watching "Chronicles.." - FINALLY - to view obsene comments, CLICK HERE.

[heart havok]

i'm totally ------- pissed!!

what the ---- did the ------- SLAYERS team do to Record of Lodoss War!?!?!??!

seriously, they've got some nerve fuckering it up like that.

nah, it's not entirely THAT bad. the opening and closings are ------- beautiful, the musical score of the Television series is much better. the animation? ehhh sometimes it's better, sometimes it's much worse. the Dubs are WAY worse {J+E}. the story is all fuckered. grrrrr...

i've only just finished the first disc... and i LOVE that they are going into Orson's background, as he was always one of my favourite characters. it's a shame they make him look terrible though -_-

and Ashram looks terrible too. Parn looks better, can't wait to see the new characters later on. but man, it's pretty pathetic continuation. i understand they are making up for lost plotholes and editing of the OVAs to make them fit in 13eps... but it's done TERRIBLY HORRIBLY not well at all. blegh.

and the ------- "comedy" scetches in the end? that's entirely ------- SLAYERS bullfuck. argh, that pisses me off. i dispise that they are doing that... i always enjoyed RoLW for its serious medieval fantasy and D&D feel, and they are making it SLAYERS with RoLW characters -_- blegh... it's ugly. i was really looking forward to seeing this series too.

oh well, i'll still watch it simply because it's Lodoss..very glad i didn't waste money on the damned Boxset though like i was going to. meanwhile, any comments on how the story may get? or the mood?

all i have to say, is after this series, i'm DEFINITELY watching Berzerk in an all-nighter.

[Dark Genesis]

Let's take bets on how soon this will be modded. :D

[EVA fiend]

There, there havok..., I can see where you're coming from..., I'm not a big fan of the TV series either...., but I don't see it as a continuation of the OAV series..., I see the TV series as a re-working of the original OAV..., it's the only way I can watch it without pointing out all the inaccuracies, & plot inconsistancies, & not bursting into flame....,

[Dark Genesis]

You'll feel better if you combine all sorts of little extras, like the novels, mangas, etc :) That gives you a lot better picture of Lodoss.

P.S. Don't touch Legend of Crystiania (sp?) then. I'd hate to see what you thought of that bombshell ;)

[EVA fiend]

Originally posted by Dark Genesis
P.S. Don't touch Legend of Crystiania (sp?) then. I'd hate to see what you thought of that bombshell ;)

For the appaling animation alone, that show should be buried under 10 tonnes of rubble, never to see the light of day again...., it's utter bollocks...., :vomit:

[Dark Genesis]

Chronicles at least has some redeeming value. I just seriously don't want Havok touching that at ALL if this is his reaction to it ^^

[Robotech Master]

Geez, I don't know what everyone's problem with the TV series is. I'm serious, every time I hear someone complain about the TV series in comparison to the OVA I want to go over there, reach into Hammerspace, and smack them over the head with some giant mallet.

And to speak of innaccuracies and how "Its stupid because its not a continuation of the OVA story" is only demeaning of you yourself. It doesn't make you stupid, but it proves your ignorance.

Even if your opinion is that the OVA was better, its still proper to say that the OVA was an improvement. The TV series plot came first.

Chronicles follows the Novels people, I can't stress that more seriously. Lodoss War was not born as an anime. Get that through your mind. It was influenced by Western D&D games, and then became a D&D style game itself. The Roleplaying game became a series of Novels, including the Main Record Of Lodoss War plot which was 7 novels.

13 episodes, CAN NOT, WILL NOT, and SHOULD NOT fill 7 novels worth of material into itself.

The OVA was different, faithful only to Novel 1 and then erasing many details and characters from the story to fit into the final 5 episodes.

The TV series follows the Novels. So in my idea, since the Novels came first, and since Ryo Mizuno's written works are CANON, the decision to follow the novels plotline was justified.

And while you all complain about the TV series, you'd be surprised to find that I can point you to a number online arguments of people who love the OVA, but think that the TV series is vastly superior.

RE: Chronicles at least has some redeeming value. I just seriously don't want Havok touching that at ALL if this is his reaction to it ^^

I think it has quite a lot of redeeming values, enough to make it a very good series. I think the OVA is better, but the TV series is still a good series in my opinion. Havok, truthfully, doesn't deserve to touch upon such things as he is basing his entire review of the series on the first volume alone.

And I don't care what you say, the Battle of Fire Dragon Mountain in Chronicles absolutely kicks the ass of the OVA Fire Dragon mountain battle into orbit.

And the series isn't NEARLY as comical as the Slayers series. The TV series may still have some comical elements thrown in every once and a while, but they are still very much 2 sides of the same coin.

[Dark Genesis]

Yeah, that's how I feel, w/o the incredible ammount of detail :D

[heart havok]

first of all, Robotech... i am not ignorant, as i already knew that the television series is much more accurate to the original novels than the OVA... i also knew that it was based on the D&D RPG.

second, i'm definitely over-reacting.

thirdly, i've only made it thru the first disc, so i am trusting that there's alot that can get greater. such as Orson's story along with many of the other details they are adding in {such as your mentioned Battle of Fire Dragon Mountain}.

as for SLAYERS being commical? i suppose. i think it's utter crap. {i.e.: NOT FUNNY.} and Chronicles.. i find to be just as equally NOT FUNNY. the animation, i also see {most times -granted there are some things that look wonderous} very unfit for the atmosphere of Lodoss.

Robotech Master
RE: Chronicles at least has some redeeming value. I just seriously don't want Havok touching that at ALL if this is his reaction to it ^^

I think it has quite a lot of redeeming values, enough to make it a very good series. I think the OVA is better, but the TV series is still a good series in my opinion. Havok, truthfully, doesn't deserve to touch upon such things as he is basing his entire review of the series on the first volume alone.


as for these lovely comments of your's, i'd already seen Legend of Crystania quite some time ago. i found nothing upsetting about it either... other than indeed, the animation. ::cough::
i consider myself to have a greatly open mind. especially considering the Lodoss MANGA is the only MANGA i have collected entirely to date as well. notice, i wasn't commenting that the TVseries is "untrue to the story" or "inaccurate" but rather i was disliking how they were breaking apart the timeline and story they had already edited and warped into the OVA. i was greatly pleased with the way they turned out the OVA, and i think it's a shame that they are trying to add so much into the TVseries. alot of it is unneeded and seems like utter filler IMO. most importantly, however.. if you would have PAYED ATTENTION, my post was explaining that i have only watched the first disc so far, and the first disc alone. thus, this is hardly a review, but rather simple first impressions off the first bit {very small bit} of what i have yet to complete.

also please note, that in my first post, i even stated "i understand they are making up for lost plotholes and editing of the OVAs to make them fit in 13eps..." ['them' meaning the first plenty novels.]

so please don't carry on assuming i'm basing my Lodoss knowledge on the edited and chopped story we know as the OVA... and more importantly, please READ my ENTIRE post rather than picking at bits and pieces that you feel like comprehending and taking to notice. as for SLAYERS again, i have seen the entire first two series, and i can't stand it. so indeed, as Chronicles.. is different, it is still similar... it contains just enough of the "funny" {or not funny} moments that makes me despise SLAYERS.



lastly... the title of this thread says "to view obsene comments, CLICK HERE." if you didn't want to read obsene comments, perhaps this isn't the place for you.

overall however, in this thread, was asking what i have to look forward to in the TVseries... as i'm still very interested in continuing on... if not for the sake of interest in enjoying it, but also because it is SIMPLY ENOUGH Lodoss War. and i very well know that one cannot accurately judge any Anime Series without first viewing it all. {hense why i gave SLAYERS two chances even}... meanwhile, can anyone respond to my concerns rather than my simple nitpicks?

it would be appreciated. and while you're doing that, i'll hopefully be thru the second and third two discs in time to come back tonight to post my thoughts on those.. be them positive or negative. thanks. adieu.

[Dark Genesis]

You know, you only had 2 postive comments at all, you liked Orsen, (although you bashed his animation about 2 seconds later) and you asked about if it would improve at all. Given the bashing it was all embedded in, I don't blame ANYONE for responding the way they did.

I read your whole post and I'm sure Robotech Master did too. If you had wanted to ask about if it got better, just do so instead of putting it in a mound of complaints. My impression was that you were ripping the thing just based on the first disk. My fault, but understandable no?

[Robotech Master]

Indeed, your "over-reacting" completly deafened what could have been an intelligent argument.

I really don't agree with simply shouting out obscene comments about something, especially when you see only the first disc. If I want to vent frustration, I dream about blowing things up, or better yet, go play a video game where I can blow things up.

[Robotech Master]

Furthermore, Havoc, my little thing about ingnorance in regards to the TV series being based on the Novels was not directed at you, it was at Eva Fiend.

[EVA fiend]

Originally posted by Robotech Master
Furthermore, Havoc, my little thing about ingnorance in regards to the TV series being based on the Novels was not directed at you, it was at Eva Fiend.

I know that the TV series is based on the novels..., it still doesn't mean that I like the TV series any better because of it's a more faithful re-telling of the novels..., :rolleyes:

As for plot inconsistances, I saw the OAV first, so any comparision between the TV series will be made with reference to that..., not the novels (which I haven't read).., & I personally like the OAV series better...,

[Dark Genesis]

Originally posted by Robotech Master
If I want to vent frustration, I dream about blowing things up, or better yet, go play a video game where I can blow things up.

:lol: I think I found a new friend :lol:

Oh and EVA, yeah I liked the OAV better too. I don't know why, but I'm drawn to it... :confused:

P.S. Angry active thread better then no thread :D

[Robotech Master]

Yeah, but still, saying that the TV series has plot inconsistencies compared to the OVA is both unfair and wrong, since the TV series plot came first. It doesn't matter if you VIEW the OVA as being first, the fact of the matter is that it wasn't. That's like saying "I view the Empire Strikes Back as happening before The Phantom Menace."

Don't get me wrong, I like the OVA better too. I just think its completly wrong to judge the TV series in ANY way (good or bad) based on the fact that it didn't pick up after the OVA series.

Quite honestly, I think an attempt to do so would have been horrible. Remember, the last 5 episodes of the OVA were *loosely* based on the Novels, so they at least had some background with them. A direct sequel to the OVA would have resulted in a story not written by Ryo Mizuno that would either suck or end up not being Canon either way.

I mean, when you think about it, there was no logical reason to pick the OVA plot up when it ended like that. The TV series gave them 27 episodes, a lot more than 13, so they figured they'd use the extra time to tell the tale of the novels.

[heart havok]

one man's ---- is another man's delicacy.

sure, perhaps to you {whoever} i may have been cursing about the televison series, but i know in my mind cursing something doesn't neccessarily make something negative. {i.e.: "------- beautiful"} in fact, compared to the negative things i'd said, the positive things are worth many times as much. sure, so i said many negative things... but if people weren't too busy focusing on the negative, they could realize that at the same time, i was rather pointing out that i didn't like what the SLAYERS team did with the series rather than saying i disliked the series at all. pointing out something i see as faults in production doesn't mean i'm "bashing" anything other than the producers. N.B. i remember stating more positives than simply two.

Robotech
Indeed, your "over-reacting" completly deafened what could have been an intelligent argument.
i think what's more deafening is the fact that you can't look passed explicits and opinions, and you base intelligence off of choice of vocabulary and self-expression... what's worse than that, is that you cancel possibility of something becoming intelligable based on first impression opinions.

btw, do you think it's right for you to judge probabilities of intelligence on someone's form of expression when you can't simply copy a Screen Name correctly?

Robotek
I really don't agree with simply shouting out obscene comments about something...
#1: never had i claimed to be shouting.
#2: no one asked you to agree.
#3: you were warned before entering.
#4: never had i claimed to be venting.
#5: never had i claimed to be frustrated.
Robotech
Yeah, but still, saying that the TV series has plot inconsistencies compared to the OVA is both unfair and wrong, since the TV series plot came first. It doesn't matter if you VIEW the OVA as being first, the fact of the matter is that it wasn't. That's like saying "I view the Empire Strikes Back as happening before The Phantom Menace."
i think it's moreso unfair and wrong to make one thing and then change your mind and make the same thing only changing things around as though the first was never made. how would you have felt if in Episode I they changed things that they had already established in Episode V. i personally wouldn't be too happy if they had said in Episode V that Vader's name was Anakin and then later, in Episode I they changed his name to Cornelius. that would be rather akward... not a very good example, though, that you've given considering that Episode I is chronologically before Episode V and TVseries is chronologically after and then during {and eventually long after, again} the OVA.
Robotech
I just think its completly wrong to judge the TV series in ANY way (good or bad) based on the fact that it didn't pick up after the OVA series
i think it's moreso wrong of them to not pick up after a story they had already been telling. that's the equivelent of saying: "blah blah blah, this is my story" and then saying "nevermind, i was wrong, this is my story: blah blah,etc..." they could have done a sequal in many ways, not simply the one you've stated. i see it as greatly a lack of creativity and detication of what they brought on with the OVAs. if they didn't want the story told that way, then they never should had told it that way in the first place rather than changing their minds. that's terribly indecisive of them. no logical reason? from what i know of the TVseries so far {no, i haven't finished it yet.} i see no reason in changing what had already been told. and from the parts long-after, there are countless ways they could tie the latter characters in with the previous characters. who says they needed to pick up the OVA plot? i'm simply saying they didn't need to change it either... it was made "history" in the world of Lodoss... and they shouldn't have tried to retell what they -themselves- had made as "history."

meanwhile, my main focus of concern still lies on the problems of production. more than chronology or storyline, the main concern of mine is that the SLAYERS team is who REALLY fuckered up the TVseries.




now eitherway, anyone still care on answering my question? what do i have to look forward to?

[Robotech Master]

RE: sure, perhaps to you {whoever} i may have been cursing about the televison series, but i know in my mind cursing something doesn't neccessarily make something negative. {i.e.: "------- beautiful"} in fact, compared to the negative things i'd said, the positive things are worth many times as much. sure, so i said many negative things... but if people weren't too busy focusing on the negative, they could realize that at the same time, i was rather pointing out that i didn't like what the SLAYERS team did with the series rather than saying i disliked the series at all. pointing out something i see as faults in production doesn't mean i'm "bashing" anything other than the producers. N.B. i remember stating more positives than simply two.

Your original post did not state this as clearly. yes, you mentioned your dislike of the Slayers Team's efforts, but your comments seemed to regard the TV series in general.

RE: i think what's more deafening is the fact that you can't look passed explicits and opinions, and you base intelligence off of choice of vocabulary and self-expression... what's worse than that, is that you cancel possibility of something becoming intelligable based on first impression opinions.

I did not make claims on your intelligence as a whole, but merely stated that this one thread simply didn't have anything really serious to say about the TV series, other than that you disliked the Slayers Team for what they did to it. I don't care if you don't like what the Slayers team did, that's your opinion, you stick to it, but I'm concerned with the whole "It didn't follow the OVA" thing, which was only partially directed at you, most of that was towards Eva Fiend. Therefore, address further down below...

RE:btw, do you think it's right for you to judge probabilities of intelligence on someone's form of expression when you can't simply copy a Screen Name correctly

Copy a Screen name? You mean like your "Robotek?"

BTW, I was only shortening your screen name. People do it all the time. If I could only count the number of times I've been called RM or Robo.


RE:#1: never had i claimed to be shouting.
#2: no one asked you to agree.
#3: you were warned before entering.
#4: never had i claimed to be venting.
#5: never had i claimed to be frustrated.

1) Since writing online does not allow us to view a persons tone or emotion, such is judged on the way it is written. You gave the impression of shouting.
2) And no one asked you to post obscene comments. What's the problem?
3) Warnings mean nothing on this board unless they are meant to prevent damage or offense, and your post didn't offend or damage. To me, it was just another post.
4) Then why spend the time to write all that with such verbal descriptions of all you disliked about how the TV series was presented?
5) See 1. Your words implied such feeling, not in the sense that you were confused, but your anger towards the changes in the TV series.

RE: i think it's moreso unfair and wrong to make one thing and then change your mind and make the same thing only changing things around as though the first was never made. how would you have felt if in Episode I they changed things that they had already established in Episode V. i personally wouldn't be too happy if they had said in Episode V that Vader's name was Anakin and then later, in Episode I they changed his name to Cornelius. that would be rather akward... not a very good example, though, that you've given considering that Episode I is chronologically before Episode V and TVseries is chronologically after and then during {and eventually long after, again} the OVA.

Ah, now this is where I get to the main point. Everything above I don't care about. But here....this is what I wanted to discuss. The fact remains, heart havok, that the TV series APPEARED in animation after the OVA, but that its story was written prior to the OVA. Mizuno had up to Novel 3 or 4 written during the production of the OVA, and he already had the ideas for 5, 6, and 7 written down.

The thing about Anakin being changed to Cornelius is irrelevant because the TV series plot was the first, the original, and it was what was supposed to happen after the events of Episode 8. Star Wars does not have such a problem because its story was specifically made for the Big Screen, it therefore shares no big problems regarding adaptation.

THe entire reason the staff changed the last 5 episodes was not a act of choice, it was because they had not alternative. 5 episodes cannot tell the tale of 4 novels.

And again, the TV series is not chronologically after the OVA. It is after Novel 1, which specifically ended with the First defeat of Karla, IOW, episode 8. Episodes 9-13 are not Canon, so why should they be followed. The Empire Strikes Back IS Canon, so naturally the Phantom Menace followed it. It didn't follow something like "Splinter of the Minds Eye," Which isn't Canon to my knowledge.

RE:i think it's moreso wrong of them to not pick up after a story they had already been telling. that's the equivelent of saying: "blah blah blah, this is my story" and then saying "nevermind, i was wrong, this is my story: blah blah,etc..." they could have done a sequal in many ways, not simply the one you've stated. i see it as greatly a lack of creativity and detication of what they brought on with the OVAs. if they didn't want the story told that way, then they never should had told it that way in the first place rather than changing their minds. that's terribly indecisive of them. no logical reason? from what i know of the TVseries so far {no, i haven't finished it yet.} i see no reason in changing what had already been told. and from the parts long-after, there are countless ways they could tie the latter characters in with the previous characters. who says they needed to pick up the OVA plot? i'm simply saying they didn't need to change it either... it was made "history" in the world of Lodoss... and they shouldn't have tried to retell what they -themselves- had made as "history."


Again, they had no choice. Budget for the OVA allowed for 13 episodes, which cannot fit 7 novels of Story. The OVA was what "changed what had already been told." The problem here is that the Novels were never released in America, so you're seeing it from without such reference. In Japan, people who saw the OVA ending would be going "What, this isn't what was supposed to happen." The point is that the TV series did not change anything. It is, and always will be the original story, although it still left out some things (even 27 episodes cannot fit 4 novels into it).

Why continue the OVA? It ended the story completly. There was no story to go by after that. The only actual books that have been written after the fact are the Shin Lodoss Novels, all relatively new and all take place after the ending of the 7th Novel, IOW, the Tv Series ending.

RE: the main concern of mine is that the SLAYERS team is who REALLY fuckered up the TVseries.

That I have no concern with. Dislike the style all you want, I just dislike any form of judgement based on the OVA when the OVA's last five episodes aren't Canon.

RE: now eitherway, anyone still care on answering my question? what do i have to look forward to?

The Battle of Fire Dragon Mountain
The Duel between King Kashue and Ashram
The introduction of the New Characters
The War between Flaim and Allania
The War between The Free Army and Kanon
------------The Liberation of Kanon
The Ressurection of Kardis, Parn and Ashram's last battle, etc.
Insights into the History of Lodoss (not the gods battle, more like stuff in the last 800 years or so)

[Dark Genesis]

Originally posted by Robotech Master
Copy a Screen name? You mean like your "Robotek?" :lol:

I think my brain popped when I saw the length of these responses. :rolleyes:

Btw congrats on becoming a junkie Robotech Master. :D

Also, you never commented on that Deed shrine I refered ya to. What'd you think?

[Robotech Master]

Yeah, that was a good site. I had been to those shrines a LONG time ago, and had forgotten the URL, so I couldn't go back and check the other shrines I wanted to see. Thanks. I had also come across a Hentai version of that site, but I didn't look at it.

Woah, I became a Junkie? I barely ever take notice of my post count.

[Dark Genesis]

Yeah, tempting, but Deed's purity must remain :o

Oh, you meant your member status? Oh yeah.... that's what I meant.... yes....of course... ;)

[Robotech Master]

RE: Oh, you meant your member status? Oh yeah.... that's what I meant.... yes....of course...


Of course you were referring to my member status. I've been a junkie far too long to become one recently.

[heart havok]

Originally posted by Robotech Master
Your original post did not state this as clearly. yes, you mentioned your dislike of the Slayers Team's efforts, but your comments seemed to regard the TV series in general.
stating anything clearly is not of my concern. if you are going to misinterpret the meanings of my words, then you're the one at loss. simply because you fail to correctly interpret my focus of regard, and your personalize my words to be bashing the TVseries in general, doesn't mean you are correct in the interpretation of such.
Robotech
I did not make claims on your intelligence as a whole, but merely stated that this one thread simply didn't have anything really serious to say about the TV series, other than that you disliked the Slayers Team for what they did to it. I don't care if you don't like what the Slayers team did, that's your opinion, you stick to it, but I'm concerned with the whole "It didn't follow the OVA" thing, which was only partially directed at you, most of that was towards Eva Fiend. Therefore, address further down below...
don't be silly, you hadn't noticed my SLAYERS comments, you claimed yourself that you thought i was focusing on bashing the TVseries. stick to your own guns. meanwhile, i do understand now that ou were directing most of your "didn't follow" at Evafiend. so you can drop that. if you aren't bashing someone's intelligence, then don't speak badly of it.
Robotek
Copy a Screen name? You mean like your "Robotek?"

this is what we call "Situational Irony." get a clue.
Robotech
BTW, I was only shortening your screen name. People do it all the time. If I could only count the number of times I've been called RM or Robo.
or like me calling you Robotech instead of Robotech Master. yes, "havok" is fine, but if you'll take the time to notice, there IS a "k" there rather than the 'correctly spelled' "c."
Robotech
1) Since writing online does not allow us to view a persons tone or emotion, such is judged on the way it is written. You gave the impression of shouting.
2) And no one asked you to post obscene comments. What's the problem?
3) Warnings mean nothing on this board unless they are meant to prevent damage or offense, and your post didn't offend or damage. To me, it was just another post.
4) Then why spend the time to write all that with such verbal descriptions of all you disliked about how the TV series was presented?
5) See 1. Your words implied such feeling, not in the sense that you were confused, but your anger towards the changes in the TV series.
misinterpretation.

Ah, now this is where I get to the main point. Everything above I don't care about.
agreed.
Robotech
But here....this is what I wanted to discuss. The fact remains, heart havok, that the TV series APPEARED in animation after the OVA, but that its story was written prior to the OVA. Mizuno had up to Novel 3 or 4 written during the production of the OVA, and he already had the ideas for 5, 6, and 7 written down.
their mistake. they should have thought about all this before doing the OVA. all it takes is creativity.
Robotech
The thing about Anakin being changed to Cornelius is irrelevant because the TV series plot was the first, the original, and it was what was supposed to happen after the events of Episode 8. Star Wars does not have such a problem because its story was specifically made for the Big Screen, it therefore shares no big problems regarding adaptation.
it's only as irrelivant as the novels are while dealing with the OVA and TVseries. the novels were written as novels, the anime were written as anime. if they wanted to make an anime of the novels, they should have done so in the first place. if they wanted to make an anime disregarding the novels, they should have.
Robotech
THe entire reason the staff changed the last 5 episodes was not a act of choice, it was because they had not alternative. 5 episodes cannot tell the tale of 4 novels.
again, their mistake for not thinking ahead.
Robotech
And again, the TV series is not chronologically after the OVA. It is after Novel 1, which specifically ended with the First defeat of Karla, IOW, episode 8. Episodes 9-13 are not Canon, so why should they be followed. The Empire Strikes Back IS Canon, so naturally the Phantom Menace followed it. It didn't follow something like "Splinter of the Minds Eye," Which isn't Canon to my knowledge.
IOW? {i'm terrible at Acronyms, i can always think of a million possibilities for their meanings} ..meanwhile: OVA spans the time of when Ghim meets Parn all the way to the battle on Fire Dragon Mountian. the TVseries spans from after Ghim's death to far beyond that battle. thus, YES INDEED, the TVseries is during the latter half of the OVA and carries on after the OVA.
Robotech
Again, they had no choice. Budget for the OVA allowed for 13 episodes, which cannot fit 7 novels of Story. The OVA was what "changed what had already been told." The problem here is that the Novels were never released in America, so you're seeing it from without such reference. In Japan, people who saw the OVA ending would be going "What, this isn't what was supposed to happen." The point is that the TV series did not change anything. It is, and always will be the original story, although it still left out some things (even 27 episodes cannot fit 4 novels into it).
lack of choice is a nice way of implying lack of creativity. anything is possible.
Robotech
Why continue the OVA? It ended the story completly. There was no story to go by after that. The only actual books that have been written after the fact are the Shin Lodoss Novels, all relatively new and all take place after the ending of the 7th Novel, IOW, the Tv Series ending.
anything is possible. the OVA could have been continued just as the TVseries carries on beyond it.
Robotech
That I have no concern with. Dislike the style all you want, I just dislike any form of judgement based on the OVA when the OVA's last five episodes aren't Canon.

my judgement is based on that if they wanted to do the novels they should have in the first place. they didn't, thus they shouldn't have changed their mind.
Robotech
The Battle of Fire Dragon Mountain
The Duel between King Kashue and Ashram
The introduction of the New Characters
The War between Flaim and Allania
The War between The Free Army and Kanon
------------The Liberation of Kanon
The Ressurection of Kardis, Parn and Ashram's last battle, etc.
Insights into the History of Lodoss (not the gods battle, more like stuff in the last 800 years or so)
elaboration is greatly appreciated {spoiler free}... the only thing of those that gives me any idea of what i have to look forward to is "introduction of the New Characters" which indeed is all i look forward to so far.

[Dark Genesis]

This thread is more entertaining the watching kids slip on the icy hill behind my school. :lol:

[heart havok]

and it's making this forum active, as it deserves to be so. ^_~

[EVA fiend]

Originally posted by Robotech Master
Yeah, but still, saying that the TV series has plot inconsistencies compared to the OVA is both unfair and wrong, since the TV series plot came first.


Wrong & unfair…? To you maybe…, as far as I’m concerned.., last time I looked, I was entitled to my opinions…, just as you are entitled to yours…, :rolleyes:
If they wanted to do the novels properly, then they shouldn’t have been so short-sighted with the OAV in the first place…, the TV series plot may have come out first..., but that wasn't what I was able to see in the OAV..., & having no access to the novels..., you expect me to throw away 5 years watching of the OAV in favour for the TV series that only came out a couple of years ago...?
As far as I can see…, the TV series is just another way to milk more money out of the Lodoss War fans…,

Originally posted by Robotech Master
I just dislike any form of judgement based on the OVA when the OVA's last five episodes aren't Canon.

You can dislike all you want…, I don’t really care…, it won’t change my opinions…, I don’t like the TV series when compared to the OAV…, & I didn’t enjoy it as a piece of entertainment either…, as far as I’m concerned, that is far more important than whether the series is truer to a set of novels that I will never read…,

[Dark Genesis]

Originally posted by heart havok
and it's making this forum active, as it deserves to be so. ^_~

If I'm right, this is the longest thread in the whole forum :eek:

Btw, the OAV is great, and I love it, I prefer it way over the TV series, but that still doesn't mean I hate the TV series. Doesn't mean I love the OAV 100% ether. The TV series is superior in some aspects.

[Dark Genesis]

Nuts. I post that it's the longest thread yet and the posts stop :confused: :( :confused: :(

[Robotech Master]

Crap, I miss two days and this thread builds up another full page. Ugh, I'll tackle all of it tomorrow.

College History Papers suck, let alone 2 of them!:mad:

[Robotech Master]

Ok here we go.

First, heart havok:

RE: : OVA spans the time of when Ghim meets Parn all the way to the battle on Fire Dragon Mountian. the TVseries spans from after Ghim's death to far beyond that battle. thus, YES INDEED, the TVseries is during the latter half of the OVA and carries on after the OVA.

No, the OVA's first 8 episodes spans from the time Ghim meets Parn all the way to when Ghim dies. But since it was King Kashue who killed Beld, and not Karla, and since the heroes did not meet Shiris and Orson on their way to Karla's, it stands to reason that the TV series follows the Novels, not the OVA. The TV series ignores all of the events that happen after episode 8.

Now, about the "They should have thought about it before hand" thing:

Well, you're speaking as if they have offended a great deal of people by doing this (since, as a company, they would only care if their decisions would affect a lot of people, not just a few).

Try to see this from Japan's perspective. Because they didn't create this anime for you or me. They created it for the fans of the novels. Have you watched the "Making of Lodoss War" documentary on the first VHS tape? Did you see the hundreds of fans who crowded into a convention center just to see the premiere of the first 2 episodes?

They did not see the OVA first. Most of Japan was not pulled into the Lodoss universe by the OVA. Many of them were either pulled in by the Novels or by the RPG game which led to the novels. They were already fans, and they came there to see an adaptation of all their favorite characters.

So in other words, they didn't ---- off a lot of people with the TV series, or the OVA for that matter. The Japanese public didn't mind either. If you want to mind, that's your opinion, but that won't matter to companies like SNK or Kadokawa, not unless you're part of their immediate target, the Japanese audience.

The Second thing I will point out is the way the company has to work, and I'll provide Lord of the Rings as an example. Did you know that before the films were made, Peter Jackson was only given enough budget and time to make one movie, about the ENTIRE trilogy.

After a lot of thought, the company realized this would turn out bad and ---- a lot of people off, so they finally gave Jackson his 3 films. So even as a Director, Jackson was powerless to set the amount of time and money he would have.

Now for Lodoss, there are several big differences:
1) Mizuno is writing the OVA story, which is comparitively like Tolkien writing the LOTR movies. The fans trust and respect Mizuno because he is the creator of Lodoss, his writing is Canon, and they were first drawn to Lodoss because of his writing
2) Lodoss was popular, but it wasn't a world-wide phenomenon like LOTR. Considering that out of the thousands of fans, few would actually be pissed off about the changes made in the OVA, why bother?

Which brings me to the following things:
A) The company had budget limits. They gave him 13 episodes. That's all he gets.
B) From the Japanese point of view, the OVA was a change, and the TV series would bring them back to what originally brought them into Lodoss in the first place.
C) They didn't make Lodoss for an American audience. Their concern was the Japanese public.

So I ask you this Havok. Let us say you're Mizuno. You've been given this task, the crowds of fans are demanding to see an adaptation of their novels. You don't have enough space because the company only gave you 13 episodes, but the public wants something! You won't be able to make a real sequel for nearly 8 years! So do you:
A: Make an alternate ending to bring the series to a close until you can get a larger episode number

OR

B: End the series with a black screen with the message: "Tune in in 8 years to see the conclusion!"

RE:lack of choice is a nice way of implying lack of creativity. anything is possible.

Anything is possible? So your saying that even with no choice but to make 13 episodes, they could still fit 7 novels into a story? The End of the OVA is based on the Novels, but VERY VERY loosely. The TV series has the ressurection of Kardis and the Battle of Fire Dragon Mountain, they are just in greater detail. Mizuno didn't continue the OVA plotline because he DIDN'T WANT TO. He stoped it there for the same reason George Lucas decided to stop with Episode 3 and discontinue his plans for Episodes 7-9. The story ended, he didn't want to take the adventures of Parn and Deedlit or Spark and Neese beyond the end of the Marmo War. That's his decision. What Mizuno says about Lodoss is Canon, Havok, which means it is law. You can dislike anything he did if you want, but in the end, that doesn't mean too much to him. If you don't like it, well, tough.


RE: anything is possible. the OVA could have been continued just as the TVseries carries on beyond it.

As I said, the TV series still follows the Battle of Fire Dragon Mountain and the Ressurection of Kardis. These were things from the other 6 novels which Mizuno shrank down and changed dramatically to fit into the 5 episodes, which, if you ask me, is a creative feat, but it was his decision to seek a larger episode number so that he could create the story he originally intended to. So remember, the TV series does not carry on beyond the OVA. It specifically carries on after episode 8 (end of the first Novel). The TV series is just Lodoss War OVA episodes 9-13 in more detail essentially.


RE:
elaboration is greatly appreciated {spoiler free}... the only thing of those that gives me any idea of what i have to look forward to is "introduction of the New Characters" which indeed is all i look forward to so far.

Fine. Battle of Fire Dragon Mountain is better in the TV series than the OVA.
A number of the Sword Fights and Duels are better.
There is more war to be fought, the war with Marmo is not over. I don't want to tell you anything more about the War really. I'd rather you finish the series and reserve your judgement until you have seen the entire series.

For the record, my judgement of the series changed after I got the 3rd and 4rth Volume, and again slightly after seeing the whole series.

[Dark Genesis]

I have to admit, that is the best explanation and refute I've ever read. :D :bigclap: :D :bigclap:

[heart havok]

okay.. that's all quite understood and dandy, but i care not about what corperations think, nor the Japanese public, nor fans even.

i don't care about what "is law" nor what pleases majority, nor what Mizuno wants nor what i want even. i'm simply discussing.

the only thing i am truly unsatasfied with, is i think it was poor judgement of them to give to the SLAYERS team. don't misinterpret my words as complaining. that would be wasting my time, as complaining about this wouldn't change any of it. i'm simply discussing observations.

i was actually considering not finishing the series until a few months, as i not only don't have much time for it, but i also haven't been in the state of mind this past week {yeah, personal ---- that eats people up inside}... but also, i was thinking maybe i'm just not ready to view the TVseries, as i'd rather watch it with a less biast Point of View. but your "Fine." {geez, don't make me force you to atleast attempt to jump off the "you are wrong to feel the way you do" bandwagon and instead support it positively.} statements you made have actually tweaked my interests once more.. perhaps enough to reconsider my previous consideration. meanwhile, i'll think about finishing it, and perhaps return once i have.

meanwhile, try looking at it from my point of view... i'm just concerned about the telling of a good story.

[Robotech Master]

Yes, I know that you don't like how the Slayers team handled the series, and that is your opinion and I'm fine with that.

I only replied to your previous post because of this whole "They should have done that in the first place thing."

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, yes, but Lodoss War is Mizuno's creative work, and I don't think anyone has a right to tell him what it should be. If the story he wrote was handled badly by the Slayers team, well, then it was handled badly, but I don't think Mizuno was wrong to use the TV series to tell the story of the novels.

In your case, it was just bad luck that the Slayers Team handled it the way they did.

RE: geez, don't make me force you to atleast attempt to jump off the "you are wrong to feel the way you do" bandwagon and instead support it positively.}

I never said you were wrong to feel that the series quality was done badly by the Slayers Team. As I said, I feel that Mizuno's story is his own, and I don't think anyone has the right to tell him what to do with it. In other words, yes, from your point of view the Slayers team didn't do too well, but the Slayers team has nothing to do with the fact that the Series follows the novels, and I don't believe the series in general should be judged on the fact that it didn't follow the OVA.

I mean, honestly, considering the truths behind the way the series was produced, the limits, etc. what does following the OVA have anything to do with the actual quality of the TV series?

If you don't like the series even after viewing it as a seperate entity, that's fine, go ahead. I know many people that hate it, many that love it much more, and many that love or like both of them and I'm fine with all of their opinions. But when you judge the series, don't include storyline contradictions in regards to the OVA. It wasn't meant to follow the OVA, and that was Mizuno's choice and it was the way the story was originally told anyway.

As for "Your point of view," I'm not concerned with that. I understand the whole deal about the telling of a good story, I just dislike the whole relation to the OVA thing.

[heart havok]

yet still, the only relations to the OVA that i've done is said that they should've chosed to tell one or the other story rather than contradicting themselves in attempt to tell two different stories about the same world. it takes the magic of fantasy away from the world of Lodoss.

meanwhile, never have i been suggesting that my thoughts are any better than Mizuno's because, indeed, it is his. i'm simply saying that if he wanted to tell the Novels' story he should have stuck to that. if he couldn't find a way to fit that story he wants to tell in 13 episodes, then he should save it for when he has the range he feels he needs rather than editing the story and telling it apart from the way he truly felt he wanted the story to betold. meanwhile, rather than returning eight years later to tell the same story the way he wanted to. i am happy for his own creativity, that he has had the chance to return and correct the terrible editing that he indeed had done to his story. yet what's done is still done, and making a second series isn't changing that but rather contradicting it. i never judged the TVseries based on the OVA other than stating that i rather like that it is correctly going into Orson's past. other than that very positive statement, i never suggested that following the OVA had any contribution to the TVseries' quality.
Robotech
I never said you were wrong to feel that the series quality was done badly by the Slayers Team. As I said, I feel that Mizuno's story is his own, and I don't think anyone has the right to tell him what to do with it. In other words, yes, from your point of view the Slayers team didn't do too well, but the Slayers team has nothing to do with the fact that the Series follows the novels, and I don't believe the series in general should be judged on the fact that it didn't follow the OVA
no, you never said i was wrong to feel that the series quality was done badly by the SLAYERS team. but you do keep negatively confabulating against me sharing my opinion on Mizuno's lack of good decision. certainly, no, you never asked for my opinions, but the same time, i never asked you to ask for them. if you don't want them don't come here. i, on the other hand, am certainly here because i'm interested in knowing what i have to look forward to in the series... i was stating my opinion and my point of view so that one can know what it is that turns me off on the series, and hopefully use their own deductive reasoning along with their own skills of decisive interpretation and experience of viewing what i have yet to view - so that one would be able to put their biasts asside and find positive qualities of the series that they find fit to my point of view, that they could then suggest to me to give me an insight of what i do have to look forward to in the seires.

you taking this on a biast, personal level - picking out what you want to read and comprehend and turning away what it is you don't want to read and comprehend - has done nothing more than turn me off the series and turn me off from my personal interest in WANTING to seek out an insight on hopefull anticipation on the series.

so please, spare what interest i DO have left in continuing the series, and leave me be in my thread, so that one who feels that can help to positively stimulate this hopeful desire of mine can come and make a {hopefully successful} attempt at positively reenforcing this series rather than negatively arguing against my own personal views by a discriminative misinterpretation of my choice of wording of our chosen language. thanks for your attempts, Robotech.

so please... f uck off :)

[Robotech Master]

RE:yet still, the only relations to the OVA that i've done is said that they should've chosed to tell one or the other story rather than contradicting themselves in attempt to tell two different stories about the same world. it takes the magic of fantasy away from the world of Lodoss.

ugh, but that's just it. There is not point in you saying that they contradicted themselves by doing this. The way the company worked it out for Mizuno is the way they worked it out, period. That's just how it works sometimes when they produce these things. Mizuno didn't WANT to continue the OVA. He finished the OVA. Now it was time to tell the story the way it was originally told. As I said, the TV series is nothing more than OVA episodes 9-13 extended and in greater detail (with all the other characters). The way he finished the OVA was THE end.

In other words, there would be NO sequel at all. Its just that, here in his hand Mizuno was the original novels, and gee, a thought came into his head that he could do some animation about that. Because that was another story he could do. The OVA, meanwhile, had finished and come to an end. He felt no obligation to continue the OVA when he had ended its story.


RE: meanwhile, never have i been suggesting that my thoughts are any better than Mizuno's because, indeed, it is his. i'm simply saying that if he wanted to tell the Novels' story he should have stuck to that. if he couldn't find a way to fit that story he wants to tell in 13 episodes, then he should save it for when he has the range he feels he needs rather than editing the story and telling it apart from the way he truly felt he wanted the story to betold. meanwhile, rather than returning eight years later to tell the same story the way he wanted to. i am happy for his own creativity, that he has had the chance to return and correct the terrible editing that he indeed had done to his story. yet what's done is still done, and making a second series isn't changing that but rather contradicting it. i never judged the TVseries based on the OVA other than stating that i rather like that it is correctly going into Orson's past. other than that very positive statement, i never suggested that following the OVA had any contribution to the TVseries' quality.

But that is just the way it worked out. Mizuno had no control over that. He isn't lord of SNK and Kadokawa. He said in an interview that, given the choices he had, he wanted to finish the story so the people who had been waiting to see the OVA could have a definate ending, and he wanted there to be some changes from the novels just to make it a little different. Indeed, even the TV series has changes just to make it a little different.

And the series isn't contradicting the OVA. How can something contradict was it doesn't intend to follow in the first place.?

RE: Mizuno's lack of good decision

Once again, not always his choice to make. As for the choices he did make, your opinion of whether they are good or bad is yours, but you can't say that he should have continued the OVA because the TV series contradicts it, especially when the TV series doesn't actually contradict anything. It can't contradict the OVA if it is not Canon. The OVA is like a Star Wars Novel or comic book compared to the Movies or Movie Novelizations.


RE:other than that very positive statement, i never suggested that following the OVA had any contribution to the TVseries' quality.

Ok. Then why use an entire post to talk about how it was their fault for not originally using the Novel storyline? You seemed rather focused on the thought that they should have continued the OVA story instead.


RE: you taking this on a biast, personal level - picking out what you want to read and comprehend and turning away what it is you don't want to read and comprehend

Oh please. I know too many people with opinions on this particular series, good and bad both, for your opinion of its quality to matter even a little to my personal well being. All I want is for people to realize that the TV series story is seperate from the OVA, and that it should be viewed as an entirely different series from the last 5 episodes of the OVA (and thus, the issue of how they "should have continued the OVA" shouldn't even come up).

RE: has done nothing more than turn me off the series and turn me off from my personal interest in WANTING to seek out an insight on hopefull anticipation on the series.

Which is a big problem for you apparently. All I want you to do is to acknowledge that the creators had to change a few things in the OVA, and that Mizuno decided to create a TV series devoted to his original story, not the OVA that he had ended. That should have NOTHING to do with either your opinion of the series quality or your desire to see more of it.


RE: so please, spare what interest i DO have left in continuing the series, and leave me be in my thread, so that one who feels that can help to positively stimulate this hopeful desire of mine can come and make a {hopefully successful} attempt at positively reenforcing this series rather than negatively arguing against my own personal views by a discriminative misinterpretation of my choice of wording of our chosen language. thanks for your attempts, Robotech.

Positively reinforce your hopes eh? You speak is if I care what you think about the TV series quality again. I don't give a rat's ***. I dislike ANY (not just yours) idea of how the TV series "*Should* have followed the OVA." Once again, that has absolutely nothing to do with the series quality.

If you can completely ignore the last 5 episodes of the OVA and watch the TV series as a seperate entity, not caring about "how they should have done this story originally," then all you have to do is watch the series and judge it for yourself. Nothing I am saying has anything to do with how good the series is. I like the OVA better as well, but I bought the entire TV series and ended up liking it after I watched the entire thing.

We've already told you to watch for new characters, for the better animated sword fights in some of the duels, for the prospect of new wars and battles to view, and to see how the Battle of Fire Dragon Moutain and the Ressurection of Kardis work out in the TV series.

Unless you want us to literally give you the damn scripts for the next episodes, you shouldn't need anything more than that. If you want to see what happens, watch the series. Our opinions of the series should have no impact on your decision to watch it, because ultimately you will judge the series for yourself.

[heart havok]

wow, i was really hoping to go thru my time at AB without having to put someone on my ignore list. sorry Robotech, but if you can't look passed your own assumptions, then you're not worth my time.

::ignore::

take care. adieu.

[heart havok]

finished it. loved it.

i did have to start skipping the "second half" parts though... otherwise, they would have held me back from getting thru it.

i definitely liked the OVA's way of putting all the events together though... i mean with Wagnard and Ashram and the such. the TVseries felt too outspread and felt as though too much of the occurances were needless. but none the less, the extra character development on characters such as Ashram and Orson was wonderful. though the lack of character development on characters such as Pirotess and the many side characters was bothersome. it felt many of the characters hardly had a reason for being there.

none the less... after the first disc, and especially once Spark grows up, i loved it.

[Robotech Master]

Don't know if you'll read this, but I'm happy that you liked it:)