Akira; Best anime of all time?

[Project Akira]

Does it deserve it's title as "Citizen Kane" of anime? I'm not going to answer this because if you can't guess my answer then you haven't looked at my name.

[The cruel angel's thesis]

It's really good, but not the best in my opinion...I've said many times that I like FLCL best.


I also don't think Citizen Kane is the best movie ever :rolleyes:

[raymojo]

I really liked it... Otherwise I wouldn't have bought the limited edition dvd (in the metal case).

The best - No way.
I don't think any anime deserves that title. My opinion changes so often, so trying to pick the best is impossible.
RIght now my favourite is Inuyasha, but in 2 weeks I guarantee you it will be something else. :D

[So Full of Mercy]

No, I don't even think Akira is all that GREAT. I would say Princess Mononoke, but then people ----- that it isn't real anime, and I say, "Hey, America is the best at everything, by cracky, why not anime"

[Project Akira]

Originally posted by So Full of Mercy
No, I don't even think Akira is all that GREAT. I would say Princess Mononoke, but then people ----- that it isn't real anime, and I say, "Hey, America is the best at everything, by cracky, why not anime"

Either you are that naive or really are the idiot that I have known you are for the past few weeks. First off, Mononoke wasn't even made in America, it was imported. The only thing American are the voice actors who joined in becasue they recognized the talent that Miyazki had.

So try to get your facts right before you go bashing movies.

[Fatal Outlaw]

i really dont like the character designs for akira, girls look like guys etc.

[Kodachi]

No.

[So Full of Mercy]

Yes, but a lot of people say it's been Americanized and blah blah blah. PA, likewise, I find your idiocy to be the harbinger of a migraine.

[Project Akira]

Whatever, that's why I can back my arguements up with solid facts something that I have yet to see you do. So until you prove me otherwise I think it best to keep your mouth shut. When you can start to give a decent debate rather than state opinion then maybe I might talk to you.

[raymojo]

Calm down.
Let's not let this get out of hand. :D

The women in Akira were not as... 'nice' as in other anime, however if that is why you thought it was a bad movie then you are watching for the wrong reasons.

[Neo Evangelion]

Akira was good, but not the best. I don't think I need to state what the best anime is in my opinion. Booyaka.

[Project Akira]

Originally posted by Neo Evangelion
Akira was good, but not the best. I don't think I need to state what the best anime is in my opinion. Booyaka.

Yeah we know about you and Pokemon!

[Neo Evangelion]

Originally posted by Project Akira


Yeah we know about you and Pokemon!

:eek:

...Booyaka!

[Sir_Viktor]

I liked Akira, but I don't think it's the best. I don't really understand why so many people think it's so wonderful, but I guess everyone's entitled to their own opinions...

[So Full of Mercy]

I didn't care about the women, I just wanted some sort of sense, but after halfway through it was just insanity. The question at hand is: Best anime of all time? Explain how that can have factual base? Dork.

[orochi X]

itsa a very very good anime and its up there with the best

[El^Presidente]

It's not the best anime of all time, but it's high up there

[monolith]

i think it's the best anime movie, but not the best anime of all time.

[Safer-Sephiroth]

akira was a great anime, but I do not think it is the greatest anime of all time....

personally, I liked perfect blue better, but only slightly....

[Project Akira]

Originally posted by So Full of Mercy
The question at hand is: Best anime of all time? Explain how that can have factual base? Dork.

The same way I can explain Citizen Kane or The Godfather as best film of all time; film techniques, story, and acting (in this case dubbing). You picked the wrong guy to insult bucko. Y'see I may not be Roger Ebert but I am an film amateur film critic and film buff so believe it or not, I have clue what I'm talking about here. :D

So let's start a debate shall we?

I will admit that after saying somethings over the past few days, I find it hard to choose Akira over Grave of the Fireflies and vice versa. I would probably place them in a tie forced to do so becasue they're both equally excellent nut back to what makes Akira so great.

1) The story that can be seen from many levels
Akira isn't your ordinary anime where you have a straightforward veiw on the plot and story. The movie has a plot that can be seen from so many angle by any person that watches it. You can choose to see it as this big mess of a movie or you can see it as the story of two friends who fate has chosen to drive apart. Or you can see it as a story of evolution; the evolution of the power of Tetsuo, evolution of the friendship between Tetsuo and Kaneda, the evolution of mankind, and so forth. Maybe you might see it as a film that tells the sstory of what happens when man tries to play God both as an individual (The role of Tetsuo's character) or in trying to advance man to a new level (what the government did with the children).

2)The film uses techniques that have yet be bettered by any other anime
This is where I get to talk about one of my favorite scenes in all of movie history, the fight with the Clowns through NeoTokyo. The camera movements (the "light trails" on the bikes still makes me go wow) in following the fight make it one of the most energetic. The frequent cuts between the individual members of the gang fighting with members of the clowns creates the effect of letting you see how much of a group this gang really is, setting up the near disintegration of Kaneda and Tetsuo's relationship to be even that much more painful. The bike scene (as well as many of the other scenes in the film) has a manic energy to it that no other anime has it's fight scenes (though Ninja Scroll and Mononoke Hime come damn close) which is unmistakeable watching it. In fact you get a real sense of wonder and terror when Tetsuo teleports out of the building simply through the camera angle and expression on his face.

3)The voice actors in the dub (the old one at least) create distinctive voice that perfectly fit their characters
In the original dub at least, you had voice actors that embellished their roles. It's really hard to replace the voice Jimmy Flinders terrific job as the wise ass Kaneda in the original dub with the voice in the current dub. Though I will admit that Joshua Seth does a great job really making Tetsuo into the confused and whiny brat that he is on the new dub. Still you have top quality voice acting in the film that makes you care about the characters in it, something that no other anime film (save for Grave of the Fireflies) has ever really done for me or many others. Though I wish Pioneer had brought Jimmy Flinders back to re dub kaneda that would have kicked ass. Still the dubbing job on both versions is top notch and worth commenting on.

So those are my thoughts on why Akira is as great as it is. I think you will find it hard to find fault in any of my statements and maybe you might want to think twice about who you insult. One it doesn't make you look very good and two you really shouldn't do it.

[So Full of Mercy]

What the hell, the point is, it's STILL your opinion, you monstrous dweeb. You failed through all of that spiel to show me that Akira's supremecy is a fact, you are STILL stating an opinion, you may have basis for your opinion, I never denied that, but even the basis OF your opinions are opinions, but if you wanna argue about best anime we can, and I'll give my opinions.

*some spoilers ahead some spoilers ahead Trigun*

1.) While Akira has can be viewed on different levels, so can other great anime, I'll use my favorite series and favorite movie as examples. Trigun, there is a heavy symbolic theme along the lines of "Do you save the spider or the butterfly" do you destroy a life of an evil person to save the life of an innocent as is Knives' view or do you try to save both as is Vash's view. We see this question set up a question of good vs. evil, is killin necessary? We this theme amplified in the character of Wolfwood, who lies somewhere in between, he wants to follow Vash's idealogical dreams, but he doesn't see it as practical and in the end he dies for his redemption. There is also a similar theme in Princess Mononoke, except there is no right or wrong... there is nature and technology, each with their good points and their bad, and we have our character who can sense the evil of both, but he is kind-hearted enough to see their redeeming qualities and wants them to strive together in balance and understanding. It shows, through the monk, how greed can ruin such understanding.

I'll post more later, it's time for class.

[Project Akira]

Think you could be more rude?

[Sir_Viktor]

Originally Posted by So Full of Mercy:
We this theme amplified in the character of Wolfwood, who lies somewhere in between, he wants to follow Vash's idealogical dreams, but he doesn't see it as practical and in the end he dies for his redemption.

*flails arms in the air* Thanks for the spoiler!

[So Full of Mercy]

I could, if you asked nicely, PA.

Sorry, Viktor, I apologize, I will rectify my error... I also accidentally informed Magamaru of the same thing... start a support group, "People Who Hate SFoM" PA's the chairman.

2.) You've already stated that Princess Mononoke has excellent fight scenes, but the overall animation of Princess Mononoke was nothing less than beautiful, especially landscapes... the landscapes can convey the entire mood, it can show the beauty of what little tranquility there is before the war, it shows you the destructive powers of hate and the beauty of rebirth and salvation without saying a word. Akira's art isn't even all that great, it does have certain merit from a film perspective, but since one of the key points of anime is animation, I think it's pretty poor when you compare it to Princess Mononoke or even Trigun.

3.) The all star cast of Princess Mononoke's voice actors can't be beat, Billy Bob Thornton really does make a good shifty monk, I won't go into that, but the voices are pretty good. Trigun's voices match their characters wonderfully, Wolfwood sounds deceivingly laid back, Vash sounds humorous, but he can sound serious and intimidating, Millie sounds innocent and sweet, Meryl sounds like a know-it-all and bitchy.

[Project Akira]

Originally posted by So Full of Mercy
I could, if you asked nicely, PA.

2.) Akira's art isn't even all that great, it does have certain merit from a film perspective, but since one of the key points of anime is animation

And the staggering detail put into the landscape of NeoTokyo (and future destruction) isn't apparent?

I did ask nicely, you have just chosen to be rude.

[raymojo]

Obviously what you think is the best anime is going to be an opinion. I think the point of this thread was to see what people's opinions were.

Personally I don't listen to what critiques have to say (no offense PA :) ), but that is because more often than not they disagree with what I think.
For me, a movie is good if I am entertained while watching it. Not because it is some sort of abstract plot, which has multiple interpretations on various levels... blah blah blah...
Purely entertainment, that's how I rate stuff.

I am entertained every single time I see Akira, so in my opinion, it is an excellent movie.

EDIT: If you thought the animation quality was poor, try watching the DVD. They have done incredible things to a movie that is ten years old.

[Bomberman00004]

First of all i dont see how "So Full of Mercy" is being rude. Hes just stating an opinion, so shut up. Deal with it. I mean, what did you expect, everyone to say "Yay Akira is great!" no actually its not. I agree with all of So Full's points, and i personally think Akira sucks. I hated it. You probably werent around when i got flamed for that, but i turned it off halfway through the movie. Nontheless, stop being so rude in your own thread. If you didnt want people to state opinions you shouldnt have made this thread and the countless others your spamming this forum with.

[Project Akira]

Originally posted by Bomberman00004
First of all i dont see how "So Full of Mercy" is being rude. Hes just stating an opinion, so shut up. Deal with it. I mean, what did you expect, everyone to say "Yay Akira is great!" no actually its not. I agree with all of So Full's points, and i personally think Akira sucks. I hated it. You probably werent around when i got flamed for that, but i turned it off halfway through the movie. Nontheless, stop being so rude in your own thread. If you didnt want people to state opinions you shouldnt have made this thread and the countless others your spamming this forum with.

No I didn't hence why I started this thread! Since you seem to have sided with So Full of Mercy, I won't hold it against you. It's just you have chosen to do what he did, cower behind insults instead of posting opinion or fact. Common mistake of those too lazy to work a debate.

Ciao

[Torkm]

The flaming stops here.

Please get back to the topic or I will be forced to close it.

This warning goes to Project Akira and So Full of Mercy.

Project Akira, just ignore him, if he keeps going, he will get what he deserves.

[Bomberman00004]

Am I missing something? When did I insult you, Project Akira? I simply stated that I did not like Akira for the reasons previously posted. The animation, sure it fits the voices, but the look is pathetic. The characters all look alike, at least to me, and like someone said, the girls dont even look feminine. I didnt really like the storyline either.

[Project Akira]

I apologize then. I misread your post. But you make a good point, other than Kei, none of the women are attractive and I think that is done on purpose. But that is me.

[So Full of Mercy]

Ugh, you're incorrigible, I stated my points, I told you what I thought was better, you still say I didn't... I explained you can't really have factual basis for an opinion, what is wrong with you? You say I am cowering behind insults, yet, I posted two fairly lengthy posts explaining my position, I insult you because you have been NOTHING but snide to me since I disagree with you on varying points, maybe you took something I said at one point way back as something more serious than I intended it, and forever held this grudge against me, I dunno, maybe you took some fanfic satiristic post as a personal attack on you, I don't really know, but you continue to claim I'm not making my point. I don't really want an enemy, but what am I to do, you get a differing opinion and you think you're Suburban Commando (Hogan r00lz). I would like to bury the hatchet, but if I disagree I'm not trying to start something, I just don't agree, I don't think Akira is very good, I don't think fanfics are leeching off someone's hard work, don't assume that since I don't like Akira, that I am a moron, I love analyzing things, I just don't think Akira was an entertaining vessel and wasn't enjoyable.

-Bomberman, thank you for understanding that I have a right to an opinion!

[Kayay]

Personally, I didn't think Akira was as great as all the hype led me to expect it to be. Then again, I often feel this way about other movies that get "rave reviews".

Aikira came out about 10 years ago? What else was released at that time? I suppose if I put the movie into some sort of perspective I might be able to appreciate the "film technique" stuff, but I usually don't focus on that stuff. OK, maybe it was deep and compex, and maybe it was "groundbreaking" at the time, but it just didn't "wow" me. I suppose I could always rent it again and check out the "new"dub (how new is the new dub anyway?). Maybe I'll feel differently the second time around. Maybe.

[Dryden-san]

Akira is more important for what it represents rather than the quality of the movie itself. I don't feel it's a bad movie by any means, but out of all the anime movies I own, Akira is probably my least favorite. But a bad movie? No. First of all, the animation. Akira was made more than ten years ago. Times change and techniques improve. It has since been surpassed in the quality of the animation (by which I mean the movement; the style of the art is always a matter of personal taste), and I didn't think the music was that great to begin with. However, please bear in mind, that the quality of the animation does top everything else from that point in time. Also, recall that the animation is Akira is cel animation. Computers were not used to animate those crowd and action sequences. At the time, the technology simply did not exist that is available today. Princess Mononoke for example, makes use of several computer techniques that were unavailable at the time.

As to the style of the art... I do understand the complaints here. Akira is faithful to the style of Katsuhiro Otomo's manga. (Read: the girls looked the same in the comic). His style will not appeal to everyone. I do feel however, that this is an asset, not a drawback. It lends an air of gritty realism, that would be lacking if they were all cute and pretty. Really now, are all women feminine and attractive? Don't be silly. Remember the priest with the afro who gets killed in the bridge collapse? Also a woman. Freaky, eh? I didn't know myself until I loked at the manga. Not even the female lead (Kei) is especially attractive, but come on! She's a member of a f*cking underground resistance movement! She has better things to do than style her hair, apply makeup, accentuate her figure, and try to be more 'feminine.' Actually, the complaining about the girls is the only thing I have a problem with. The style either appeals to you or it doesn't, but trying it justify it by saying it lacks detail is just plain wrong.

Okay, so this is all and well and good, but if I feel this way about the movie than why isn't it my favorite? Simple. I just don't like it as much as the other movies I've seen. It still isn't a bad move, though. You can dislike something and still appreciate that it's a quality film. Unless you think it's just plain garbage, and all copies should be burned. In that case, I doubt I'll change your mind, but bear with me. In the limited time provided Akira, provides us with two main characters with complex motivations and emotions grounded in their background together. The story has a clear beginning, middle and end. We are presented with a complex plot that undergoes many phases and covers a wide variety of events. While the theme of the movie and and the interpretation of the ending is left to the viewer, there is a clear sense of resolution (at least as far as this plane of existence goes).

More than that, Akira is important because it really is the film that threw open the doors of the west for anime. Almost all the anime we have the pleasure of watching these days we get because Akira changed the way people in America thought about animation. It proved that you could provide mature content in animated form and still make a successful film. That is why Akira is referred to so often; it marked the beginning of a genuine revolution. Whether you like the movie or not, it marks the moment the anime market finally established itself. Though god knows it remained a damn small market for a while...

PS: By way of comparison, I feel the same way about Ghost in the Shell. Good movie. Important movie. But not a favorite movie.

[Aku Shi]

Akira is not my favorite film or anime-related anything. Yes, I do love it. Yes, I find it an amazing piece of work both in an artistic and literary sense. Is it the best anime? If not, then pretty damn near close. And I thought the comment about the Citizen Kain of anime was very brilliant of PA. Why, you ask? Because in the top 100 films of all time, Citizen Kain was #1. Now, you may all question this. At first, so did I. But, then it was explained to me. It was chosen as such because of the masterful techniques that went into the production of it. Effects that today we think are simple and no big deal, while at the time it was made they were new and startlingly amazing. Akira is most likely the best in this sense. With the coming of Akira came stunning styles and ideas never used before. Each scene is masterfully displayed and the storyline is deep and intriguing. The manga delves even deeper, but still the movie is able to retain some of the genius. Everyday details in the sets and characters are not overlooked. Even the silence when Tetsuo is in space is a joy to witness because of how most anime and even Hollywood movies fail to realize that THERE IS NO SOUND IN SPACE. The creators were very thorough in its creation, more so than I've seen in most others. I'm sorry if you don't like the art style used for the people, but I think it makes them more realistic. Not everyone is a beautiful person, you know.... We can't always have bishoujo or bishounen saving the day. Besides, that's not what the film's about.


•§• Shi •§•