....obviously. I doubt Vash would use his Angel Arm....it's too much of a weapon of mass destruction...plus the charge time is too long to be of any use. ^_^ Spike may have the moves......but if he can't come into close range to Vash....it doesn't matter.

Plus, the killing factor doesn't come into factor. It wouldn't wind down to that anyways...because, although Spike doesn't have qualms against killing.....it's not going to wind down to that if they did have a dual. ^_^

Hehe.....Tainted Donuts happen to be one of my favorite anime music vids...btw. Anybody have the addy to the maker's website? ::googly eyes::

[So Full of Mercy]

Why is this even an argument!? Vash would take ANY gunslinger barring some supernatural or massive technological intervention. He's too quick mentally and physically for any other, even Knives. Give Spike a caster and an element of surprise and he MIGHT win.

-Vash dodged a bullet at about a foot while laying on the ground.

-Vash nailed a giant flying fist with 5 shots while it was going at least 80 mph.

-Vash leapt atop a similar speeding object.

-Vash dodges machine gun fire from multiple machine guns.

Conclusion, Vash is too damn fast for Spike to even touch him, let alone beat him. Spike flees in terror from the Plant with a plan.

[Blues]

You have to admit though, if Vash was human Spike would make quick work of him.

[ScrewBeamoftheDevil]

Vash can dodge bullets, but I wouldn't think he would fair too well if he had to go fight hand to hand combat with Spike.
He can dodge bullets, but he couldn't fare well in a hand to hand fight. How much sense does that make? Perhaps he doesn't have the mad ninja skills of Spike, but if absolutely nothing else, he could dodge all his punches until he had a chance to use his gun. AND I'm fairly sure he does have some combat ability, because as Renard stated, he beat the guy in the reactor with his blades and skill and fairly easily. Spike got beat up by Ed's dad. Vash took on superhuman opponents AND defeated them without the need to kill them. And I think you're missing a key component in all this. Just because Vash doesn't have the desire to kill his opponents doesn't mean he hasn't the capability, meaning he has both insane physical and mental control. He can think fast enough to figure out a way to defeat AND save their asses. And I don't care how good you think Bruce Lee is; Vash would have that punk callin' him daddy in five seconds.

To me, it seems that Vash relies to heavily on his little gun.

And why do you keep calling it a "little gun"? It's certainly not a Howitzer, but it's still damned powerful. It knocked a huge spinning fist off of its course. It also knocked a giant bowling ball man out of the way. AND, the similar gun of Knives blew his arm off. I don't know of many normal guns that could manage that. If someone's shot in the shoulder, the arm doesn't normally come off. What exactly are you comparing it to, here?

[So Full of Mercy]

What the heck, Vash is good cause he trains like a -----, he LEARNED to draw with such control he can catch an egg on his gun... look at Wolfwood, Wolfwood is human who trained a lot and he could take Spike cause of how much effort he put into training.

[ACE2001]

Ah.......Vash may be a superb gunman, but to me he is still lacking essential skills to take on Spike. It is not like Spike hasn't taken on the Supernatural before. He came, he saw, and he kicked butt! So, I feel that it wouldn't be any different against Vash. And Wolfwood? Ha, Spike would eat Wolfwood for breakfast! Wolfwood also falls into that one dimensional category. All about the big guns which all he has to fall back on. Tell me, what happens when he runs out of bullets? Poor guy, I feel sorry for him. Vash would fair much better against Spike than Wolfwood would.:D I'll be back for more:) My fingers are starting to cramp up on me!

[So Full of Mercy]

About running out of bullets:
1) Wolfwood has a portable ARSENAL with him.
2) Wolfwood, like Vash, doesn't miss.

Spike would never take Vash, impossible, wouldn't be even CLOSE. With Vash's speed even saying he forgot his revolver and his arm was malfunctioning he would be too damn quick for Spike.

[Blues]

I think we should start a thread about Spike vs. Wolfwood. To me that seems like it would be a better fight than a human vs. Vash.

[Stalinist]

Originally posted by Blues
You have to admit though, if Vash was human Spike would make quick work of him. True, but then Vash wouldn't have a $60 billion bounty on his head. Hand to hand Spike would win, in Asteroid Blues the guy with Bloody-eye dodged bullets with ease, but Spike still opened up a can of whoopass with his fists. Thing is, Vash can jump... really high. Spike wouldn't be able to get close enough before Vash whacked him.

This is, of course, assuming that Vash has bullets and is willing to hurt Spike.

[So Full of Mercy]

Spike got whooped by Ed's dad, need I say more?

[ACE2001]

Spike would have eventually have found a weak spot in Ed's dad so I am not too worried about that. Spike was just taking a easy on the old man....:)! I believe that Spike is more cunning than Vash and willing to take greater risks than the lone gunman! To me Vash is a little bit hesitant in battle situations, so that to me would slightly tip the scale in Spike's favor. I'll try to get back later but I am in Korea right now working at the post office, so its going to be tough trying to get to a computer everday!:) Talk to ya soon!

[Dryden-san]

No, Spike would never have beaten Ed's dad. We already know Spike is good, but Ed's dad beat him with the bare minimum of movement. Look at the fight; he just stands there while Spike is leaping around and casually bats the hits aside when they come at him-maximum efficiency of movement, the sign of a true martial arts master. (How he learned to do that, we don't know, but...:p) One of the reason I like Spike is that while he's good, he isn't the best in the Solar System, he isn't like a legendary martial artist.

Vash and Wolfwood on the other hand, are of legendary status, and no wonder; they're superhuman. Hardly a fair fight on Spike's part, although maybe he could take them in hand-to-hand combat (I don't mean both at once, though;)). Skilled as he is with a gun, there's no evidence in the series that Vash can actually fight with his fists. Wolfwood almost certainly can, and he's plenty strong besides, but I doubt he actually knows martial arts. It would be an interesting fight, especially if they get a little dialouge going back and forth.

But I want to see Vash and Wolfwood versus Pierrot le Fou. Now that's a fight!

[Shenrezade]

Spike and Vash.... I don't know. Spikes good, but so's Vash. Spike doesn't mind killing, but Vash is pretty fast. Vash, as far as I know, isn't very good at hand to hand combat, and Spike(nearly) 0\/\/|\|Z3|2Z at it. The reason for fighting would be that Spike is a bounty hunter, and Vash is a bounty. An incredibly big one, I might add. Spike is a guy that seems easy to trust, and Vash is a little on the naive side, so Spike would prey on that. So, Spike might get the drop on Vash, enabling his victory.

[So Full of Mercy]

Spike is more cunning and more willing to take risks? Have you seen Trigun? Vash figured out, within seconds that he if concentrated all his mind on pain, he could withstand hypnosis! That's cunning AND discipline! No risks? The man has duels in the midst of falling boulders, he jumps in front of concussive blasts to save people, he STRUTS towards buildings fortified with machine-gun weilding maniacs with only a revolver! He is a risk taker. You have so never seen Trigun.

Hand-to-hand skill, Vash took on an assassin with blades all over his body and did pretty well hand to hand.

[Sigurd Fatima]

In reality...Vash. Spike had too many puff dragons. :lol:

[Stalinist]

Heh, I don't call what Ed's dad did martial arts. He's built like a rock, that's the reason Spike wasn't effective. His healthiness probably comes from being on the move his entire life, unlike Spike, who lies around all day except when chasing bounties.

[Dryden-san]

I don't deny the man is built like a rock, but he is most definitely a martial artist. I'll say it again: watch the way he moves during that fight. That is not the style of flat-out brawler. He uses no unneccesary movement, and each time he strikes, he hits. This method of fighting can only be found among trained martial artists.

[Shenrezade]

I agree with Dryden. Ed's dad has obviously spent many years learning, or else there's no way he'd avoid Spike's, of all people's, punches. Spike's good with martial arts, but Ed's dad is older and much more experienced. Plus, being built like a rock helps.

[ACE2001]

Can't ya see, it was just a fluke!:D I mean spike was just givin the guy a warm up!:lol: No, but I see the point on the ED's dad situation, but my opinion still won't change however. Spike could take Vash out I am telling you. His movements to me are more fluent and smooth. Vash moves I think are very sloppy and careless at times which I believe is a result of relying on his gun too much. I don't believe that Vash has any combat skills, just that he is a great gunsman. Spike to me has better ways of attacking and destroying his opponent at will. And speaking of which, the Angel Arm wouldn't be much of a factor since Vash doesn't like using it. So, really the only weapon the Vash would use is his .45 Colt which is okay, but still not good enough. Man, my head is starting to hurt!:D I'll catch up to you guys later!

[Stalinist]

Vash relies on his gun too much? Errrr, how much of Trigun have you seen?

[ACE2001]

I have seen every episode of Trigun and that is what I see most of the time or I have bad eyes I guess?:confused: Either way, Vash would have a tough time trying to actually get a decent shot off at Spike. And I can't wait till he runs out of bullets. Poor guy. He can't juke and jive from Spike's moves all day long. All Spike needs is one good kick to the head of Vash and it is over! Complete victory!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol: :lol: Excuse me, I have gone a little mad. I'll come back when I have regan consciousness.:)

[Shenrezade]

Have you forgotten how much experience Vash had with his gun? He'd plug both of Spike's arms with one shot so he couldn't move them so fast Spike would have a delayed reaction time.

The reason he moves so sloppy is because he knows that he'd stand out too much if he didn't act sloppy. Plus, do you think Spike could have perfectly calculated richotting a bullet off his shoe sole to cut some ropes while he was running down a hill? I said earlier why Spike would win, but if it were a straight fight, Vash would win, hands down.

[So Full of Mercy]

Sloppy? Dude, I'm still thinking you haven't seen the series. Vash richocetted a gun off a post into a saxophone while his arm was being stepped on!!! Spike would be disabled before he was done drawing his gun. Spike ain't gonna dodge a bullet, let's compare similar situations.

-Spike invades Vicious' "base" and has to use explosives and trickery to make it to Vicious and is severely wounded.

-Vash takes on the Badlads (or whatever BDN's was called), in CLOSED quarters and manages to get through uses his gunslinging ability. When you've trained with a gun for several decades to a century or however long it was, you can afford to rely on it.

[Stalinist]

Exactly, Spike is really good... for a normal human. That doesn't mean he stands a slight chance against Vash. Also, Vash's gun is really good, it can fire off half a dozen bullets in under a second. The guns in Cowboy Bebop have a horrible fire rate, almost a second apart. The duel would essentially be Spike fires, Vash dodges, before Spike shoots again Vash empties bullets in Spike.

[So Full of Mercy]

So if we were voting right now, it'd be what?

Vash: 30
Spike: Ace

[GiZMO]

i had a debate thing like this in my info on aim.

[ACE2001]

Come on, there has to be at least one other person who would think that Spike would win?:confused: :heh: That's okay, I am sticking with my guy Spike. He badder than Vash will ever be. Just because Vash isn't human doesn't me anything. Spike would kick his butt! It seems to me that some people are in denial here! I know somebody agrees with me? I'll be back to see if i find anybody who sides with me. Whoo I would have never imagined that it would be this lopsided!:)

[Shenrezade]

I already said I thought Spike would win because Vash's a little naive and Spike's an easy guy to trust. Spike'd plug him after he had earned Vash's trust.

[Nagha's revenge]

Originally posted by Shenrezade
I already said I thought Spike would win because Vash's a little naive and Spike's an easy guy to trust. Spike'd plug him after he had earned Vash's trust.

Cute ...

Spike would never do such a thing. Now Ace I think would back me here Spike is not a backstabber. Spike would also only try to win in a 'fair' fight. Of course Spike and Vash's definition of fair is different. This is something Spike would never do.

[So Full of Mercy]

Even if Spike was using explosives, Vash would still clock him. Vash's speed is unmatchable, I still don't see how Spike even has a case here. Wolfwood and Spike would be a better match, and I think Wolfwood would win that one too.

[Shenrezade]

If Spike were after the bounty on Vash's head he might. And maybe he would'nt kill Vash, just wing him. I don't know, it's been a while since I've seen CB. I'll just have to watch it again. *sarcastically*Oh, woe is me!!

[Stalinist]

Wolfwood vs. Spike, I'd still say Wolfwood wins. He gets a ton of bad guys in the quick draw tournament without even getting wounded. Spike gets a ton of bad guys in the syndicate and hmmm, gets shot, slashed, hit with a throwing knife... errr, yeah, Wolfwood would win.

I don't see how there's a competition either... come on guys, there is nothing Spike can do... whatever Spike shoots, Vash dodges. Vash can jump five meters away, draw his gun, pull off five shots perfectly executed, and knock a giant spinning fist off course. All that in under a second, all perfectly on target. Spike can't dodge that whether you want him to or not. He's not sloppy or naive, he just acts scatter-brained.

[So Full of Mercy]

Yeah, Spike's slick, but he ain't slick enough to dodge a guy who can throw a rock into two ropes, cutting them, while he's rolling down a hill.

[ACE2001]

Spike not slick enough huh? Come on, Spike is a bad ass (excuse my vulgar language):) After all he did work for a ruthless crime syndicate, so I do believe that he would have some slickness towards him and if he was in a serious fight with Vash, Vash wouldn't be able to sink as low as to Spike's level. Y'all forget that Spike fights down and dirty, especially when there is money on the line...$$60,000,000,000 dollars to be exact!:) For that kind of money, I guarantee you that Spike would think of any conceivable way to beat Vash. Vash may be somewhat smarter than Spike, but Spike is the better all around fighter to me! Woo, I am just warming up!:lol: I'll talk to you guys later!:D

[So Full of Mercy]

Vash took out the Gung Ho Guns, you don't get much more ruthless than that... they use people as human shields, not caring if they live or die! Spike isn't that ruthless.

[ACE2001]

Spike isn't ruthless?:confused: I don't know about that statement. After all we are talking about a guy who worked with Vicious, one of the ruthless killers on the face of the planet. Then, Spike took on the killing machine Mad Pierrot...So I believe that Spike is just as ruthless and cunning as Vash!:D

[VPAM]

i would hope that spike would win :)

Vash isn't invincible like everyone makes him out to be. he gets shot/"hit by something else" a large number of times from what i can recall (finished watching bout 30 min ago).
In my mind vash hesitates sometimes and against spike I think that would be critical.

[So Full of Mercy]

Vash hesitates too much? He was able to dodge bullets at point blank range from someone who warps time through hypnosis!! He's not invincible, but he's way more invincible than he needs to be against Spike. Spike simply can't stand up to a man that can shoot 6 times and make it sound like a single shot! If we compare Spike's speed to a rabbit, Vash is a Ferarri.

[Stalinist]

The only time Vash hesitates is when bystanders' lives are in trouble, and he tries to think of a way to save everyone. This is a no brainer guys, the best Spike's demonstrated is something Vash could beat while barfing from drinking three gallons of liquor.

[So Full of Mercy]

Good show, Stalinist.

[ACE2001]

Oh come on guys. We are talking about Vash....a guy who almost got killed by a saxophone player!:lol: And you are saying that Spike can't win?:confused2 Spike would beat that guy to a bloody pulp with his bare hands!

[Stalinist]

You honestly think Spike could do something against the Hornfreak? How much of Cowboy Bebop have you seen?

[ACE2001]

Actually, I have seen all of Cowboy Bebop and Trigun. Don't make excuses for Vash. He just got his butt-whipped by a saxophone player!:lol: Nothing Extra-ordinary about him, just that he had a unique saxophone. If it were Spike fighting him on the other hand, he would have immediately took out that little toy of his and then quickly disposed of him with his Swordfish II skills. If it wasn't Knives who wanted to keep Vash alive, he would have been dead. Poor guy. I am now starting to believe that Spike would win outright against Vash. After all, if Vash almost lost to a guy with a saxophone, what makes you think that Spike doesn't have a shot at all?:)

[Stalinist]

I don't even know where to begin. I never made an excuse for Vash. There's no way Spike could take out the Hornfreak unless if he used the Swordfish, and if you start talking about the Swordfish vs. Vash, then it becomes no holds barred. Vash is smart enough to build a fighter way more kickass than anything the Swordfish could accomplish.

[ACE2001]

Ah man...Vash has no real Hand-to-hand combat skills. Not that I have seen anyway. All he is just a fancy show-off. Spike would wipe off that goofy looking smile that Vash always have. And believe me, Swordfish fighthing style would win out against Vash. No contest! I am really starting to enjoy this.:lol: :D

[Shenrezade]

Waitaminute, waitaminute!! Your saying Spike, in his jet, which is equipped with a particle cannon(okay, not really, but I like particle cannons), against Vash, with his gun which is capable of becoming the angel arm, which can blow a hole in the moon? Vash will never use that weapon if he can help it, or unless it has a use aside from destruction(i.e. canceling out another A.A. blast) Isn't this a little lopsided, here?

[Stalinist]

Rewatch episode 6, Vash dodges the assassin with a million knives so easily it's not even funny. Assuming Spike is 10 times better than the guy, which I doubt, Vash could still dodge any punch Spike threw.

[ACE2001]

That guy you are talking about was very careless and sloppy, something Spike is not. I guarantee you that Spike wouldn't be that careless!:) After further thinking.....I still believe Spike would win. It would be close, but Spike would pull out all the stops to beat Vash. Vash is just too pure-hearted. I don't think he would have enough guts to kill Spike anyway. Vash is too soft if you ask me.

[Densetsu Vash]

You dont know if Vash can't fight. He kicks a couple times, he jump kicked that one dude the the blades on his arms and legs, also dodged all the slices while holding onto a girl. Vash wouldnt kill Spike, just injure him, since he can't kill after all. He could dodge bullets easily, Spike's punches are not faster than bullets, so anything thrown at Vash could be dodged. The reason Vash was beaten pretty badly was due to Vash trying all he could to protect those people controlled by Legato. You seen how he was throwing himself infront of the b flats waves to protect those people. Vash was worn out from that, so he couldnt really fight back as well as he would of. He wouldnt have killed the Midvalley, but hey could definatley stop him.

[Densetsu Vash]

And also, I do recall Spike having trouble with those people in that building when coming after vicious in the last episode, Spike was shot and almost killed several times. Vash could avoid thousands of people, no matter how many you put on him and not even have to pull a single bullet. Spike is cool and all, but him beat Vash? :lol:

[So Full of Mercy]

Vash has multiple times dodged machine gun fire coming from multiple machine guns, how do you even think Spike can match that?

[ACE2001]

Come on, give credit where credit is due. Spike took out the entire syndicate by himself, plus he trains under the Bruce Lee Martial Arts style, so I believe that he could be just as quick as Spike.

[Renard Baines]

"Spike took out the entire syndicate by himself"
---
Ah, but he did get shot up doing that.

Where as Vash avoided an entire town, using assorted weaponry, without getting hit once, or firing a single shot(well, except for that giant guy....)

[ACE2001]

Spike only got shot like in the arm I believe (can't remember :( ) but the thing is he was a one man army. So, with that in prespective, I know that Spike can win against Vash. He just has too many things go for him. Spike has taken on the supernatural, mad-bombers, ship-hackers, dog-natchers, environmentalists and has lived to tell about it :lol: Except for the last part. Spike has no problem with handling the Big Fries!:lol:

[So Full of Mercy]

Vash has taken on larger groups of people than there were in the Syndicate, without using bombs and still came out less scathed than Spike. Spike died.

Vash takes on the supernatural all the time as well as giant cyborgs, gangs (sometimes unarmed!), and God knows what else. Vash lived against greater adversity, Spike died against lesser. Vash wins hands down. Hell, Wolfwood would take down Spike effotlessly.

[Densetsu Vash]

Wolfwood, that was a good point and all, but you sorta gave away what happened to Spike to anyone who hasnt seen the ending of the show, perhaps you should put a spoiler warning in it or something :lol: . But yes, Vash has taken on a whole lot of people more skilled than what Spike calls "Big fries". Listen, I know he may train in a Bruce Lee style fighting, aka Jeet Kune Do, but no where does it say he is as good as Bruce Lee, not that I have heard of so far. Hell, even Bruce Lee can't punch faster than bullets, and if Vash can dodge bullets, a fist much slower than a bullet should definatley be of no problem. And who said Vash can't fight? I truly dont think the fight would be a close match. Vash would be too much of a "Big Fry" for Spike to handle. :cool:

[So Full of Mercy]

Shoot Millie or Meryl would be enough for Spike to try and handle.

[Gouki Akuma]

Go Mercy been awhile since I seen you posting and its good to be back. I agree, Spike has a small chance, but again Hunters have tried it but he is one guy in red you cant get.

[ACE2001]

Sorry about the spoil thing, wasn't quite thinking there! Y'all act like Spike would be a pushover for Vash. That ain't happening I am telling ya! And to compare Milly and Meryl to Spike? What is that all about....Spike is not one of those goofy Villains that Vash fought, he is a real contender that can actually take him down if need be. Vash is not immortal or a god. True he is superhuman, but like Spike, he feel real pain, so Vash doesn't have an out right victory against Spike. If anything that I would probably agree on is that the match-up would be almost even with Spike comming out on top by a narrow margin. Not by much now. And Wolfwood? Oh please! Spike tougher than you all give him credit for...Milly and Meryl:lol: This is getting interesting. I shall return!:)

[So Full of Mercy]

Yeah goofy villains like Knives... or Dominique the Cyclops... or Monev the Gale... ----, Rei Dei woulda been enough for Spike since apparently a loser with a katana is enough to kill his ass even when he's packin' a damn gun. How many of Spike's enemies could've made it as a Gung Ho Gun? MAYBE Vicious, but I doubt it.

[Densetsu Vash]

Look, Spike did get beaten by someone with a katana, a sword. A gun is a long range weopon, Vash would have no problem against someone like that, but Spike did. Spike WOULD be a pushover against Vash. Spike is pretty good, and a pretty good fighter, but he cannot defeat Vash. Vash has beaten people that could have taken Spike out in a second, without killing. but I do disagree that Meryl and Milly could take out Spike.

:lol:

[So Full of Mercy]

Yeah, but Meryl and Millie are a lot closer to Spike's level than Vash. Wolfwood would rock Spike's world too.

[ACE2001]

Spike can't be Vash.........no! I wil not believe that.:D Look man Spike ain't no pretty boy like Vash. He his down and dirty and straight to the point. Vash likes to do to much flash which show some sloppiness in his techniques as a gunman. Dominque the Cyclops I believe exploit a little bit of his weakpoints. Have to watch that episode again though. Vash could have been beaten on several occations. The only thing was that neither of the gung-ho guns could kill him because Knives wanted Vash specifically alive. Vash is not this superhuman beast that y'all guys keep talking about. He can be beaten by Spike on any given day. You know the truth. Give my boy some credit will ya?:lol:

[So Full of Mercy]

When Spike can nail a speeding target with 5 bullets all within an inch of each other and have his gun sound like it is only firing one shot, I will give him some credit.

Vash is a pretty boy? Have you seen his body? If Spike fought Dominique, he would be dead... hypnotism, gun to the head, brainless. Spike has absolutely nothing up on Vash... Spike is slower, a lesser marksman, and less durable. I would give Spike 1 minutes with any Gung Ho Gun before he died, Vash survived everyone he faced. It didn't seem like Monev or Dominique cared if Vash was left alive or not... nor did it seem like Cain cared.

[Densetsu Vash]

Knives didnt say that about Vash coming back alive. Knives knew for a fact that Vash would win, Knives just wanted to cause a lot of pain in Vash's life. Even the first gung ho gun was supposed to kill Vash. Legato told Monev to kill Vash. Knives planned this ahead, because that dude has been doing physical training for 20 years, but he knew Vash would defeat him.

[ACE2001]

I believe Knives was assuming that Vash would win. In his own words "Vash, you are a wimp!" So, I don't think that Knives thought his brother could withstand all the punishment, so he told some of his henchmen to show mercy to Vash.

[So Full of Mercy]

Umm... Knives sees Plants as grossly superior to humans, Vash was a Plant, therefore he knew he could beat ANY humans, even humans with special talents.

[Densetsu Vash]

No, Knives did not assume, he knew Vash could beat them. Knives meant Vash was a wimp due to his feelings for others, not because of his ability. None of the gung ho's show mercy, they all were there to kill. From first to last, it was to kill Vash or cause him pain for all eternity, which is why they shoot themselves after failing their mission, to make Vash feel the guilt that he could not save them.

[ACE2001]

Yeah, I hear ya....but still he could have been beaten on several occasions nevertheless. Vash is a plant and Spike doesn't seem to be the humanitarian type. I honestly believe that Spike can win this match-up. Not impossible. The way you guys build it up, seems like Spike is at a disadvantage from the get go which is not true. I believe that he matches up pretty nice with Vash. I wonder if there is a fan-fic on this? Anyways, there shouldn't be any reason why Spike would loose quickly. Hmm....I have to really think some more arguments, but I just posted to say that I am not giving up on my boy Spike! He is just as down and dirty as the rest of them!:) Talk to ya later.:D

[So Full of Mercy]

Spike DOESN'T match up, as soon as Spike presents himself as a threat, there are two shots. Vash nailing Spike's weapon, Vash drilling either Spike's knee, thigh, stomach, or shoulder. Depending on how cool Spike THINKS he is (he is full of himself), there could be a few more shots... Spike pulls another weapon, Vash shoots it out of the air and Vash makes damn sure Spike isn't going to move again by shooting a few more extremities. Vash takes Spike to the hospital and sends him "Get Well" donuts.

A slightly better matchup is Spike vs. Wolfwood, but since Wolfwood is ALMOST as good as Vash and doesn't care if he kills people, Spike dies in a mighty blast of a machine gun.

Spike would have a DECENT fight with Gene minus Gene's caster, they are pretty even in skill, that could go either way.

[Gouki Akuma]

Well done. -people clap- this is true and it would be quite funny to see as well. Then Wolfwood would some how come over and light his cigarete off of him. haha, j/k but in truth Spike would be a match. This is it though a match nothing more. You couldnt defeat Vash like that. No he isnt a a god but he is clearly better

[ACE2001]

Clearly better? All because he has the Angel Arm and couple of moves? I believe it is good matchup. I guarantee you that Spike would win. Vash holds back too much while Spike just lets it all hang out. Vash is too soft. Man, give my boy something!:D Talk to you later.

[Densetsu Vash]

Spike IS at a disadvantage. Spike shoots people 10 feet away like 4 times just to kill them in last sundays episodes. Vash could disarm anyone from a LONG ways away....with one bullet. Wolfwood aint really all that close to Vash as would be thought, Mercy, although he would possibly beat Spike. Spike isnt all that great when you think about it. He gets badly hurt all the time, even when being able to kill. Vash doesnt get THAT badly hurt and he goes up against a lot more people, a lot stronger people, and he still manages to win without killing. Spike couldnt do that WHILE killing.....

Still, Spike is pretty cool. I am giving him as much credit as I feel he deserves. He just aint up to what Vash is, not because Vash is a plant, but due to the areas or skill. Being a plant dont make him automatically the best ace gunman around, he does practice a lot. :cool:

[So Full of Mercy]

If Vash is a 10, Wolfwood is a 9.9... Spike of course being a 5 or 6, maybe 7. Wolfwood is nearly a match for Vash in marksmanship pinpointing those robots with the REALLY small sensors, Wolfwood's speed is close to Vash's he flips that giant cross punisher around with amazing speed for such a large instrument and let's not forget the quickdraw tournament. Vash would dispose of Spike with little effort and Wolfwood could do the same with slightly more effort. You tell me one reason you think Spike's skill is even CLOSE to Vash's? You show me one feat that Spike has ever done that Vash could not pull off in half the time. Denetsi, Gouki, I'm a little ashamed that you're believing the hype of this madman. After a few more posts and a more, "C'mon, give my boy some props!" you'll be heralding Spike as the undisputed gunslinging god.

[ACE2001]

Madman eh, Okay I deserve that one.:D Spike is not at a complete disadavantage, true he is not as good with a gun as with Vash, but he still has other unique skills that I have stated in previous posts that I would believe would match up well with Vash the Stampede. Vash is not unstoppable, he has flaws just like every other good hero.:) Spike has went up against bloodthirsty killers and came out top most of the time. He was at a disadvantage against Mad Pierrot (misspelled :( ) but still he came out and fought against him and won. Which to me speaks volumes because Mad Pierrot would be Vash hands down. So Vash has some quickness towards him, So does Spike. The match-up wouldn't be a clear landslide, just a close victory for Spike, really close!!!! To me, Vash is missing that killer instinct that Spike has. To me, in a close matchup of this magnitude, Vash would end up being to cautious and would lose because of his kindess and policy of not to kill anyone. The madman has rambled enough!:lol: Talk to you guys later!

[So Full of Mercy]

Everyone Vash has beat has wanted to kill him, with the possible exception of BDN. Spike's killer instinct would mean nothing to Vash, not only would Vash take Spike down, but he'd probably have Spike crying about how he was going home to his mother and tell her he was sorry about some transgression they'd have 10 years ago... Vash is not only a gunslinging comedian human disaster, he's also a counselor. :D

[Gouki Akuma]

Look at Spike a man. Keyword was man. Yes a truly good bounty hunter but you dont wander around 132 years avoiding death by hundreds of bounty hunters and the best fighters on the planet without learning something. Sure Vash has to be his smart allec self butt when it comes down to it and he has to fight he can very well as key from the 2 episode. Even the first when he played with that 12 boy like some pudding or something.

[Densetsu Vash]

Contains some spoilers of Cowboy Bebop and Trigun









::Coughs:: I do recall Spike having troubles with pierrot, hey Im just spelling it the way he did, hell if I know how to spell it either. The only reason Spike won was because of that cat. You dont know if Pierott would beat Vash. I doubt he would, Pierott relies on guns, Vash can dodge those bullets with ease. Plus, the angel arm, even though I doubt that would be of use. And Even with the cat, Spike didnt kill Pierott, the robot did! SFOM, I am ashamed that you think I believe his "Hype" I am just saying I think Spike is pretty good.. but no where near a match for Vash. Wolfwood isnt that great compared to Vash, as a friend of mine, Gouki, has mentioned to me that Wolfwood only a little better than Chapel, who Legato owned. Knive's owns Legato, and Vash beat him. I dont think Wolfwood would have much of a chance against Knives, let alone Legato. But, I think Wolfwood is better than Spike. Spike has come out on top of the fights he has been in, Pierott due to the cat, and he has been shot and injured quite a bit as well, with no bounty. Vash has come against people that would make short work of Spike, without killing, as said before. Spike has to kill, and he STILL gets shot. Killer instinct, HA! Knives has a killer instinct and he was still defeated by Vash, and if Spike met Knives, chances are Knives would kill him by shooting him, make Spike shoot himself, or use his powers and send him to that place between being alive and dead.

[ACE2001]

There is no question that Spike would lose against Knives, I wont even debate that one, but Spike does have a fair shot against Vash however. Vash for some reason doesn't like to use the pyschic powers that were given to him, otherwise he would have healed up all of his scars on his body. Plus, Vash through time, was learning how to be more human, so I believe that he lost about I say 1/4 of his true power. 75% is still great for him though. So Vash a god, no, just another great superhero!:D I'll be back!:)

[Densetsu Vash]

Listen.... (Spoilers of Trigun and Cowboy Bebop)











Vash defeated Knives, if Spike can't defeat Knives, what makes you think he can beat Vash? Pierott wasnt a god, and Spike got beaten up badly the first time and won the second time due to luck. What makes you think that because Vash isnt a god he cant defeat Spike easily? Spike isnt that great at all... Not even worth Vash's time.

[Stalinist]

Holy crap two more pages since last I came. Okay, I'm not going to bother reading all that...

[So Full of Mercy]

Right. Wolfwood would spank Spike.

[Stalinist]

(off topic because somehow I doubt anyone is going to be convinced)

I'm from OK too...

[ACE2001]

Because, Vash seemingly doesn't like to go all out in a battle or use the potential power that he has because he is somewhat trying to adapt human traits, so therefore IMHO, he lost some of his true skills. You have to admit though, Pierrot is better than Vash. I mean Vash's bullets wouldn't probably penetrate Pierrot's Force field, so where does that leave Vash. He has the angel arm, but that probably wouldn't work against Pierrot because of the type of barrier that he has around him. To me, compared to the Pierrot battle, I think Spike has a good chance to win. If he defeated Pierrot "the perfect killing machine" why doesn't he have a chance against Vash?:) I am just curious. Talk to yall later!:D

[Densetsu Vash]

Ace, you dont listen at all, do you? :lol: If Vash's bullets wouldnt penetrate his field, what would make Spike's bullets do any better? After all, Vash's gun is a lot more powerful that an ordinary handgun, one that Spike usually uses. You dont know if his gun wouldnt penetrate it. The angel arm not penetrate the field? Rofl, his angel arm put a hole in the moon, and could have possibly destroyed the entire world, had it been a direct hit. His field, I doubt, could handle a weopon that did that to a moon, it put a VISIBLE hole, you could see it all the way up there. Pierott's can handle explosions that would destroy buildings, I am sure, buit imaging the type of impact the Angel arm had to do so much damage all the way on a planet, and put a whole in a moon FAR WAY above him. And, Spike have a chance against Pierott? He got his butt kicked the first time, and nearly was killed the second time, had it not been for the cat.

[ACE2001]

I do listen....sometimes.:D But Spike still won the fight against Pierrot. Doesn't matter if he got his but kicked probably throught some of the scenes, in the end he prevailed against a very dangerous opponent, no matter how you slice it. I never said that Spike was immune to pain or invincible. I just said that in the end, he has a little more guts than Vash when it comes down to the final blow, that's all. Spike I admit would probably have a little bit of trouble in the beginning....well not really because fought someone just as better as Vash. And won!:) Well I am off to listen to my new Cowboy Bebop Movie OST, Talk to you guys later!:)

[Densetsu Vash]

I already said this, what makes you think Pierott is better than Vash? Spike has more guts, well, it may seem he does cause he has no will to live anyways, but just because Vash doesnt want to kill dont mean he dont have as much guts as Spike. Spike won, but he would have died had it not been for the cat. I know Pierott couldnt withstand Vash's angelarm, and who knows if his gun wouldnt go through the field, it is more powerful than an ordinary hand gun.

[So Full of Mercy]

If not his revolver, then maybe his arm cannon/machine gun. You can't compare that though, since we don't see a similar incident in Trigun. We do see similar instances when Spike attacks Vicious in the church... he ends up in a bodycast, Vash fights in countless closed-quarters situations and comes out unscathed.

[Gouki Akuma]

:heh: when was the last time I posted on this?

[So Full of Mercy]

Right before I called you insane.

[Gouki Akuma]

thats not nice, now you gone and made me. Ok nvm, Knives would beat them both :D

[So Full of Mercy]

'Cept Vash already beat Knives.

[ACE2001]

First I would like to say Happy New Year to everyone! I have beeen pre-occupied lately! Thought I have given up on this or you really don't care?:D I have been studying CB and Trigun and I still believe that Spike would win the decisive bout. But before I explain, I just have to gather my information correctly!:) Again, I wish everyone a Happy New Year and this is the year where everyone is going to shine!

[Psyk0]

Here's my little bit.

Vash would win. Vash can dodge bullets after they've been fired. He can frickin push bullets off course from 50 feet away with pebbles and make that bullet go where he wants it to go. So what if Spike has skills, he's just not powerful or fast enough. Vash can leave him KO'd pretty quick. Even if he can't dodge punches even though he can dodge bullets, he's got 2 guns that he can use. One being a machine gun. Spike doesn't stand much of a chance. If Spike ever got close to Vash to use his mad martial arts skillz on him, Vash could just point his left arm at him and kill him or maim him enough. Spike stands no chance. Vash isn't human. Spike has lost to humans.

[Densetsu Vash]

Vash would not kill Spike. He would beat him easily enough, yes, but not kill. Have you forgotten the no kill policy?

[Psyk0]

I find it hilarious how Ace constantly says that Spike would barely edge out, yet gives no reason for it other than that he's got killer instincts and ruthlessness and all. He completely ignores the fact that Vash is much much much faster, a much better shot, and can dodge basically any bullet fired by Spike. He gives no reason at all. I mean, at least explain why you think that Spike, despite being much slower and worse marksman than Vash, can defeat Vash. Don't just say that he's got a killer mindset. A baby who wants to kill can't defeat a football player that doesn't want to kill.

[ACE2001]

Psyk0, I have stated plenty of good reasons why Spike would beat Vash. I believe that they are actually good reasons. Just backsurf a little. Vash does have weakpoints. He's not perfect by a long shot as everyone is seeming to make him. He's just a plant so to speak. He can feel pain just like Spike can. Spike has excellent agility and fighting skills, plus he good gunmanship skills as well. And he's been doing this with one good eye, so don't throw anything against Spike. He could handle his own against Vash. :) I'll be back to rant some more.:D

[Psyk0]

Originally posted by ACE2001
Psyk0, I have stated plenty of good reasons why Spike would beat Vash. I believe that they are actually good reasons. Just backsurf a little. Vash does have weakpoints. He's not perfect by a long shot as everyone is seeming to make him. He's just a plant so to speak. He can feel pain just like Spike can. Spike has excellent agility and fighting skills, plus he good gunmanship skills as well. And he's been doing this with one good eye, so don't throw anything against Spike. He could handle his own against Vash. :) I'll be back to rant some more.:D

Now I'm SURE you're just joking. I suspected it after your 100th post stating that Spike would win while giving no hard evidence, but now I know. Stupid me for even trying to argue with someone who knows that he's wrong.

But in case you're NOT joking, you haven't provided any hard evidence. All you said was that Spike would win cuz he can fight well and he's a badass. Completely ignoring the fact that Vash is much much much stronger.

[Renard Baines]

Oh my....this thread's STILL going?

Even though I know I won't convince you, I'll give my two coppers.

Against Pierrot, Spike barely won, and that was because of a stupid cat, and a big walking parade machine....He should've died there.

Anyways, while Spike has some mad skillz hand to hand, his aim is poorer than Vash's. So guns are out. Vash would simply disarm Spike with his gun. So now it's hand to hand.

Hand to hand, Vash will still win. Even though Spike has mad skillz, he cannot match Vash's speed.

I remember, vaguely, referring once in this thread to a scene where Vash faces off against that big ball guy(can't remember his name). They were on each side of the street. Vash's opponent fires at him. In the split second that the projectile crosses the street, Vash fired not one, not two, not three, but FOUR(at least I thought it was four....might even be more....) bullets! Also, he was able to cross the street, and place his gun under the guys chin. The glass from the broke window that was behind Vash wasn't done falling yet.

Spike cannot move that fast, or shoot that fast. So in speed, Vash wins.

Now, you might say, with Spike's mad martial arts skillz, he would beat Vash's ass. Now then, recall the episode where Vash is trapped in the generator of that power station. The assassin that attacked also had mad martial arts skillz. But he could NOT touch Vash, even when Vash was busy moving a girl out of the way, and was able to EASILY dispatch the guy. So in hand to hand, Vash wins.

Killer instinct? Means absolutly nothing. Especially when one is dealing with someone so determined to save everyone.

[ACE2001]

Knows that I am wrong eh?:D Spike barley won against Pierrot. So what...The fact was that he went up against a supernatural being that in my opinion is worse that Vash and still won. I believe that Spike expertise in the Brue Lee fighting style is much more fluent and faster than Vash's hoping around. Don't get me wrong, Vash is a strong fighter, but not what you'll are making him to be. Sure he beat up a couple of dumb bad guys, I mean they were in actually no match for Vash. Spike has more since than most of the villans put together within the Trigun series. Vash is powerful, I am not taking that away from him, but he would have his hands full with Spike! Spike is a cunning sun of a gun! Just ask Andy about that!:lol: Okay, well I'll talk about this later! Glad I am able to rant about this:)

[So Full of Mercy]

Spike has sense? He ate a strange mushroom that was just sitting out like a pile of birdseed in a roadrunner cartoon. ED out-foxed Spike... that is not cunning in my book.

Brue Lee martial arts are not faster than Vash! Spike cannot dodge machine gun fire, that is evidence enough.

[Shenrezade]

On Spike's behalf, he was hungry when he ate that mushroom. If I were dying of hunger and I saw a mushroom, I'd probably eat it, too. Anyway, Vash could outshoot Spike, but Spike might possibly be able to beat Vash in hand to hand combat. The difference between Spike and mask-boy, is that Spike doesn't rely on rushing in and trying to pummel the crap out of a guy. He lets them come to him and then knocks them silly. He said his martial art style is like water, and it does seem pretty effective. But since Vash probably wouldn't let Spike get that close(and I also doubt Vash would charge in headlong in a fist-fight, either) Vash would probably win.

[Psyk0]

Originally posted by ACE2001
Knows that I am wrong eh?:D Spike barley won against Pierrot. So what...The fact was that he went up against a supernatural being that in my opinion is worse that Vash and still won. I believe that Spike expertise in the Brue Lee fighting style is much more fluent and faster than Vash's hoping around. Don't get me wrong, Vash is a strong fighter, but not what you'll are making him to be. Sure he beat up a couple of dumb bad guys, I mean they were in actually no match for Vash. Spike has more since than most of the villans put together within the Trigun series. Vash is powerful, I am not taking that away from him, but he would have his hands full with Spike! Spike is a cunning sun of a gun! Just ask Andy about that!:lol: Okay, well I'll talk about this later! Glad I am able to rant about this:)

This is EXACTLY what I mean. He doesn't provide actual hard evidence on purpose, just for fun. He keeps talking about how Spike is much stronger than the normal human, while not comparing him to Vash at all. Because he knows that the belief that he's supporting is wrong; he's just trying to have fun.

It doesn't matter THAT Spike beat someone. It matter HOW Spike beat someone. If Spike had proven his speed and skills by taking down Mad Pierrot hand-to-hand, he'd be a challenge for Vash. But if he got lucky, well, that's lucky. If you actually wanna prove a point, COMPARE teh two characters. Show how Spike's "Bruce Lee" fighting skills make Spike superior to Vash's much much much greater speed and marksmanship. Guns are mostly ineffective against Vash. Explain how Vash, who can dodge multiple bullets at once would lose to a HUMAN with good martial arts skills. You keep talking about how great Spike's "Bruce Lee" skills are. Do you suggest that Bruce Lee himself could take down Vash?

[Renard Baines]

You cannot beat what you cannot touch. Vash is like the master of avoiding attacks....the only times he actually gets shot up is against supernatural characters. Spike often gets shot up by normal humans. So if Vash can easily dodge bullets, then what makes you think he can't avoid punches and kicks?

And give examples, not just "Spike is like Bruce Lee!" or "Spike has killer instinct!"

[Stalinist]

Spike barley won against Pierrot. So what...The fact was that he went up against a supernatural being that in my opinion is worse that Vash and still won.
So what? You use Vash almost losing to the saxophone guy as a valid argument, but say so what to this? Okay...

[So Full of Mercy]

Yeah and when Vash BEAT Midvalley, he did it with his own skill, not luck. He ricocheted bullets off a pillar with accuracy superhuman in nature.

[Renard Baines]

And Spike wasn't trying to save innocent bystanders either.

[ACE2001]

Do I think Bruce Lee can take down Vash the Stampede? Of course I do!:lol: j/k. I know that Spike could lay a finger on Vash if he wanted too. I have stated in numerous posts my points on this. I believe that they are all valid. Like for example, Vash got whipped by a guy playing a saxophone for crist sakes! I don't care if he was a gun-ho gun, he still got his butt whipped by a saxophone player....But he is a so called "God" right? He is unbeatable? Not in the least bit. He has many flaws in my opinion. The scars on his body proves my point. He could care less about his body. He can dodge all bullets huh? How about episode 7 when he got shot by one of the badlads(misspelled :( )? He dodge those bullets huh? He may can dodge a couple, but he can't dodge them all! His lack of concern for his body in the end, would be his downfall! He almost lost to the leader of the B.D.N. and guess what...he was human! My god, this isn't as one-sided as you all are making it out to be! But, I must admit this is fun. I'll talk to you guys again soon....Take care!:)

[Renard Baines]

And yet....look at who's still alive.

You think that Saxaphone player was just that? No, he was much more than that. Of course, Vash would've finished it sooner, but he was going OUT OF HIS WAY to save innocent bystanders.

How about giving some decent reasons for a change?

[Shenrezade]

"almost lost to the BL's leader"? He didn't almost lose. He tore his wounds open fighting him. Whats-his-name(Like I'm gonna remember a minor character that was only in two episodes. I've only seen the anime twice!!) said that Vash won the fight. His own bullets didn't even hit him!! That's hardly called almost losing.

[So Full of Mercy]

Vash didn't get whooped by Midvalley, he BEAT Midvalley. Midvalley is not a mere saxophone player, he can shoot CONCUSIVE BLASTS of sound. Spike damn sure would've lost to Midvalley, cause Spike can't dodge bullets, let alone SOUND. I seem to recall Vash might've gotten shot and Brilliance Dynamite Neon only SAID that Vash tore a wound open, but I may be mistaken. This is of course once Vash has been winded, hurt, in the midst of an avalanche and on a moving train against a guy with dual chainguns on his shoulder pads... yeah Spike would be dead.

[Stalinist]

I think it's safe to say after 8 pages, he's not going to be convinced. His points, which I personally didn't see even though admittedly I didn't exactly look very hard through all 8 pages, are valid to him, and he just ignores what we say and repeats what he says. So let' just leave it at that.

[ACE2001]

Well....I see that I am annoying some people about this.:( Or adding more fuel to the fire so to speak. So, I am going to do myself and everyone else a favor by not speaking on this subject anymore. Obviously it has gone on long enough and I am not reaching anyground or anyone for that matter.:( :lol: So, with that said.....I still think that Spike is better than Vash!!!!:D :lol: Thanks for putting up with me this long....Didn't expect this much out-pour. Talk to you guys again soon!:)

[So Full of Mercy]

NO! The point of this was to prove an absolute truth, I can't just LET a member of society go with ignorance building on him. Ignorance can only fuel more ignorance! You must repent!

[Stalinist]

This can only be proven with a computer simulation.

Frame 1: Spike and Vash square off
frame 2: Spike reaches for his gun, Vash has written "I 0wnz0r j00" on Spike's forehead
frame 3: Spike's hand has moved about a centimeter, Vash has lit a cigarette
frame 4: Spike's hand is nearly a fourth of the way to his gun, and Vash decides to run to the store to borrow some toy guns
frame 5: Spike's hand moves ever closer to his gun, and Vash has decided to wait a little while before emptying the toy gun on Vash's face
frame 6: Vash gets bored, empties the toy gun

Winner: Vash.

[DeeD]

well, this is a trigun board, of course most of the peeps here will support trigun, try getting your guys from the CB board over to here to talk about it, however i guess after watching trigun, your guys will agree that Vash will beat Spike hands down.

i'm a martial art lover, and yes juet kun do is powerful. Spike is cool, no doubt. but really, Vash is like 100x times more powerful than Spike. His speed is evident enough for us to see + he's not even human.

You need to see the point, killing someone is easier than trying to disarm someone while not hurting them. having a killer instinct isn't the point here. all the gung ho peeps have killer instinct. let's pit spike against them, you think spike will stand a chance?
while Vash is someone who has thrashed(or should i say disarmed them) and proceeded to kick Knives' ass. as for the mad man pierot? Angel Arm will blast him into smithereens. u have to see that a puny force field isn't gonna blocked out something that has put a big hole on a moon, besides the force field was tested only to repel gun fires as we have seen during that episode, with men in lab suits firing at pierot with pistols. Spike barely won against Pierot if you can even call that a decent win.

bounty motivation for Spike isn't valid as well, you have to bring in bounties alive to get your reward.

Vash is no god, but certainly Spike wouldn't last against him, as for WolfWood, well Spike'll might win over that guy if they're doing hand to hand combat.

just to side track a little, Ed's dad's is a martial art guy. the style of fighting he's using is similar to TaiChi and Aikido. and no, Spike don't stand a chance with him too. How long do you think Spike can last with all that punching and sprinting, while Ed's dad just threw him around with a few moves, in the end Spike'll just die of exhaustion, while Ed's dad'll just get somemore eggs to eat.

[Shenrezade]

Yeah, didn't Spike throw a knife that went right through Pierot's leg while that force field was up? I think Spike might be able to take out most of the GHG's except Dominique(rrrrggghhh!!!! How the heck do you spell her name!!?) since the only way out of the Demon's eye is by focusing everything on an insane amount of pain no human can handle. I mean, Wolfwood beat the 9 lives guy with little more than Spike used in some of the heavy duty episodes of CB. And Vash's body could be dead for the bounty. It did say "dead or alive" on his poster, didn't it? And Spike is a better shot than most people here say he is, and is insanely good if he only has one eye(but I thought that eye could see too?) Still, Vash would beat him, unless Spike played tricky, and even then I don't think it would work.

[So Full of Mercy]

No no no. Wolfwood would punk Spike. Spike would never get close enough to use martial arts.

Spike would not beat Midvalley, Hoppered, Rei Dei, Leonef, Dominique, Caine, or Chapel. Maybe Monev... EG Mine for sure... and probably Grey.

[DeeD]

Originally posted by Shenrezade
Yeah, didn't Spike throw a knife that went right through Pierot's leg while that force field was up? I think Spike might be able to take out most of the GHG's except Dominique(rrrrggghhh!!!! How the heck do you spell her name!!?) since the only way out of the Demon's eye is by focusing everything on an insane amount of pain no human can handle. I mean, Wolfwood beat the 9 lives guy with little more than Spike used in some of the heavy duty episodes of CB. And Vash's body could be dead for the bounty. It did say "dead or alive" on his poster, didn't it? And Spike is a better shot than most people here say he is, and is insanely good if he only has one eye(but I thought that eye could see too?) Still, Vash would beat him, unless Spike played tricky, and even then I don't think it would work.

well, Pierot's force field was sorta weaken or disappeared when Spike threw that knife, if you remember. Pierot was stunned when he looked into Spike's eye, cause Spike's eye reminded him of the cat which was always on looking whenever he was subjected to experiments. It was due to Pierot's fear of the cat, that Spike managed to injure him.

as for Wolfwood, well Spike will have a chance if he manages/can to get near enough to do martial art on him.

[So Full of Mercy]

Alright, you try to get close to a man with a missle-launcher/machine-gun/pistol arsenal to karate kick him.

[DeeD]

Originally posted by So Full of Mercy
Alright, you try to get close to a man with a missle-launcher/machine-gun/pistol arsenal to karate kick him.

i think spike has shown enough capability in the 26 episodes and the movie, besides it's not karate kick :p but i guess that's enough, we're off topic completely already :lol: .

[Stalinist]

Yes, but let's compare similar situations between Wolfwood and Spike. In Quick Draw, Wolfwood takes on a huge group of gunslingers without even a scratch. Spike takes on the syndicate and gets shot twice.

[Shenrezade]

Well, in all fairness, the syndicate was full of professional assasins, who's skill far exceeds the gunslingers. Frankly, if Spike didn't get out of there without getting hurt, I'd think he was superhuman or something....

[DeeD]

like what Shenrezade said and to add on, cowboy bebop is more realistic in the sense that, main leads in the show actually suffers injuries from time to time. spike's not invincible and i'm sure if the creator of spike wants him to be invincible then i'm sure he'll end up as something like vash, but that wouldn't be fun then would it.

[So Full of Mercy]

Vash gets hurt all the time, but he is above conventional fighting methods, you have to use some kind of supernatural force or freak occurence or endangerment of others that leads to self-sacrifice to hurt him.

Wolfwood also WALKED into machine gun fire and never took a hit, he would own Spike.

[DeeD]

i think you got the point. trigun's a bit unrealistic compared to cowboy bebop.

[So Full of Mercy]

I wouldn't say that. I think Wolfwood and Vash are just supposed to be THAT good... look at Bebop, no one could pull off those aerial stunts in their little planes, its no different really. We're just supposed to accept that Faye and Spike and Jet are just THAT good. Like you don't question how Ed can hack just about anything even though she's so small, we're just supposed to accept that Ed is THAT good.

[DeeD]

i think we can differentiate slight exaggeration to out of this world antics.
i mean, when we watch cowboy bebop, let's say spike kicks some asses, dodge a few bullets, we can say that they are real good, but still MIGHT be achievable. like watching hollywood action films.
it does not occur to you that it's unachievable though it is, u'll just end up saying that they are real good.
however when we watch trigun, looking how Vash and Wolfwood, literally walking in rains of bullets without getting hit, we know that it's actually outta this world.

[So Full of Mercy]

I kind of see your point, but I still say Nightow is trying to show us Vash is just that good. Guess I'll just semi-agree with what you're saying.

[Stalinist]

Realism doesn't help the argument for Spike any, the fact is Wolfwood is able to take the entire town. Spike never takes them all, the biggest group he ever faces is right when he walks in the front door. IIRC (I haven't seen it in a while) he kicks the grenade, runs to the escalator, three or four guys shooting, he takes them out, runs to the elevator dodging, gets in the elevator and tosses the nade. Then in the hallways it's also never more than four people.

[DeeD]

Originally posted by Stalinist
Realism doesn't help the argument for Spike any, the fact is Wolfwood is able to take the entire town. Spike never takes them all, the biggest group he ever faces is right when he walks in the front door. IIRC (I haven't seen it in a while) he kicks the grenade, runs to the escalator, three or four guys shooting, he takes them out, runs to the elevator dodging, gets in the elevator and tosses the nade. Then in the hallways it's also never more than four people.

yeah, i know that. i said those, to tip the scale a little bit to help Spike a little. to make it fairer for him, the artist of trigun actually made out the characters to be semi invincible, while the artist for CB didn't think along that line. i still do believe that Spike has a chance with Wolfwood if conditions are made fairer, as compared to against Vash o.O; but no anime character's more powerful than the script :lol:

[So Full of Mercy]

Well... apparently Wolfwood wasn't invincible.

Spike is like the Miami Hurricanes, they rule the roost in college football, but Wolfwood and Vash are the St. Louis Rams and the New England Patriots, they could conceivably be upset by someone on their level, but Spike would never be able to take them. Spike is the best for the world in which he fights, but Vash and Wolfwood live in a tougher world where they are still the top dogs.

[DeeD]

Originally posted by So Full of Mercy
Well... apparently Wolfwood wasn't invincible.

Spike is like the Miami Hurricanes, they rule the roost in college football, but Wolfwood and Vash are the St. Louis Rams and the New England Patriots, they could conceivably be upset by someone on their level, but Spike would never be able to take them. Spike is the best for the world in which he fights, but Vash and Wolfwood live in a tougher world where they are still the top dogs.

eh... if you're talking about american football, sorry i not really a fan of it. well i did say if conditions were fairer. but nm :)

[Stalinist]

I still don't know about Spike having a chance with an extremely fair duel setting. Chapel chased him into a building with tons of liquor, made it go boom, Wolfwood jumped out, the gun was pointed at Wolfwood's back, and he still managed to come out on top. He would've survived if Legato didn't make him pull the trigger when Wolfwood was walking away.

[DeeD]

Originally posted by Stalinist
I still don't know about Spike having a chance with an extremely fair duel setting. Chapel chased him into a building with tons of liquor, made it go boom, Wolfwood jumped out, the gun was pointed at Wolfwood's back, and he still managed to come out on top. He would've survived if Legato didn't make him pull the trigger when Wolfwood was walking away.

my friend, i don't know what to say if you're going to keep on arguing in this manner. when i say a fair duel, it meant that Woodwolf doesn't have the advantage of the script

through out the entire serie of trigun, i've not seen whatsoever dodging skills that Woodwolf has. however, no bullets seems to hit him at all. how many times has he wandered into a mega crossfire and not get hurted? not to mention that he WALKS when a whole lot of people are firing at him with machine guns. bullets seems to miss him somehow. don't tell me that he's faster than the light(even Vash's not that fast, he's 4 or 5x faster than the speed of the sound but not light~) so he could dodge while appearing to be at one spot. and about the duel with chapel. what did i see in that duel? i saw Wolfwood just standing there and firing his cross punisher. both of them were just firing their weapons and emptying their clips, tell me is there any skill involved there? hell, if i've not seen the marksmanship of Wolfwood, i'll be thinking that both's shooting skill really sux to the core, cause they can't even injure each other after having emptied the entire clip.

i think you should understand the meaning of a fair duel now right? it's not about Wolfwood just standing at a spot firing away his cross punisher while Spike goes dodging till he pants like a dog and still get shot, only to find that none of his bullets actually hit Wolfwood cause some mysterious forces actually deflects the bullet for Wolfwood without him having to lift a finger :rolleyes:. I understand he has the cross punisher as a shield, but how many times have we seen him used it and how many times have bullets missed him?

The reason i didn't picked on Vash is because i've seen his ability to dodge bullets earlier on in the serie. for Wolfwood, it's a mystery, how bullets always missed him. if i'm not wrong, he didn't suffer any wounds through out the serie, except the one that killed him. so using your logic, then Spike'll be more powerful than him, cause Spike actually survives after multiple fatal shots while Wolfwood dies after one fatal shot . surely you can't argue in this sense right?

i'm getting tired of this discussion. if you truly feels that Wolfwood is more powerful than Spike in a Fair Duel without the advantage of the script. well good for you :). nice debating guys.

[So Full of Mercy]

They don't just let ANYONE into the Gung Ho Guns... Chapel and Wolfwood are both extremely fast, I think Wolfwood is just under Vash's ability in marksmanship and speed. Wolfwood isn't lucky, he is just that good.

[DeeD]

Originally posted by So Full of Mercy
They don't just let ANYONE into the Gung Ho Guns... Chapel and Wolfwood are both extremely fast, I think Wolfwood is just under Vash's ability in marksmanship and speed. Wolfwood isn't lucky, he is just that good.

i think you don't get the msg of my post. i'm not saying that Gung Ho Guns are lousy, i'm saying Wolfwood has the speed of light? eh, looking at your reply, i doubt that you actually read what i've post, too long? well, never mind, i'm not debating anymore. cya