Macross Plus-Who should of won? the YF-19 or YF-21

[orochi X]

Well in Macross Plus if there wasnt Shanon Apple there ruining the tests and that new Ghost fighter, who do u think would of won the tests? YF-19 or YF-21?

[thedarkmarine]

They would've went to a bar and had a drink.

[isamudyson]

YF-19 of course!

[Ura]

Well it came down to Pilots. Isamu was a better pilot. He pushed the 19 harder than Guld did the 21. The 21 was a far superior plane though.

In the tests the 19 had pulled ahead of the 21 in the end. Though in my opinion Isamus the better pilot. The 21 is the better plane.

In fact from my limited Macross 7 Memory the 21s design was the plane adopted by the UN Spacey. Basara had the only 19.

[Erik]

Well,it's just as Ura said,the YF-21 was in fact the better plane.The YF-19 was able to keep up with it so well just because of how good of a pilot Isamu was.If they were to put two pilots of equal skill into the planes and test them,the YF-21 would have probably won,seeing as though it is better and if the pilots are at equal skill levels,then the YF-19 has no equalizer(great piloting) really,that would help it keep up with the YF-21

[orochi X]

well i reckon YF-19 would of won, it had a great pilot Isamu and it would be kinda dangerous piloting the YF-21 as in part 1 when Guld had those flash backs and lost control, i mean u would have to be really concerntrated on piloting it

[isamudyson]

In Macross 7, the VF-19 was the main valkyrie for the main squadrons while the VF-21 was used for special pilots like Max and Millia.

Also, the VF-21 requires alot more maintinece and upkeep because of it's neural interface with the pilot. The 19 is a better mass production plane with lower cost and upkeep.

[Black_Knight]

Macross 7? When did that happen? And weren't they all replaced by the Ghost Fighter?

BTW… It depends on the pilot… Fighters are the same in some aspects… But it always comes down to the pilot…

[jackal]

So then, aside from other cosmetic designs and the wings facing forwards instead of backwards, the VF-19's are identical to the YF-19's ??? Cause I have the model kit for the VF-19S and there's a whole thing on the inside of the box telling the history of how it came into mass production......but I can't read it..... :(

I'll just snatch a line from Bastard! and say the YF-19 would've kicked ass cause it was a better looking and so the YF-21 was doomed to fail from the start regardless :heh:

[death]

19 because i like it more.

But overall with the pilots as they are i still recon the 19 would win.

Guld just wouldent take teh risks needed to win.

[Black_Knight]

Well the YF-21 is better for long term missions… or solo flights… YF-19 is better in mass attacks…

[Dazman]

I just watched Macross Plus, and I reckon if Guld got over his personal issues before the final tests and peace was made between him and Isamu, the yf 21 would have won...

I don't think Guld was ever flying to his maximum capability because of emotional repression resulting from the incident with Myung seven years prior,

In my opinion Isamu in the yf 19 couldn't have beaten the Ghost, even by ramming it as Guld did! Besides prudence DOES have its benefits on occasion, and I think that would be the kind of quality that would shine the brightest in a controlled test atmosphere.

[Hiigaran]

Where is everyone coming up with this stuff about the 21 being better? It really isn't. The 19 handily beat it in every category...generally doubled the scores of the 21.

[Black_Knight]

Like I said… Which type of pilot should be with which? If it is more of a one who can keep calm in battle and have a clear mind throughout… The YF-21 IS suited for them… But if they are greater with reaction time (Or what ever Isamu was good at) they'd be better with the YF-19…


BTW… What ever happened to the YF-20?

[KAS]

I have just watched Macross Plus. I think that kicked some ass!

I think the YF-19 should have won(and it did). The graphs and most of the crew ppl even give it away. As for the ghost: I have to agree; that YF-19 wouldn't have had a hope in hell to beat the ghost. Guld would have been the only one close to it, even if he had to sayonara it's ass by kamikazeing.

Over all, total mind contol on a ship like those is not exactly a good idea. I think you need to have manual control for that "just in case" moment...

[EVA fiend]

Originally posted by isamudyson
YF-19 of course!

Nope..., the YF-21 shoulda won...., coz Guld Bowman is the better man...., :p

[isamudyson]

Originally posted by EVA fiend


Nope..., the YF-21 shoulda won...., coz Guld Bowman is the better man...., :p

Bah!!!!

I wonder why why the VF-19 is the elite valkyrie in Macross 7? Perhaps because it is the better valk?

You just have a crush on Guld, Fiend. :D

[EVA fiend]

Originally posted by isamudyson


Bah!!!!

You just have a crush on Guld, Fiend. :D

Maybe....., ;)

[Eddy]

Originally posted by EVA fiend


Maybe....., ;)

:rolleyes:

[sidewinder]

go VAF-6J ! oh wait.....that's mospeada.....it's still the best :D

[isamudyson]

The Legioss from Mospeada is cool, but this is the wrong thread for that.

[Black_Knight]

Er… so what happened to the YF-20?

[death]

Got its ass kicked in by the YF 19 of cause

[Valkyrie]

I know I'm new here and shouldn't say too much, but from what I can see there's little facts presented here other than opinions based on popularity, so here's my 2 cents with some facts:

From Ura:

Well it came down to Pilots. Isamu was a better pilot. He pushed the 19 harder than Guld did the 21. The 21 was a far superior plane though.

In the tests the 19 had pulled ahead of the 21 in the end. Though in my opinion Isamus the better pilot. The 21 is the better plane.

In fact from my limited Macross 7 Memory the 21s design was the plane adopted by the UN Spacey. Basara had the only 19.

That's hardly the case. The Super Nova project was based on the replacement of the VF-11, a fighter which forgoes sheer firepower for speed and manoeuvrebility. The YF-19 is better than the YF-21 in both categories. The YF-19 can manoeuvre/accellerate at 2.5 G's without assistance of FAST packs in atmosphere. The YF-21 under these conditions only rates at 2.1 G's. This is also excluding more important factors of resistance that is evident int the YF-21's structure in wing format and other peripherals. As for speed, the YF-19 has a 500km/hr advantage in combat speed and thus can combine its extra speed with superior firepower to out-perform and out-manoeuvre the YF-21.

The YF-21 however, does have some advantages, it has more firepower as it can carry a few more missiles as well as its active stealth system. The YF-19 still carries an ace up its sleeve with a better weapons platform like the MRHMM missile which out-ranges and out-performs most of the standard YF-21 missile armaments.

After the Sharon Apple incident, the YF-19 was declared the winner of the Super Nova Project and mass production of the design was shortly commenced. Better variants of the YF-19 (renamed to be VF-19) was slowly replacing the VF-11 in front line positions. However, due to their complexity and price, they were only given to the best of pilots. The YF-19 as also shown to be very versatile, being able to be customised to a variety of combat and even civilian situations. However, the YF-21 wasn't to be finished yet. Modified without the BDS it was later mass produced as the VF-22 Sturmvogel. With similar capabilities to the YF-21, it was still slower and less manoeuvreable than their VF-19 counterparts. But due to their extra payload, their strike ability is greatly appreciated and expert pilots like Max Genius, Gamlin and Miria Genuis prefer this firepower over the advantages the VF-19 series has. This is also mainly due to their superior piloting skills as well.

So to all those people saying things like "the YF-19 is better in mass attacks" and so forth: not true as both VF's have their advantages along with their smaller attributes.

From Dazman:

I just watched Macross Plus, and I reckon if Guld got over his personal issues before the final tests and peace was made between him and Isamu, the yf 21 would have won...

I don't think Guld was ever flying to his maximum capability because of emotional repression resulting from the incident with Myung seven years prior,

In my opinion Isamu in the yf 19 couldn't have beaten the Ghost, even by ramming it as Guld did! Besides prudence DOES have its benefits on occasion, and I think that would be the kind of quality that would shine the brightest in a controlled test atmosphere.

Macross Plus was and OVA expressing several themes like man over machine to the importance of balance within rationality and emotions. Guld had an aggressive disorder due to imbalance in hormones because of his Zentradi ancestry. However, he proved to be at his best when rational and calm. When taking those drugs, they suppressed both his anger/irrationality and thoughts. Thus the drugs were helping him retain his skills.

You also stated peace (emotional or otherwise) would help Guld in his piloting; but you must also see that Myung and Isamu also had this burden on their shoulders. Actually, more so due to the fact they knew the truth and the conflicting issues that would arise from it as they tried to protect Guld from his own mistakes. Saying Guld would be better than Isamu on these grounds is hardly accurate.

Guld was not as good as Isamu as even under similar circumstances, Isamu pulled through in every test category and in the real thing. The only possible reason why Isamu wouldn't be able to ram the X-9 ghost (which he might not had to do) is that the YF-21 is slightly more structurally stronger than the YF-19.

So I guess EVA fiend isn't altogether right on this one either. :)

As for Knight's "What happened to the YF-20?", what I can tell you is that military classifications isn't necessarily based on numbers. I mean, the US for example use the F-16, YF-17 and so on. But during previous years, they used F-104 and other similar classifications. The same applies within UNSPACY. UNSPACY used the VF-5000 prior to the VF-11 and numbers like the VF-15 and VF-18 don't exist either. So basing your VF's on numbers isn't the best idea to go by.

As for Mosepedia, they don't stand a chance against even VF-11's let alone VF-17's which are still behind these new VF's stated. Had to put that in, can't stand Robotech and don't like Legioss that much either. :heh:

Well, enough of me ranting, I'll just look around this site and try to make by. :)

Ja ne

[death]

Nicely put.

Though i do beleave that teh YF 21 shows up in macross 7. I havent seen it but thats what ive been told

[Valkyrie]

From Death:

Though i do beleave that teh YF 21 shows up in macross 7. I havent seen it but thats what ive been told

Like I've said before in my previous post, the VF-22 was the mass-produced version of the YF-21; without certain features like the BDS. Any designations of Y in Macross means prototype. Anything with V is the standard mass-produced version of that VF. Hence the YF-19 was the prototype of the VF-19 series. Thus the YF-21 was the prototype for the VF-22.

[isamudyson]

I can't really argue much about all that.

You get to see the results of Project Super Nova in Macross 7. Basara flies a VF-19, which is far better than the valks flown by the UN Spacy, which were still using the older VF-11's. The Macross 7 fleet launched a few years before the events of Macross Plus, so they had the older equipment. The events of Macross 7 take place a few years after Macross Plus, so the fleet is just starting to upgrade to VF-19's. You get to see this about halfway through when Emerald Squadran is equipped with 19's. If I remember correctly, Max flies a 22 at the end when he finally goes out and pilots a Valk. You also get to see Millia fly her old VF-1J when City 7 is seperated from Battle 7.

[Valkyrie]

Well, I don't see the point of your post in this one, Isamu, but you have to understand that the VF-19 is worth a few VF-11's. The VF alone is more than a small squad of VF-11's to mention training of pilots, maintainence and weapons. Hence only the best fly it. You also see Miria fly a VF-22 in Macross 7.

[death]

I think that you will find that its not actually that much nore complex then a Valk with FAST packs to maintain or arm.

[Valkyrie]

Well actually, AVF's are far more harder to maintain due to their new technological features. Such examples include active and passive radar systems, they need maintanence- money to get new tools and training for crews to maintain a completely new VF is also in order. Different spare parts which are more complex and expensive compared to a more simple VF-11 is needed. Weapons like certain missiles are also different in certain missions which means more money. All these factors contribute to the fact that these VF's are elite and will only slowly replace their older counterparts. They certainly are worth a squadron of VF's.

[death]

Think about that for a moment.

THe older parts would be harder to find as they ran out of production. The new tech would also require less down time for each component. The main problem would be retraining techs to service the aircraft. But that shouldent be to dificult.

[Valkyrie]

Uh Death, you really should look into the Macross history and Macross Plus for further proof.

For one thing, the YF-19 was actually more of a sucessful enterprise with the UNAF than UNSPACY. Note that in Macross 7 there were nearly no changes within main fighter squadrons: shows the price and maintainence of a VF-19 is worth far more than your statement because if your statements were true, many squadrons would be equiped with them.

VF-11's are used everywhere and are in hot demand- colonies and militias use VF-5000's which are below par of the VF-11 and would gladly have them if UNSPACY would actually call these VF's obsolete. Delta Wars showed VF-11's as the backbone of the UNSPACY and parts would obviously be cheaper than something so new as a VF-19. VF-11's are still in production due to its cheap maintainence and value in the battlefield.

Training and new weapons is a huge overhaul for a government the size of UNSPACY- such examples include militias still using VF-1's or VF-3000's as their primary form of defence against outsiders when the government uses VF-11's.

I have stated about new weapons and technology before and won't reiterate on it further. Overall, I find your points lacking relevance compared to these facts stated.

[Steathassasn]

VF-19...hands down ..then again...the VF-22 had the abilty to set up a decoy ..( rember...he looked like he got blasted away..and them came out of no where ) still..ihave to go with the 19

[Valkyrie]

Uhh Stealth, correct me if I' wrong, but you're talking about the final scene of Guld against the X-9, yeah?? That required getting rid of the limiter and made the VF useless in terms of combat except as a rather expensive battering ram.

[Steathassasn]

yeah..thats the scene im talking about...what was the "limiter " anyway..i thought it had to do with the nural sync the GUild was using ( i watch it for the robots..so excuse my lack of tecnical knowledge )

hum....guided missle ...:lol:

[Valkyrie]

The limiter was used to stop the breaking of the mind-link of the BDI. It also helped to stop reflex/instant mind-thought actions which immediately translate to the specified action of the thinker (hence the neural link). So when that's gone, the VF is more vulnerable in several situations. The BDI system wasn't that good either- only a few pilots could use it. The decoy was when the VF was hit and expended all unessential accessories for ramming and then the VF burst through the cloud of debris towards his attacker: more like a one ticket draw to me.

[Steathassasn]

that it is .but what a site...in the movie ..it went so fast that it practically melted its self ..what a way to go

roasted