Terra 2 COULD have made women back then...

[Ronin Aquila]

Consider this:

A males chromosomes are made of= XY

A female is made of= XX

Now, the only thing that seperates us blokes from women is the Y chromosome, which in the fetal stage incites the child to develop male characteristics.

In fact, some women are born with only one X chromosome, and a blank chromosome. They can never hope to have children of their own. This is due to defective sperms/eggs during the firtilizing stage. However, due to the lack of a Y chromosome, they are still nominally and structually women.

In short, as the X chromosome is present in ALL humans, male or otherwise, all the Terra 2 men needed to do back then was combine two X chromosomes, independent of the Y, breed it within a blank cell...

... and presto, one artificial woman.

Considering that they had technology that allowed clones with varied characteristics and yet descend from one man, this would not be too far fetched.

... but his oversight sure made a great series!! :kawaii:

[iwakura]

Hmmmm. You have a valid point. Today's cloning of mamals utilize female "infrascructure". Terra II got past that hurdle.

It's much easier to clone if you have a female egg cell. Basically, you harvest an egg from a female, get rid of its existing genetic material and introduce other genetic material into it. Believe that Dolly the famous sheep clone was done this way. It took hundreds of attempts to get it to work.

The Terra II folks were more advanced since female egg cells weren't available as a base. The additional technology would be to extract X chromozones from two males and combine it in something that functions as an egg without wrecking the "egg" cell.

The other problem is that once you have a "hacked" egg, you implant it into a female to carry it to term. The Terra II folks would have also come up with an artificial womb to allow their cloning to work.

With all the knowledge they shold have had, I agree that it would have ssimpler to come up with some chromozone hacking tools than to create the android marionettes, particularly with the "maiden" circuits.

[Bacchi]

Weellll... since many series don't follow the laws of physics and stuff to begin with, I think it's also safe to say that Akahori probably ignored that.

Though he could've forgotten.

Either way, it still made a pretty cool series. ^__^

[Fatal Outlaw]

i doubt it if the creator of the series even knew that. besides, if they made real women back then, then there wouldnt be any saber marionets, thus, no story

[iwakura]

Perhaps you could have a world where Saber Marionettes were a step beyond blow-up dolls.
:lol:

[Ronin Aquila]

Dolly the sheep was not even an egg cell begin with. She was a hollowed out mammery cell that was "fertilised" sperm-free by another sheep's nucleus.

Hence, to clone an ovum free woman, one can theoretically hollow out a muscle cell of a male, fuse the X's from sperms of two different men, insert it within the hollow, and watch a little girl start growing.

Or have I watched too much The Sixth Day ....? :heh:

[iwakura]

Excuse me,

The "Dolly" sheep clone was made using a sheep "enucleated unfertilized egg" cell and adult mammalian cell.

The process was:
(1) Remove an udder cell from a sheep.
(2) Remove an unfertilized egg cell from the same sheep.
(3) Extract the nucleus from the udder cell and place in the egg cell
(4) Implant the artifically fertilized cell into another sheep womb at the proper time of her cycle.

Repeat 1-4 several hundred times and you might get lucky and get Dolly.

They needed an egg cell and a womb.

reference: http://www.sciam.com/explorations/030397clone/030397beards.html

I agree, you must have been watching too much Sci Fi!:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Ronin Aquila]

Agreed about the cell. But of late I have heard of a Japanese pioneered (woo hoo!!) technology known as the artificial womb. It is basically a tank of nutricious fluids that will monitor a foetus' condition as well as raise it, making a live womb in a clone's creation unnecessary.

[iwakura]

Has the artifical womb been verified to work?

[Ronin Aquila]

Yes, Sheep and pigs have been successfully grown in such vats.

The womb is not actually necessary to grow a foetus. All it needs is an ample supply of blood and a lot of warmth. For it has been confirmed that when attached to other soft and warm tissues, such as between organs and rectal walls... :vomit:

...the foetus would draw nutrients from the blood that flows by it and grow as normal. Of course, that would give the host a slow and painful death in short order as the foetus rupture organs in its desperate attempt to grow in places where it is not meant to.

The womb is merely a convenient avenue of growth for it is conveniently and safely isolated from most major organs (except inconveniently situated right above the bladder) and provides an opening for the child to exit from. A plexiglass tank, with constantly monitored temerature, nutritious fluids, and nutrients artifucially pumped in through the umbilical cord, would therefore be an equally ample substitute.

[tekblade]

now we wonder how soon itll happen to humans :D

[The Sandman]

Originally posted by iwakura
The other problem is that once you have a "hacked" egg, you implant it into a female to carry it to term. The Terra II folks would have also come up with an artificial womb to allow their cloning to work.

Why does it have to be implanted in a female? I once read that the male body has also structure and space to carry a baby. The only problem is wich one will volunteer... :sulkoff:

And I don't know if you watched that movie with Danny Devito and Arnold Schwazeneger, where Danny implanted an embryo in Arnold.... that was fun !:D
Now this last phrase I was only j/k :D

[iwakura]

I remember reading a while back that some gay male couples were looking into this sort of thing....

The risks involved just don't make this worth trying out.

[Ronin Aquila]

True. The inevitable made when the child starts kicking besides his dad/mom's intesines in the absence of a womb is so disgusting to discribe that I doubt EVA 2000 will let me describe it on this forum (with the new rules.) :heh:

[tekblade]

:lol: just thinking about it makes me wonder hehe

[iwakura]

re: risks

Actually, I was thinking about risks to the child. At least the adult had some choice in the matter...:eek:

[The Sandman]

What risk would the child have?

[Ronin Aquila]

Okay, serious mode activated....

The mother passes immunities and antibodies to her child through her milk, and therefore it is doubtful the father would be able to do the same, dooming the child to grow up sickly and weak. :(

[The Sandman]

Have you heard about milk in a glass ???
Why do you think cows are used for???

serious mode deactivated...:D

[iwakura]

re: what risks to the child?

Let's see:

* From a scientific process point of view this sort of thing hasn't been done before, so they really don't know how to do this yet. This sort of procedure would likely take several attempts to figure out by learning from past failures.

* Building upon what Ronin Aquila said, we really don't know everything that goes on when a woman carries a child. By doing it artifically, we could very easily be missing out on some natural mother/child protection and/or development process.

* From a political point of view, this is really sensitive. All sorts of right to life and man -vs- God/nature arguments. If the procedure was done, and the kid survived, this label would be on him/her forever. I wouldn't want to be that kid!

[Ronin Aquila]

Bible licking-housewives will have a field day labelling the poor child the antichrist all day long. :(

[tekblade]

ouch, but who knows, the child might become aware and become some super evil person :lol:

[Ronin Aquila]

But that's if only those nagging harridans keep on telling him he is evil all day long.

[tekblade]

ahh yes true :D

[Ronin Aquila]

I mean, what else has the modern Catholic Church done other than to promote inter racial/ethnic/idealistic hatred? :(

[iwakura]

Well, the modern Catholic church has mellowed out considerably. Back in the middle ages when it started the Crusades, that statement was true. Some 40 years ago, here was a "Vatican 2" meeting where they opened things up alot.

Are their ANY mainstream christian churches promoting racial hatred anymore?

[tekblade]

i dunno :D

[whiteraven]

Dang, this seemed like such an interesting topic till it turned to religion. :P
Anyway, back to the baby not in a womb thing...this actually happens with some frequency, some women have the egg attach to the fallopian tube and have what is called "tubular pregnancy". These tend to be aborted as soon as they are detected- if the fetus devloped there eventually it would burst and cause hemmoraghing and death for both mother and child. This is probably the main reason implanting a fetus in something other than a womb is a bad idea. A couple other reasons are things like hormones produced by the mother, carrying the child around for 9 months in a way which is not dangerous to child or parent, and let's not forget birth- while C-sections are common, extracting a baby carried to term from most places listed as womb alternatives would have to be extremely dangerous.

Of course in the series if they had the technology to clone men, they should have been able to easily clone women (yep just 2 X's) and could have emplanted the embryo in the womb of a surrugate (c'mere piggy like creature) and had women.

But the series couldn't be if they acknowledged that and I really enjoy it, so I'm glad they ignored it. :)

[tekblade]

hehe who knows :D if they could there be no show :lol:

[Ronin Aquila]

Selective scinetific ignorance is a virtue in writing Science Fiction. :)

[iwakura]

RA:
Ronin Aquila Selective scinetific ignorance is a virtue in writing Science Fiction.

Sometimes. That works well for Star Trek and other stuff like that. People that have good science backgrounds with a vision for the future write the all time classics though.

Jules Verne and Isiaac Asimov are examples of best of class SF writers.

Just my overly critical two cent comment again.:lol:

[tekblade]

hmmmm i think thats a good idea, not knowing one thing can help you expand its ideas to something fun rather knowing the subject can limit you :D

[Ronin Aquila]

The best fact/fiction mixer I've read to date has to be Robert A Heilen, who pioneered the mecha genre through his novel "Starship Troopers" in 1957. :)

[tekblade]

ahh cool :D was it his book that made the movie hense it has the same title :heh: ?

[Ronin Aquila]

That's right. Except that the 3 meter tall mecha suits which the Mobile Infantry donned were completely ommitted from the movie. Had this novel not been written, we would never have had any Mecha Anime now, for it is the pioneer of the genre.

[tekblade]

wow, i never knew that :D that sucks the mecha was taken out, it would had kicked ass with it still in the movie, guess they dont have a budget to add them in :lol: i think il lcheck it out some time :D

[Ronin Aquila]

In the God-Awful 3D TV animation, yes. :vomit:

[Chikiboo]

Originally posted by Ronin Aquila
Consider this:

A males chromosomes are made of= XY

A female is made of= XX

Now, the only thing that seperates us blokes from women is the Y chromosome, which in the fetal stage incites the child to develop male characteristics.

In fact, some women are born with only one X chromosome, and a blank chromosome. They can never hope to have children of their own. This is due to defective sperms/eggs during the firtilizing stage. However, due to the lack of a Y chromosome, they are still nominally and structually women.

In short, as the X chromosome is present in ALL humans, male or otherwise, all the Terra 2 men needed to do back then was combine two X chromosomes, independent of the Y, breed it within a blank cell...

... and presto, one artificial woman.

Considering that they had technology that allowed clones with varied characteristics and yet descend from one man, this would not be too far fetched.

... but his oversight sure made a great series!! :kawaii:


. . . . . I didnt knew that .. thx now I'm less stupid ... but all he fantastic vision of that serie is gone !! ..... no not really it still stays one of my favorite ever :)

[Ronin Aquila]

Next to the indescribably adorable Yumura Kirika of Noir , Lime is second in the list of cute anime girls that I want to have as an adoring baby sister. :kawaii:

[tekblade]

Originally posted by Ronin Aquila
In the God-Awful 3D TV animation, yes. :vomit:

ive never seen it in 3d animation :D hmm lime has your sister huh. i think itd be kinda hard to take care of her :lol: i think id like aria from sister princess, shes just the cutest person. next to her would be hinako :D i think i have some pics ofem

[Ronin Aquila]

Having one cute, energetic little sister is sweet. Having twelve is exhausting, not to mention a massive drain on your financial resources. :heh:

[tekblade]

lol :lol: yeah true, maybe just one of them rather all 12 :lol: hmm but dont forget lime comes in a 3 person package so you get cherry and bloodberry also :D

[Ronin Aquila]

Yeah, but they are more like in-laws who you can have heart to hearts with as equals with rather than minors that constantly drain you of attention and energy.

[tekblade]

ahh yes true that :D oh well what can we do, run away with one sister :lol:

[Ronin Aquila]

You'll risk a sisterly rivalry that can literally level cities. :heh:

[tekblade]

lol :lol: yeah, bad plan heh, well who knows :D i hafta think of something :heh:

[Ronin Aquila]

The marionettes are off limits. More trouble than they are worth. :heh:

[iwakura]

Back to the subject for a change...

Scientists have developed an artificial womb that allows embryos to grow outside the body

http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,648024,00.html

'There are going to be real problems,' said organiser Dr Scott Gelfand, of Oklahoma State University. 'Some feminists even say artificial wombs mean men could eliminate women from the planet and still perpetuate our species. That's a bit alarmist. Nevertheless, this subject clearly raises strong feelings.'
(So that's how it happened!):lol:

[Ronin Aquila]

If we are to be truly alarmist, we could say the reverse is possible as well. As childbearing has been the ultimate shackle of the female sexe's liberty, and to be free of that responsibility would give them an ample opportunity to rid the world of men.

After all, since clones can be grown in these tanks, who needs phallic reproduction anymore. :eek:

But I may be just over my head in this. Must be the vodka typing today. :heh:

[tekblade]

heh, oh well who knows what'll happen. theres prob gunna be hell about this stuff especially women since, no offesne, they might feel obsolete to these tubes. but in a sense it could be a good thing for couples that cant have children. oh well im ramblin again :heh:

[iwakura]

These are really interesting times that we live in.

It might be a parallel to the 1950's and the beginnings of the atomic age. Id we can survive the next 30 years or so, we'll be fine.:sweatdrop :heh:

[Ronin Aquila]

The best thing that will come out of this technology will be...

The obselence and disollution of the Catholic Church!!!! :kawaii:

That will mean free speech, free love, and freedom to watch Anime without being hated!!

Life is beautiful!! :kawaii:

[tekblade]

lol :lol:

[iwakura]

Wow, you really have something against Catholicsm. There are much worse religions that that one.

[AchtungAffen]

Religion is the drug of the ignorant

I saw the Starship Troopers Movie, and I hope the book is a good one cuz the movie can be applied to my movie-rating cuadratic. Here it goes
ST.SUCK^2+ST.MOVIE+ST =

1)It tremendously sucked
2)I'm out of my mind.

These are the 2 ceros it gave me.

and about SM, I like it, but when I asked the Oracle (formerly known as my sister) about it, it replied:
"Who's the sick mudafuka who done this?" (This was when I explained that there where no women and while Hanagata was on his own again)

[Ronin Aquila]

Akahori Satoru, also responsible for other eccentric works such as Maze and Sorcerer Hunters is the infamous author responsible for conceiving the Sabre Marionette franchise through the manga.

The Manga, however, is so overabundantly charged with sexuality that the significantly more sedated anime is superior in it's deeper and more philosophical plot. :)

[AchtungAffen]

I wonder where that plot is. I found the mangas funnier, and I think that's the point of SM is being fun to watch, it's not evangelion or stuff.

[GNDM2000]

whatever (all you people are talk+in about things i dont understand)

[AchtungAffen]

ohhh, that reminds me of that old and glorious song (my eyes are filled with tears now) that said "...cuando el kia aparece en la tv, dice esos discursos, que yo no consigo entender..."
oh glory

[Ronin Aquila]

Its not Evangelion, but it was certainly more clear about the value of humanity than that bitter series ever was.

[iwakura]

Another trek back to the subject...

Anyone see the news today. Now someone has cloned a house cat. I can see the cat lovers queuing up for this.

Next they should try to clone a cat in an artificial womb!

[Ronin Aquila]

A "Re-pet"sort corporation franchise eerily similar to that of Arnold Schwarzenagger's The Sixth Day could very well be established within the next decade as a result of this. :eek:

[AchtungAffen]

Originally posted by Ronin Aquila
Its not Evangelion, but it was certainly more clear about the value of humanity than that bitter series ever was.

I could reply to that...but I wont...here.

[tekblade]

supposedly there was amad scientist that cloned , you wont believe but a crap load of richard simmons. yep im not lying richard simmons. heres a link : http://entertainment.yahoo.com/entnews/wwn/20020123/101179800019.html read it if you feel like it :D

[iwakura]

re: Richard Simmons cloned!

Most likely a joker. Think of the hundreds of attempts and the need for a cooperative female for implant....

...unless he worked at a fertility clinic and lied to the women!!!

[tekblade]

lol :lol: yeah or maybe they have them test tube tubes that can grow babies ... :heh:

[AchtungAffen]

who is richard simmons?

[Ronin Aquila]

I've only seen him, uh I mean "it" once and the horror of the imagery was burnt into the back of my retinars. :eek:

He is a lanky white guy with a very bad Afro hairdo who is thin in the wrong places and chunky in the worst. He does those Aerobics programmes shown at 9:30 for bored and overweight housewives, accompanied by the horror that is 80's Disco music. :heh:

[AchtungAffen]

well, then anime is becoming real life. I wonder who'll be the heroes that stop this mad scientist from bringing apocallypsis with his army of Simmons. Like a James Bond movie

[tekblade]

who knows, we'll hafta see :lol:

[iwakura]

Richard Simmons used to be a lardy guy who took huge guy roles in commercials, then he lost weight and started his franchise.

What really bugs me about that guy is his voice...

[Ronin Aquila]

I only seen segments of him in some comedy movies, but does he sound like Hanagata or something? :confused:

[tekblade]

:lol: lol i dunno, i think hanagata even sounds more manly then he does, yes his voice is very well.... also i never knew he was in movies, oh well :D

[AchtungAffen]

I always laughed at when Hanagata sings with his guitar how his voice changes to a deep manly tone;)

...until Baiko arrives...

[Ronin Aquila]

And summarily executed him for being a disturbor of the peace. :lol:

More hilarious was that scene in the first season in which he was interrogated with the water wheel. Baiko then suggested that the bed of nails was much more efficient. :kawaii: Damn the screams of terror that followed were absolutely classic!! :kawaii:

[tekblade]

lol :lol: i remember that, that was so funny, i remember her calling the bed of spikes "mr.prickly" :D its funny when bloodyberry smashes him up in the air :heh:

[Ronin Aquila]

Funny how all recent "Skypunchers" in anime are gradually becoming redheads (Naru of Love Hina being another). :kawaii:

[tekblade]

lol :lol: yeah now that you mention it, it is true :D i like it when hanagata has those bloody faces :heh:

[Ronin Aquila]

And you gotta love that scream.

And back on topic, if historical documents of Terra 2 matched what Bloodberry regularly does to Hanagata, its little wonder they didn't make any women at all. :lol:

[tekblade]

hehe true, :D no male could survive with a bunch of females like her :lol:

[Ronin Aquila]

Literally.

[tekblade]

hehe :lol: well some might be able to tame her :heh:

[AchtungAffen]

there's nothing impossible for a whip and a couple of leather clothes

[tekblade]

heh i dont think the males will be able to survive through that

[iwakura]

re: whips and survival...

Better be careful, they might end up with a world populated by only six marionettes.

:lol:

[Ronin Aquila]

Ouch. :jdrop:

[tekblade]

hrmmmm :heh:

[iwakura]

Then the marionets would die too if what's said about what happens to them with no one to love is true.

:dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead:

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: