Relationship of Forest Spirit and Nightwalker

[EVA Type-R]

Have you ever sat there and actually thought about Mononoke? If you have... Hah sh-t, you're almost as bad as me. But I was sitting here and watching Mononoke, and then it hit me. The Forest Spirit is the coolest looking thing in the world. Hah but aside from that...

Like the title said, I think that there's a special relationship between the Forest Spirit itself and the Nightwalker.

The Forest Spirit: God of Life and Death. He's known as the compassionate, mysterious, and loved badass. He chooses to give life... And he chooses to take life.

Nightwalker: Nobody really knows. He's the other form of the Forest Spirit... It's his (almost) indestructible form.

Now, here my theory comes into play. Maybe, and correct me if I'm wrong here, there's some sort of relationship different to the obvious between the two. This may sound stupid, but maybe the Forest Spirit (deer... thing) was the god form, and the Nightwalker was the demon form.

Here starts the spoilers.

At the end, where it became that big blob of angry goo, it was killing the entire forest. Recall when Nago for the first time came out and ran through the field when it was chasing Ashitaka. When it walked, it killed every plant that touched its body. It sucked the life out of it. You get where I'm going with this? When the big blob of angry goo touched anything, it would suck the life out of it. When it was the regular Nightwalker, I think it could control that or something. But when it got mad, it let its powers loose and destroyed everything in its path.

Am I actually getting somewhere with this theory or am I just BSing again?

[Butters]

Hey, thats not a bad theory. I agree with you - the Forest Spirit is the coolest looking thing. Nah, j/k :D Yeah it makes sense, but I'm a nitpickin kinda guy, howso is the Nightwalker a demon earlier on when Nago was spying on it. It wasn't really doing anything agressive until he lost his head [pardon the pun].

[EVA Type-R]

Well I did say that he had control over his body in Nightwalker form, but when he became that angry blob of goo, he lost control.

[Butters]

Ok. I understand now. You didn't really make it that clear in the first post.

[PenPen2]

The Forest Spirit is the ugliest thing ever... No... Seriously...

Know Santa and his 8 tiny reindeer? I think The Forest Spirit was a reject... Like he had an audition... And Santa looked at him... And just said, "Next." :P

And I do believe that the Nightwalker is The Forest Spirit's demon form... I just felt that way through watching it...

[Drizzten]

Says EVA Type-R:
Well I did say that he had control over his body in Nightwalker form, but when he became that angry blob of goo, he lost control.
In which case, I would say that becomes a metaphor for one of themes...that living in peace with others requires one to remain in control of one's self. "Mindless" activity only results in "mindless" destruction.

[EVA Type-R]

Skillfully backfires Drizzten

In which case, I would say that becomes a metaphor for one of themes...that living in peace with others requires one to remain in control of one's self. "Mindless" activity only results in "mindless" destruction.

Yes, but who's to say that his mind was in his head? The nightwalker's brain could have been near his pelvis, for all we know. The end suggested that he still had control of some sort of thought processing unit. You know, when Ashitaka held up the head and the Nightwalker stopped fighting and just took the head. You'd need some thought to do that.

[Black_Knight]

Originally posted by EVA Type-R


Yes, but who's to say that his mind was in his head? The nightwalker's brain could have been near his pelvis, for all we know. The end suggested that he still had control of some sort of thought processing unit. You know, when Ashitaka held up the head and the Nightwalker stopped fighting and just took the head. You'd need some thought to do that.

Well the Nightwalker's also a god… It takes more than a decapitation then to stop it… Controling its power on the other hand… That's a much different story…

[DarkPrimus]

All gods have power greater than normal beings, and the forest spirit, being the most important god around, had incomprehensable power, but did not use it, since it preferred to allow fate to run it's course. Of course, when you're head gets blown off, you're likely to get a little POed. After all, it's then that you realize that the humans no longer respect you, nor believe in your power, and what's a god without belief in power?

[Dastafarin]

Originally posted by EVA Type-R


Yes, but who's to say that his mind was in his head? The nightwalker's brain could have been near his pelvis, for all we know. The end suggested that he still had control of some sort of thought processing unit. You know, when Ashitaka held up the head and the Nightwalker stopped fighting and just took the head. You'd need some thought to do that.

Not necessarily. If it were to work like a magnet persay, the the decapitated body would be drawn to the head. It was simply searching for an attaction to the head which was cut off inside the box.

And also, your theory is interesting. I would have to agree, pointing out that the 'daemon' form only shows itself at night, a time associated with demonic happenings, and the God from appearing during sunlight hours, when light is thought to be holy.

[kaji]

I don't think that the nightwalker is a demon at all...

The forest spirit is the god of life and death, I don't know what it is when its in nightwalker form as it didn't happen very much...During the first time when the nightwalker came, i don't think the trees died...but when it became the Forest spirit every footstep brought life, but as soon as his hoof left the ground the life died...

But i think when the nightwalker lost its head, it became the god of death only, and not the god of life, cos the nightwalker was more black gooey substance but when the iron pot was opened it was green gooey substance that the head produced, meaning life perhaps..

[Phantom Angel]

hmm... i thought the forest spirit was very very cool. and now that i read this thread yes it is a possibility that the nightwalker could be its demon form, but I do not think that that is what they wanted to emphasize, because the forest spirit could be a demon and a god, like when it took moro's life and otaku's (i forget the names, i watched mononoke a looooong time ago) so i don't think the Nightwalker was intended as a demon form, although I do tend to think that the Forest Spirit was the gentler kinder side, and the nightwalker was the more destructive side.

When watching Mononoke I actually got the feeling that the Nightwalker was the actual god, and the Forest Spirit was only its form during the day. Something like a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hide thing. But hey, your theory is pretty cool, and very plausible. I never quite thought about it like that.

[EVA Type-R]

Sorry to bring this thread back after so long, but I still have opinions on this.

Originally posted by kaji
I don't think that the nightwalker is a demon at all...

The forest spirit is the god of life and death, I don't know what it is when its in nightwalker form as it didn't happen very much...During the first time when the nightwalker came, i don't think the trees died...but when it became the Forest spirit every footstep brought life, but as soon as his hoof left the ground the life died...

But i think when the nightwalker lost its head, it became the god of death only, and not the god of life, cos the nightwalker was more black gooey substance but when the iron pot was opened it was green gooey substance that the head produced, meaning life perhaps..

Kaji, you forget that a demon is a result of the hate and pain a god experiences. In exchange for their hate, they give away their power to control it. It's kind of like the whole square and rectangle thing. A god is not necessarily always a demon, but a demon is always a god (or goddess).

Or maybe the Night Walker had control of all its powers of death. And like DarkPrimus said, how can you be a god if no one believes in your power? So the NightWalker was taken over by its fear, and it released its dormant demon powers. And then it finally started killing everyone.

Hmm... The colors, Duke! The colors!

[Ko Hakaisha]

Stop quoting popsicle commercials. O.o

Anyways, I think of it as the Forest Spirit is the God of Life and Death, and the Nightwalker is the God of Death and Life. Arguably the same thing, but I think that the first thing listed in their title is the thing they emphasized. After all, throughout the movie, the Forest Spirit did give more life than he took. The most life he took was when he first appeared and breathed on a flower. Occasionally, when he would walk, he would have plants spring to life when he placed his foot on the ground, and they would die when he raised his foot. This doesn't always happen, though ...

Also, the Nightwalker is often portrayed as the Forest Spirit's antithesis. What is the antithesis of a creature who gaves life or takes life at its whim? That's kind of a hard question. In my opinion, it would be a creature that takes life or gives life at its whim. [shrug] The same, but with different tendancies.

Anyways, my measly thoughts on the matter. ^^

[Phantom Angel]

KO!!!! long time no see. heh, your theory makes sense, but hey, they all do! somewhat!

[UNITMK1]

I don't think that the Nightwalker was a demon, sicne when he walked through the forest at the beginning, he didn't leave a trail of dead trees and animals behind him. And the goo was probably caued by the fact that he didn't have a head and was preety mad. I mean wouldn't you get p!ssed if someone took your head?

I watched this such a long time ago, so I don't know if I got the facts right...

[Phantom Angel]

u did

[EVA Type-R]

Originally posted by Ko Hakaisha
Stop quoting popsicle commercials. O.o

Anyways, I think of it as the Forest Spirit is the God of Life and Death, and the Nightwalker is the God of Death and Life. Arguably the same thing, but I think that the first thing listed in their title is the thing they emphasized. After all, throughout the movie, the Forest Spirit did give more life than he took. The most life he took was when he first appeared and breathed on a flower. Occasionally, when he would walk, he would have plants spring to life when he placed his foot on the ground, and they would die when he raised his foot. This doesn't always happen, though ...

Also, the Nightwalker is often portrayed as the Forest Spirit's antithesis. What is the antithesis of a creature who gaves life or takes life at its whim? That's kind of a hard question. In my opinion, it would be a creature that takes life or gives life at its whim. [shrug] The same, but with different tendancies.

Anyways, my measly thoughts on the matter. ^^

Well really, we never saw the true purpose of the Night Walker. We never saw the Night Walker's true powers when he was NOT angry. Therefore, we can't really categorize the nightwalker as the god of anything. If you remember, Nago and the other old boar guy (forgot his name... Something that started with a U I think... O.o) made everything they touched excessively burn and eventually kill them. Same thing that happened with the nightwalker when he was angry. Everything he touched was killed; Trees, Kodamas, etc.

As for the Nightwalker being the antithesis of the Forest spirit... Maybe... Forest Spirit was a god, Nightwalker was a demon. ;)

[Revell7156]

quote:
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Says EVA Type-R:
Well I did say that he had control over his body in Nightwalker form, but when he became that angry blob of goo, he lost control.
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Now... if u think about it... the guy lost his head!:eek:
Now... wouldn't u get kinda crazy if u lost YOUR head? Hmmm... something to think about?!

[John Faulkner]

Now, here my theory comes into play. Maybe, and correct me if I'm wrong here, there's some sort of relationship different to the obvious between the two. This may sound stupid, but maybe the Forest Spirit (deer... thing) was the god form, and the Nightwalker was the demon form.
Well really, we never saw the true purpose of the Night Walker. We never saw the Night Walker's true powers when he was NOT angry. Therefore, we can't really categorize the nightwalker as the god of anything. If you remember, Nago and the other old boar guy (forgot his name... Something that started with a U I think... O.o) made everything they touched excessively burn and eventually kill them. Same thing that happened with the nightwalker when he was angry. Everything he touched was killed; Trees, Kodamas, etc.

As for the Nightwalker being the antithesis of the Forest spirit... Maybe... Forest Spirit was a god, Nightwalker was a demon. ;)
Interesting issue about the relationship between the two forms of the Shishi Gami - Forest Spirit and Nightwalker (latter includes the period where everything was being destroyed, according to this thread, although that is not clear). You hypothesize that the former is a "god" and the latter a "demon". However, a "god" (in the capacity of a super-natural concept) can be destructive as well, with a dual aspect of both "good" and "evil" qualities (cf. the Yahweh concept in the Old Testament - hijacked by Christianity as representing the Supreme Good). Thus, it is likely the Forest Spirit and the Nightwalker are two sides of the same coin. The coin in question is the symbolic guardian of the forest, which itself could be argued to be symbolic of "nature"/"that not made by humans".

Undisturbed, it is the driving force behind the daily cycle of the forest - governing the life and death of animals, causing the flowers to sprout from its feet, etc. Now, this form was decimated by Eboshi's gun. What can this mean? That the forest has lost its spiritual guardian and now the formerly magical causation of the natural cycle of the forest has collapsed, as alluded to by Miyazaki, using a parallel to history:

"I think that the Japanese did kill Shishi Gami around the time of the Muromachi era. And then, we stopped being in awe of forests."
The form of the Shishi Gami changes to a homogeneous, gelatinous mass - in fact form is not quite the correct term - it is formless: the "god" concept has been smashed and the energy and importance invested into this concept has been released. To be replaced by what? To what new concepts, ideas and motivations will the energy now be used for? The possibility of total human domination beckons as the forbidden magic circle fades and can now be encroached upon with renewed vigour (possibility represented by whole forest being swamped by gelatinous mass). Cue Ashitaka and San, who step in and restore some sort of moderating principle. By giving the head back, they acknowledge the meaning behind the "god" concept which does not rely on fear or taboo. They save "god" and by doing so, confirm their power as the new gods. Yet by saving "god" and acknowledging the aforementioned meaning, they grant the meaning behind the "god" concept space to breath. They could easily have let it die, which would herald unrestrained human domination.

So the underlying point? The characters can no longer look at the forest as a magical place that cannot be exploited. Yet this does not necessarily have to open the path to an uncontrolled exploitation for the benefit of mankind: this is because of the principle of sustainability embodied by Ashitaka and San. Part of the meaning of the "god" concept is retained, although its exterior form is shed due to enlightenment. The road ahead is still uncertain. This is because, as Miyazaki says,

When we recognize that even living humbly destroys nature, we don't know what to do.