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GigaSheep
20-03-02, 11:30 AM
Hi folks...

I'd like to start a post for Boogiepop fans to discuss the plot of the show.

Let's start with this:

SHINPEI KURODA'S STORY

It seems to me that the body from which the column of light (Echoes) erupts is that of Shinpei Kuroda. Echoes was within him at the time, and escaped as light.

The real Kuroda was killed five years ago after he injected Nagi with the Towa Organization's drug. As Kuroda left Nagi's hospital room, he was killed by a Towa agent (as seen in episode 12).

Toka found his body, flipped out, developed a Boogiepoop personality, and took Kuroda's cloak (more discussion on this another time). Kuroda was then resurrected by Manaka from the future, since she can transcend time, when she 'makes' him (as she did poom-poom), to hold her hand just before her death in episode 11. As explained to Kuroda/Manticore by Boogiepop later in episode 12, "the girl that brought back the past created you/that girl's power brought you back to life at that moment".

We can assume that Kuroda had always been hyper-evolving, and indeed WAS ALWAYS ECHOES. This is because in episode 11 we see a flashback of Towa scientists explaining how they have crippled Kuroda's speech ability, while he is trapped on a crucifix-like stand. Notice that they NAME HIM ECHOES *at that point* ("your name will be echoes"). This, then, was not always his name; the Organization only punished Kuroda once he evolved to the 'dangerous' point of "higher intelligence".

Echoes/Kuroda later escapes to track down the Manticore (as told in ep5), and is encouraged by Boogiepop ('you are searching for something...' ep8) leading to the light explosion event. The light shoots up from a wounded Kuroda. We can assume that the cut on his head was madeby Nagi, given the short "Echoes-eye-view" of Nagi slashing with a knife that we are given in ep11.

This explains why Boogiepoop Phantom told Nagi "YOU took down the Manticore", since SHE freed the light that scattered Echoes and Manticore's consciousness. (Boogiepop, who was there strangling Minako, was scanned by the light which thus created her Phantom.)

After the explosion, Kuroda is an empty shell but nevertheless still alive. He crawls around bleeding, and almost dies again in the streets. As Boogiepop says in ep12, it "should have ended there", but Manaka finds Kuroda lying there (ep11) and keeps him going. She presumably returns his memories but, muddled by the trauma, Kuroda thinks he is Ichiro Kishida. This one of his alternate detective identities, as Boogiepop explains in episode 12.

So, after the light and his subsequent revival, Kuroda thinks he is the journalist, as in episode 8. During a key scene in the episode, the weakened Manticore jumps into Kuroda's nearby body before he leaves for Tokyo. Manaka calls back Kuroda/Echoes one last time in ep.11, where they hold hands and the combination of Echoes within them makes the huge light flood that clears the electromagnetic field.

And in the final episode, it is the residual Echoes in Kuroda that brings out the Manticore from within so Boogiepop can kill them both.

NB: Neither Kuroda nor Manaka necessarily had any speech (echo) problems until the Towa Organization punished Kuroda's end-stage evolution.

Does this sound right to everyone? opinions?

peace

GIGASHEEP

Nairohe
20-03-02, 12:25 PM
I am confused... terribly confused. My memory is scarred but THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE!!! ^^

anyhoo... um...

-The real Kuroda was killed five years ago after he injected Nagi with the Towa Organization's drug.

-kuroda's body is 'assumed' to have been revived with 'echoes'

-light explosion happens (I honestly dont know if THAT was kuroda. but quite possibly it was him since the guy who jumped into the light WAS Saotome who happened to be going out with Minako(THE manticore) at the time.

Now these were the events that happened during the light explosion:

Manticore switches from Minako's body to Saotome's body. Boogiepop PHANTOM then copies boogiepop and takes MINAKO's form.
Kuroda's body had echoes. light incident 'released' echoes and transferred 'echoes' to MANAKA. who happened to have been dying at the time.


-Boogiepop and boogiepop phantom later chase down the manticore. They find him, trapped inside Saotome's body. He escapes into a light and eventually transfers into Kuroda's body.



just a few questions and clarifications.

1. Kuroda 'retained' his being as 'echoes' and merely released 'traces' of 'echoes' during the light incident? He didn't transfer to a host the way the manticore took Saotome's body or the way boogiepop phantom took Minako's body?

2. Who does Kuroda work for? is he part of the secret organization? What was Nagi to him?

3. Was it residues of Echoes that boogiepop was collecting through those 'special kids?'

GigaSheep
20-03-02, 02:18 PM
please re-read my message.. I TOTALLY re-edited it and fleshed it out after some heavy re-watching. I'm pretty sure it's correct

GigaSheep
20-03-02, 02:23 PM
Even though Kuroda was always 'echoes' from the get-go(although that wasn't his given name at that point in the story... i guess from the production notes that his original name was 'Scarecrow').

Nagi and Kuroda were flirting around the time Nagi was first admitted to the hospital. We see this in Ep.2.

And yes, we know from Ep.5 that Kuroda worked for the Towa Organization. We later infer that he was in fact one of their creations...

heart havok
20-03-02, 08:55 PM

heart havok
20-03-02, 09:02 PM
excelent synopsis from the KURODA PoV, GigaSheep! i must say, i am grealty looking foward to your joining us here.

unfortunately, i have yet to focus much on Kuroda's role in the series yet, as i found most my interests focusing on ECHOES {as a sole character}, BOOGIEPOP PHANTOM, SPOOKY ELECTRIC, SNAKE EYES, MANTICORE, et cetera... none the less, i will add thigns i've noticed thru my own observations.

first thing, i believe SCARECROW and ECHOES are greatly two different characters. {based on reviews i've read} the only problem with this series is that it doesn't focus on ECHOES nearly as much as the Novels and film do. apparently, we don't get half the story on him that we should. meanwhile, i certainly believe that ECHOES {the forced final stage of evolution} transfers his consciousness to host in MANAKA's body. from what i recall, i do recall it showing BOOGIEPOP kill ECHOES.. and i also recall ECHOES and KURODA looking greatly different. also, another thing to note, is that during the collumn of light, ECHOES still has his head ^_~

i'm not saying you're wrong though, just simply pointing out things i'd made note of. certainly, it will take many more viewings of decyphering which one of my observations and which of your's are taking place more precisely... but i'm sure you, Nairohe, and i can work together to get all of this sorted out.

another thing i'd noticed, is that indeed, KURODA is dead at some point FIVE YEARS AGO when TOKA takes his Piwafwi to become BOOGIEPOP. also, they mention NAGI's death? ..interesting.

to answer Nairohe...
NAGI's relation with KURODA, i believe, is mostly that he was her first love/crush. and mostly that. if she did kill KURODA, then that explains another part of their connection. if she at any time was indeed BOOGIEPOP {a theory brought up in another thread}, then that's definitely another part of their connection. of course, these are all too difficult to tell at this point. i still need to have many more viewings, myself. ^_~

as for "residues" of ECHOES, i believe ECHOES was entirely transfered to MANAKA's body.



overall, however, i think GigaSheep has a magnificent catch on what's going on with KURODA... wonderful observations and contributions. i'm sure there's more i could point out, but i'm low on time.

welcome again, GigaSheep :)

GigaSheep
20-03-02, 09:51 PM
As far as the decapitation thing goes, check my latest reply on the other post.

Echoes as Kuroda look exactly the same, in my opinion. Same hairstyle and clothing too.

I'm not saying that Scarecrow and Echoes are the same, but within the timeframe of the show 'Echoes' was always within Kuroda. I wouldn't be surprised if Echoes' real name is Panuru... who knows?

but Nagi's death? where is that mentioned!?

heart havok
21-03-02, 07:24 PM
all perception of course, but i didn't think ECHOES and KURODA looked all that much alike. other than the fact that just about everyone in this series looks like ^_~ hah

i personally believe that it's greatly possible ECHOES was KURODA though. but if that was so, i think after that collumn of light, ECHOES is definitely inside MANAKA.

Panuru... indeed, for all we know, he could be ^_~

as for Nagi being dead. i'll focus on finding the line when it's said nExt time i get the chance to look for it {maybe as soon as tonight}, and i'll come back here immediately after to post what line and which episode and scene it's in.

GigaSheep
23-03-02, 01:34 PM
I agree that echoes transfers to manaka.

i cant find any mention of nagi's death though...

heart havok
24-03-02, 03:24 AM
i'll point it here as soon as i REfind it. i recall it very well though, because there's one single line that is very clear on it. and that's the only line that points to it at all. sorry, only wish i had more time to put in to Boogiepop as i did Lain.