Boogiepop Phantom :: discussion with spoilers

[heart havok]

alright! all you others, buy it, rent it.. WHATEVER

but we need a discussion going!! i should be rewatching the series this week... and i'll start posting my ponderances.

SPOILERS BELOW!!!!!!!!!!
















so far the only thing that i don't really get is how the hell the Boogiepop Phantom came to be exactly. the whole time, we are made to believe the Boogiepop Phantom us the Boogiepop. yet she describes the later of the two previously mentioned as "my original"... she says she was born "that day of the column of light" yet at the end, it shows the Boogiepop being 'created' {so to speak} that day. so i'm blank of theory. =\






























SPOILERS ABOVE!!!!!!!!

[kirbystar]

i really have no idea... what i'm confused about is:

******SPOILER******













was there only one 'light incident'? one evolved human death? i was thinking manaka dying and the light they showed at the very beginning were two separate events.. they looked completely different anyway.. if so, whose death created the first light? saotome??

also toka (as boogiepop) said she killed saotome.. why'd she go and do that? also where'd she get that funky hat? and how'd she become boogiepop in the first place.. she absorb some sort of power from kuroda's cloak?? or wait.. her parents said she was possessed by a fox spirit?! huh

so confused...

i love it!! :D













******END SPOILER******



maybe we need a separate spoiler thread for this? :b

[heart havok]

okay, Kirby suggested this in the already going Boogiepop Thread, and i agree it's a good idea... so here it is. serious discussion only.. go to the other thread for silly chat about "it's cool" and whatnot, go to the other one. if you want a Boogiepop chit chat thread WITH spoilers, then go make another thread. and if you want a "i hate Boogiepop" thread, then make your own for that too. ^_~

so... shall we be off then? good.






first of all, i appologize ahead of time for my lack of knowledge on character names. -_-
meanwhile, in this mess of pronouns...
i have now given half {plus some} the series a re-viewing, and these are the ideas i've picked up.













i don't believe the column of light was due to the death of an evolved human, because the "serial killer" gives us reason to believe he was an evolved human, and as far as my observations, he wasn't the one who was killed during the "light incident." i believe he stopped the killings before that "one month ago" period.

as for Saotome being killed by Boogiepop.. perhaps he was the evolved human who was killed {thus creating the column of light}

putting that to the side, i believe that [she who is later Boogiepop Phantom] was at that time possessed by Manticore, which would explain why there's the scene with Boogiepop killing her {with the dartwhip around her neck} and which could also explain Saotome's being there, as he had a thing with her.

i didn't quite grasp what was on the idea of Toka taking Kuroda's cloak {with the exception that it's her costume}.. her hat, maybe it's magic, like Frosty the Snowman's ^_~

i believe Toka got her powers from being "possess".. but perhaps rather than being possessed by a fox, she may have been possessed by DEATH. perhaps Death needed a physical body? ..a host? kinda' like Venom from Spiderman :heh:

Manaka dying? {can't remember from name} i'll have to watch it again and look for the name. don't worry, a few more viewings and i will have remembered all the names ^_~

i would suggest that the first light was [later Boogiepop Phantom] but it shows the light over Saotome. i don't know.

i must say though, i love this series... nothing in the world in media has ever had me confused! :)


i love it
::insert devious smile here::

[kirbystar]

okay hehe.. to start off, manaka was the butterfly girl.
i know i have serious problems with these names and faces, too.

that said, do you think there were two columns of light or just that one?

people being possessed sure would explain a lot though :) i guess i was taking it too realistically, thinking any abnormality would have some sort of vaguely realistic explanation: experimental drugs, evolution, man-made..things (composite humans) etc. toka said she was put in the prefectural hospital though for being possessed, right? maybe it was a drug that gave her powers, then? i wonder why the inside of her cape looks so cool though, hehe :)

hm, i need to find those few fragmented scenes that actually show detail of the light incident from inside the building.. i remember they showed someone jumping into it but i can't remember who

oh another thing that confused me was in "my fair lady", somebody kills that wacky girl with the red tinted glasses who was selling the type S, and then they show some schoolgirl eating her.. i couldn't figure out who it was since the scene was so dark but it looked kiiiiinda like boogiepop phantom (?!) if she was possessed by the manticore like you said, that would explain it.. but the phantom said she chose that face at random? and the manticore was there in saotome's body at the same time.. can it do that? but crap, now i don't remember when that scene took place, so it could have been the real saotome?? aaahhhh!!

dang i need to get more of my friends to watch it. or at least some more people here replying! where is everyone?? :b

i too have only re-watched bits and pieces of half of it since i saw the ending.. i'll have to do a more thorough reviewing sometime soon.

[Drizzten]

*hides eyes from spoilers*

[Merging thread.]

[heart havok]

first off, thanks Drizz... hope you didn't accidently see any of those spoilers :(

for others reading this, before Kirby's last post, the posts are in reverse order. meanwhile... shall we continue then?

Originally posted by kirbystar
that said, do you think there were two columns of light or just that one?

there's two! :) one for Saotome {i believe, as he is in the center of it} and another perhaps is from Manaka. i have yet to rewatch that part though. {curses his lack of time.}

Originally posted by kirbystar
people being possessed sure would explain a lot though :) i guess i was taking it too realistically, thinking any abnormality would have some sort of vaguely realistic explanation: experimental drugs, evolution, man-made..things (composite humans) etc. toka said she was put in the prefectural hospital though for being possessed, right? maybe it was a drug that gave her powers, then? i wonder why the inside of her cape looks so cool though, hehe :)


i think Toka and Boogiepop are definitely two seperate identities.. and Boogiepop, i'm almost 99.99% certain IS supernatural in some way shape or form... because in the comentary, they describe her as the "boogieman"... the thing that comes in the night for bad people... you remember that old old legend? or perhaps she really is DEATH? or perhaps they are implying the boogieman {Boogiepop} really is death.

Originally posted by kirbystar
hm, i need to find those few fragmented scenes that actually show detail of the light incident from inside the building.. i remember they showed someone jumping into it but i can't remember who

yeah, i recall that as well.. nor do i remember who, but he looked like he was going after Saotome.

Originally posted by kirbystar
oh another thing that confused me was in "my fair lady", somebody kills that wacky girl with the red tinted glasses who was selling the type S, and then they show some schoolgirl eating her.. i couldn't figure out who it was since the scene was so dark but it looked kiiiiinda like boogiepop phantom (?!)
if she was possessed by the manticore like you said, that would explain it.. but the phantom said she chose that face at random? and the manticore was there in saotome's body at the same time.. can it do that? but crap, now i don't remember when that scene took place, so it could have been the real saotome?? aaahhhh!!

yes, it most certainly was [she who is later known as Boogiepop Phantom]... they even say that on the Commentary. i believe it may be the manticore... or perhaps, rather... maybe it's ECHOES!!!! they only mention Echoes a bit, and 'he' has only three lines or so... but maybe it's Echoes. they do mention that Manticore has to follow around Echoes. or perhaps Echoes is Saotome and Manticore is she? i don't know.. but i think i'm getting closer.. i hadn't thought about that before.
Originally posted by kirbystar
dang i need to get more of my friends to watch it. or at least some more people here replying! where is everyone?? :b

i don't know, it's very unfortunate.. but i'm sure some will be here soon. my brother has seen it, and my friend Dan, but they aren't willing to discuss it -_- they love anime, but don't find need to go into such analyctic views and depths for it. hense why i come to AB ^_~ meanwhile, give people time, and we'll get some great people in here... like Drizz, i'm certain ^_~ if he hasn't seen it by July, i'll show it to him when i see him.
Originally posted by kirbystar
i too have only re-watched bits and pieces of half of it since i saw
the ending.. i'll have to do a more thorough reviewing sometime soon.

yeah, i'll try to get to that too... it'd be alot easier if i didn't associate with people like i used to be. but i've a girl and a few friends and a job and things now, so unfortunately, they steal my Anime time.

good discussing it with you though... it's a pleasure ^_~ adieu.

[The cruel angel's thesis]

I've seen the whole series, but I still barely understand anything. ¬¬ I'll just post one incredibly stupid question that I have... what exactly are the butterflies for? (It's pretty sad that I didn't catch it I'm sure)

[Nairohe]

First and foremost, I'm freakin confused as to who's who and who did what since the characters all look the same and barely have any distinguishing features to set them apart.... This handy dandy character list is pretty reliable (at least I agree with most of the description and go, "oh, right! He was that guy... i think...")

http://john.trev.org/boogiepop/char.html

1. THERE ARE TWO BOOGIE POPS?!!!

As far as I can tell, there's Nagi and there's toka. I've already forgotten where Toka came from... who's she again?

2. The Pillar of lights.

Manaka was one of the evolved humans. The last form of evolution happens to be the pillar of light.

3. My Fair Lady.

Remember that girl who ATE the girl who was selling the S-type drug? I'm pretty sure that was nagi... or by the way she was behaving... someone who was 'pretending' to be Nagi... was that Nagi?!!!

4. Who's the manticore? how did the manticore get to that city? what is a manticore?

5. About Manaka's mother.

The butterflies that Manaka created happened to be 'people's memories. If you watched the 2nd to the last episode where she dies, she dispells several butterflies and sending them to people. I think the purpose was to 'correct' what she had done wrong, or at least an attempt to do so. She caused her mother to loose her memory when she was born as well.

Why wasn't it possible for her to return her mother's memory?

more rants to come after I watch this straight through so i get accustomed to the actions and not their faces... They should've stuck to the manga style... its easier to distinguish which is which and who's who... the anime made everyone look the same darnit!!!

[heart havok]

Originally posted by Cruel Angel's Thesis
I've seen the whole series, but I still barely understand anything. ¬¬ I'll just post one incredibly stupid question that I have... what exactly are the butterflies for? (It's pretty sad that I didn't catch it I'm sure)
they are described in the commentary as "memories of the future"

Originally posted by Nairohe
First and foremost, I'm freakin confused as to who's who and who did what since the characters all look the same and barely have any distinguishing features to set them apart.... This handy dandy character list is pretty reliable (at least I agree with most of the description and go, "oh, right! He was that guy... i think...")

http://john.trev.org/boogiepop/char.html

yeah, it's kinda' frustrating with so many characters...
Originally posted by Nairohe
1. THERE ARE TWO BOOGIE POPS?!!!

As far as I can tell, there's Nagi and there's toka. I've already forgotten where Toka came from... who's she again?

i guess it's best to clear this up sooner so that it's not misunderstood later. there is only ONE Boogiepop. yet, there is also the Boogiepop Phantom. entirely different. Boogiepop is Toka. she plays more part than Nagi IMO.
Originally posted by Nairohe
2. The Pillar of lights.

Manaka was one of the evolved humans. The last form of evolution happens to be the pillar of light.
perhaps. i have more reason to believe it's the death, however.
Originally posted by Nairohe
3. My Fair Lady.

Remember that girl who ATE the girl who was selling the S-type drug? I'm pretty sure that was nagi... or by the way she was behaving... someone who was 'pretending' to be Nagi... was that Nagi?!!!
no, that's Minako Yurihara... Boogiepop Phantom before she was Boogiepop Phantom.
Originally posted by Nairohe
4. Who's the manticore? how did the manticore get to that city? what is a manticore?
at one point, it is in Saotome's body. before the "One month ago" pillar of light, i believe it was in Minako's body. how?? who knows. what?? a creature that feeds on peoples' lives. i imagine some form of daemon.







i've not much to comment on Manaka yet... perhaps after my nExt viewing. and perhaps after i finish watching with the commentary.

[heart havok]

::boot::

[cloakactive]

Someone correct me If I'm wrong.... but all the episodes all center around one particular day right (or several days??? :confused2) All the episodes contained all happen within a certain time right? All within 24-48 hours? Or was it over the time span of a year (a friend said a year... but the whole time I watched I was under the impression of a day).... (Not including any of the flashbacks)

A little help with time please? :heh:

[Nairohe]

they had those "3 years ago" scenes too though... but I get the impression that the series happened within a 2 or 3 period span. There was that light incident....
then the students talking about what happened 'yesterday.'
then on the very last episode, that happened a year later from the 'light incident' when boogie pop killed the very last manticore.

[cloakactive]

One other thing... the story was told backwards?!? :confused2 Thats the impression I got anyways...

**edit** Clarification... thats the feel of what i got, but i know that it was not presented in that fasion.

[Nairohe]

the webmaster only worked up till episode 9 for the timeline....

http://john.trev.org/boogiepop/episodes.html

but i do need to rewatch it and take notes next time to be sure.... ehehehe.... the event happened all at the same time from different perspectives... there were some 'slight' changes in time but the stories were told from different perspectives.

[cloakactive]

OooOOo.... that definitely helps out. The last Manticore was killed... and then all those kids had their powers. I was really confused up untill the end (just finished watching the last episode as of 2 minutes ago). And with the aide of that little timeline, I at least have the times all straightened out. :)

So many question come to mind, but I can't grasp any of them at this time.... I'll post later on as it comes to mind. :dodgy:

[heart havok]

5 years ago
3 years ago
1 month ago
yesterday
present
::insert random dates here::
1 year later

none of the story is really told "backwards" or "forward" but rather, enirely mismatched. episode 1 is a flashback of Moto looking back on everything.. meanwhile we have episode 4 which is almost entirely before everything.