14 year olds

[Wolfpac]

Why do 14 year olds have to pilot the Eva units???

[eva2000]

i remember a really long discussion but we never came to an answer

[Archive]: Children
http://www.animeboards.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=232

fasad
EVA-Pilot
(5/12/00 10:37:57 am)
203.23.145.163
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ok, a couple of questions.... ("inspired" by eva2000's post about the new eva info

why do you think the pilots for the evas are all born after the second impact? is it because people born after this date are some-how different?

and why are they called children (plural) ? 3foolishmen, is there some subtle meaning from the japanese that doesn't translate?

also, what makes you think unit 02 has asuka's mother's soul in it??



Capt Jake
EVA-Pilot
(5/12/00 11:03:07 am)
216.209.145.115
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I'm not going to get into that whole thing about mother's souls in Evas and stuff right now. It is elsewhere on this board if you look for it. Also, children is just used because it sounds cool as far as I know. 3foolishmen, put your trilingualness to good use and help us out here. Also we know that Askua's mom is in Unit-02 cuz in Evangelion Rebirth she finds her mother again. She realizes that her mother has been with her in the Eva the whole time. This gets her her sync ratio back just in time to open up a can of whoop ass on the JSSDF


3foolishmen
EVA-Pilot
(5/12/00 12:20:59 pm)
168.122.7.78
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"why do you think the pilots for the evas are all born after the second impact? is it because people born after this date are some-how different?"

My guess is yes. There's little information in the series about this topic, but since all of the children were born after the 2nd Impact, I suppose that it was some sort of threshold. So they were pilots because they were born after the 2nd Impact rather than vice versa. Still, there are personal 'aptitudes', considering Shinji seems to be blessed(or cursed) as a pilot.

"why are they called children (plural) ?"

It's actually got nothing to do with translation, the term appears as is in the non-dubbed/subbed Japanese version.
The Japanese people are usually terrible with English. Grammar mistakes, spelling errors, 3 word vocabularies(yes, no & thank you), aweful pronunciation, name it, and they've got it.
On the contrary, one thing that impressed me about the series is that the level of mastery of the English seen in the series was quite superb(umbilical cable? surely no Japanese guy would be able to think of that off the top of his head). It seems unlikely that Gainax would allow such an elementary error.
Consider the case of the first "child", Rei. She was "plural", right? I guess the researchers at Gehirn referred to her as the first "children", and the use of that term stuck.

"what makes you think unit 02 has asuka's mother's soul in it??"

What Cap'n says. There's little material about this issue in the series to work with, although I think that Asuka's mother's mental condition was a hint, ie, she lost her 'soul' to Unit 02 when an activation/synch test went awry.


Access
NERV-Technician
(5/12/00 2:25:11 pm)
203.21.78.66
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Their is no argueing that Auska's mum is uin Unit-02. It is stated "Now I understand, my mother is watching over me, protecting me etc..."

And I am un sure what makes them need to be born after 2nd Impact, but that would seem to be the cause. But it is understanding that they wernt all born 9 months after 2nd impact, they were born at varies stages AFTER 2nd impact.
Access


Capt Jake
EVA-Pilot
(5/12/00 9:36:01 pm)
206.172.239.19
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well the answer is simple. After the second impact that was when thier mother's died and the Eva's were built with thier mother's soul's in the Eva's. it must have something to do with that fact but It maybe just was when the Eva's were all built.

fasad
EVA-Pilot
(5/13/00 1:18:24 am)
203.23.145.164
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in ep 23 (maybey 22), when ritsuko destroys the rei clones, and is giving her speach (its very hard to understand with the music being a tad too loud), she says the "room of gaf" is empty. from what i've read, this is a place in heaven where souls are kept for new babies. does this mean they have no "heavenly souls"? also, in anno's rainy day intro, he says the world of eva has fewer and fewer children each year. any more ideas?


so the use of children could be just a bit of engrish? ha! but your idea about rei(s) is a good explaination. when they refer to them in japanese, do they use plural, or is it just the english on the computer displays?

3foolishmen
EVA-Pilot
(5/15/00 10:20:57 am)
168.122.13.79
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Access: "[Rei] was the only being EVER to just create its own soul, while everyone gets theirs from the Guf."

ATh: "Obviously they (gendo ect) did not get Rei's soul from the room of Gaff as it was empty, so where did Rei get her soul?"

I took Ritsuko's passage, especially "Only she has a soul", to mean that only Rei I, II and III successively got a soul from the room of Gaph, and the other spare clones were soulless vessels.
In other words, there can only be one soul per soul. ReiSoul can probably be transferred from ReiBody to Reibody, but only one ReiBody can contain a ReiSoul at any given time.
I've come up with two feasible possibilities: a) ReiI, II and III are the same souls, or b)ReiI, II and III are separate souls.
ReiIII did not know/remember memories of ReiII(I assume the same for ReiI&II): "No, I don't know. I'm probably the third." In the case of a), it could be that memories of the past have been "sealed" once ReiSoul returned from the room of Gaph. There's a piece of info that I found, that says a soul in the RoG(which is also in the heavens) knows past, present and future, and the angel that accompanies the soul from the RoG to the body seals this knowledge as the child is born. Can anybody confirm this?
In the case of b), I,II and III's souls are individual. Therefore they have no knowledge of and share no memories of each other.
Either way, I think Rei's soul is Rei's soul, individual or continuous, like Access says.

Fasad: The other children(Shinji, Asuka, Touji, Kensuke, Hikaru) were not cloned. They probably all had fathers and mothers who bore them(although Kensuke is an orphan, Touji's mother's identity is never clarified, and the same for Hikaru.) Only in the cases of the spare Rei's was the RoG was empty. I suppose children who were conceived 'normally' got their souls 'normally' from the RoG.


Capt Jake
EVA-Pilot
(5/15/00 11:51:48 am)
206.172.239.92
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Well first of all yesterday I was watching my english copy of Genesis 0:12 at my friend's house and he has a kick ass sterio system with surround sound and all and I heard that scene pretty well and I could of sworn that she said rule of God is empy or room of God but I'm pretty sure that it was God. However I did mishear phone as bullet so I'm not sure. I've gotta stop listening to my music so loud. Oh well, back on to the topic. We all know that the reason that these children can pilot is because their mother's souls are in the Evas. Maybe the syncronization thing is simply coincidence. Open your mind and take in this theoy for a sec okay. Maybe their dead mothers are just reincarnated into the Eva's. Forget about this room of Gaf thing for a sec and adopt the possiblility of reincarnation. Since Eva's are technically human they have to get their souls from somewhere and maybe their mothers were just reincarnated into the Eva's. Now we know that Unit-01 is different being based off Lilith's DNA(but still with the body of ADA) and that Yui was in fact absorbed into it thus making Unit-01 the only Eva with such a strong level of self awareness. Rei and kaworu are exceptions however because they are at least part angel and can control the Eva's because they consist of the same matter.
It is confirmed that Auska's mother is in Eva-02 and assumed that Touji's mother is in Eva-03(that must suck having your mother die twice). So what if their mothers were just reincarnated into the Evas. Hey, If I could choose one body to be reincarnated into it would be an Eva no doubt. That'd be helluva cool!


Covax
NERV-Technician
(5/15/00 1:43:26 pm)
142.194.242.127
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3foolishmen said:

"it could be that memories of the past have been "sealed" once ReiSoul returned from the room of Gaph."

Uhm.. just to add my 2 cents.. but I would think the room of Gaph/Guaf/Gaff is just the name of the room with the clone tanks...
"Room of Guaf" being empty meaning that none of the Rei-clones had souls... I mean, what else are you gonna call a room where you make children in a tube?


A T h 401
EVA-Pilot
(5/15/00 11:39:45 pm)
203.21.47.3
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Well Access you said most of what i was going to say but with more info included.

This RoG is important (i think) and it also answers one question which has been floating around the MB Why children born after 2nd impact are the only ones who can become pilets.

Yes fewer children been born, God's 'to do pile' is complete and the last few are processed, but those select children were concieved before 2nd impact? but born after.

I think the awakening of Adam is what opened (closed ) the RoG (if this did not happen the 'to do pile' would be infinte, but when this sign was given, it stopped production)

Rei growing a soul, hmmm 3f (i hope you dont mind the abbreviation) your account of the soul having its memories sealed is a common thought (sort of)

The apsects of reincarnation i have been taught go something like this

The Soul (equated with the Individality -Chesed, Geburah, Tiphareth) is the Higher Self, and exists through the aeons, But in order to learn it creates and projects and image of itself this is the self we know now ( and equates with the Personality- Netzach, Hod, Yesod- Malkuth as well)

now the Personality dies and fragments but its memories are not lost, they are kept by the Individuality. A new vessel is created and a new Personality as well. However some aspects of older Personalities may be used again at any given incarnation.

So to me Rei has one soul (Rei I, II, III is the same soul) but the personality differs. But in Rei's case she is always put back into the same vessel, so it is more of a rearrangement of the fragments than start from scratch.

What do you think?
ATh


Capt Jake
EVA-Pilot
(5/16/00 11:33:24 am)
206.172.239.152
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I agree with A T H a bit there, There have been real life reports of people having some memories left over from their past lives. Rei would have more than usual cuz she is in basically the same body. Maybe her soul does not see her as dead for it just jumps into another body so some memories are left in the brain while others from the soul, parts of you which make you who you are would be carried on. smell what I'm cookin here or does it need further explanation?



fasad
EVA-Pilot
(5/18/00 11:10:40 pm)
203.23.145.164
Reply | Edit | Del Re: children
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a bit on rei...
in the ep 24 of the tv show, she does do so rather unnatural things. she is the one who creates an at field so that shinji can kill kaouru. i think that rei-3 realises what she really is in this episode. she thought something like "in what way am he (kaouru) and i alike?". i say that all three, being the same person have the same soul. just only the 3rd one realised who she was. the differences in personality are also because of different memories.

also on the use of children, it might just be because this word is more japanese friendly to say, ending in and "n" rather than the "ld" of child ??

okay i shortened a cut some of the less relevant posts in the above.......

[Edited by eva2000 on 09-07-2000 at 12:12 AM]

[Wolfpac]

I'm not reading ALL of that.
But why not a 20 year old with a dead mother

[Ura]

One thing that Im not sure if it was mentioned before what happened around 15 years before Evangelion? Second Impact, Pilots must be born after Second Impact (Kaoru was born on the day of it) This is probably because the children did not suffer during the effects of 2I, wars, famine, loss of family members. IE they were innocent and thus could bond with the Eva's better. I noticed that a lot of the adult characters hated the Evas (misato, ritsuko etc.) Well thats my theory its based on innocence

[fireguy]

It is hard to say but I believe more to do what the parents of these kids were doing in regards to the project. Didn't the pilots who were selected had a parent working with the project to some degree. The age thing comes in to a degree but it isn't really a major point.

[Paradox]

The point that everybody keeps raising is that Rei had no mother, but considering she is part Yui, I guess that cancels out.

I mostly wonder about Touji's dad. He said in the 3rd episode that his dad works in a lab, but anything to do with Nerv?

[InnerVortex]

only a people born 9 months after the second impact can synchronize with evas.

[valka]

I´m not sure about the "nine months", Nagisa Kaoru was born september 13th, 1999: the second impact day. Shinji was born in june 6 but Azuka was born in December 4 -almoust 13 mounths later. Rei´s birthday is in september 14th and Touji in December 26th.

[InnerVortex]

well that makes my comment wrong:)
so but it haves to be with the secound impact:D

[InnerVortex]

mey be thats the cause for shinji sincronizes better

[death]

they only have to have a dead mom in the eva

except then how did shiji sinl with unit 00???????

[InnerVortex]

and rei´s mother?

[Shinjikarity]

They got 14 year olds to pilot the evas because that was the age of the target audience they were aiming for.

Plus it's much more interesting watching 14 year olds interact with each other since they are so easily embarassed and emotionally insecure.

IMHO anyway

[Githon]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but after 2nd Impact, didn't they use some form of cloning or something to help repopulate the world? Perhaps when Second Impact occured, there was a type of radiation (Or whatever, gimmie a break here) spread to everyone, and the repopulation of the world carried this over, however, the only ones not exposed to it in one way or another would be the kids concived before and born after second impact.

Of course, it could also be that it's because they're still kids. 14 year olds are pretty different physically, and more importantly, mentally, from adults. Maybe just some of them can do it, and some of them can't. No one wonders why one kid can play the piano and the other can't, but throw in a giant robot, and nooooo, everyone wants some answers.

Then, my third theory: It's cooler that way :P

[heart havok]

inner vortex is right about the nine months thing... ----, it says it on the back of genesis 0:1

[markie]

well.. I read somewhere that there was something different about children born right after the second impact, be it nine months after or whatever, I don't exactly know for sure, but I remember something about the nature of their souls. Children born right after the second impact have no souls is what I seem to remember, except this conflicts with all that I have read and known about the concept of a pilot needing to provide a soul for the EVAs. So right now I'm confused..
any thoughts?

[heart havok]

i remember reading something of the sort as well... i believe that it had something to do with that the children born after the second impact were the only ones with the spiritual energy to connect with the evangelions. hmmm... damn, now i have to find it again so that i type exactly what it said.

[Githon]

MARKIE! You made me remember what's probably the real reason. The Seele guys (Or Gendo... probably Gendo) mentioned that they caused second impact as pennance (Or whatever, you know what I mean) for original sin. So, supposedly, if it actually did, everyone born after second impact would have no original sin (Hey look, a connection to Adam and Eve there, hmmmmm ;)).

Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhh.

Don't you love it when something just clicks in your brain and you yell "Oh, wow, I understand another thing about NGE! Now, if this would only happen about 3,000 more times, I'd be set!"?

[NervCommander]

be fucked if i knew

[Instrumentality]

Original Sin! Of course, Its all so clear now!

They could have used younger than 14 year olds though...

[Githon]

Isn't 14 young enough, you sikko??

It's not a good idea to be subjecting a 14 year old kid (Hell, ANYONE) to all that crap they go through. You think it'd be good if they used people YOUNGER?

[Flameboy1_2002]

why younger

[Pen²]

i dunno what Gethon is thinking but a younger (and not mentally disturbed) pilot would probable consider smashing and hacking at angels a game...and so it wouldn't drive them insane like it did Shinji and depressed like Asuka...

[commanderikari]

Then again, a younger pilot probably wouldn't take to orders to well, or to the precision of a positron rifle sniper shot. And what happens when a 7 year old gets pissed? They hit stuff and cry. Remember the damage when unit-01 berserked? Imagine that kinda thing happenening after every hit! I think that if the pilots were younger they would all behave a lot like asuka, but without as much skill. 'sides, i agree with the thought that the show is cooler with 14 year olds :) just one thing bugs me.... how come when i was 14 none of the girls looked like asuka?

[20eva]

You mean 2 dimensional?


j/k

[Edited by 20eva on 27-08-2000 at 10:58 AM]

[NervCommander]

it would be fucked if they put 12 years olds on it......
that would really screw it up.....

[Instrumentality]

Eh? I'm not a sikko. I was merely saying it as theoretically they could have used younger than 14 year olds. Obviously they didnt because the older someone gets the more mature they are.

[Githon]

While they technically could have used someone younger, don't forget that these are still kids growing up, there's a lot of physical and mental development that would probably be important to just starting the damn thing. I doubt a 7 year old, not only be terrifyed of just SEEING the robot (Nevermind having to fight a bigass monster), is gonna stick around when they find out it hurts when the robot gets hit.

As for the little kid NOT going insane, I don't know where you got that idea. A 14 year old is gonna have enough trouble memorizing all the crap about the power, the 1 minute, 5 minute, and 16 hour conservation things, where the guns are, what the hell the Type-B, Type-D, Type-Whatever equipment is, etc etc etc. Younger kids are going to be more frightened of all this crap (Dropping you in a volcano? Lost in that damn Sea of Dirac?), and far less obiediant since they don't understand the seriousness of the situation.

They even complain about having to use people as young as 14, you think they're gonna opt for younger??

[20eva]

I think one of the interesting elements of the series are the ages the adults, namely Misato and Ritsuko. They're about 29-30: give or take a year and its about the same age many NGE fans (at least on this forum) would be in 2015. Its like a vision of your own future (of course, I don't take it literally). Sometimes I watch it and I'm like; what would I be doing in that situation, at that age? The characters would've been my peers.

[Lord Henry]

The only reference to the pilots age is when Ritsko says, Ep 1 or 2 to Gendo 'We need kids like this to be pilots'.

I think she is simply stating a general anime rule: youngsters, often schoolgirls, must be pilots, or poor ratings result.

[EvaRobby]

It's because... 12 year olds suck! :evil: and I can just imagine a toddler in the eva
Misato: Evangelion launch
Pilot: weeeeeeeeee (evangelion gets to surface, looks at angel, Eva waves)
Pilot: hawwo (Eva walks awkwardly towards angel, angel attacks)
Pilot: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! (game over)

[Nairohe]

hahaha!!!

[Access]

Wolfpac
" I'm not reading ALL of that.
But why not a 20 year old with a dead mother"

Damn half assed evantologists...... dont be a lazy bum, if you want to learn then read.... if not... their is always the Pokemon thread!

[Instrumentality]

Really? Where's that?

[EvaRobby]

.....I didn't wanna read it either.....uh, so I read about half of it before I decided it was too long, so I kinda...skipped it...

[Nexus]

It might sound a bit simple, but i think they used 14 year olds because they were born a year after second impact. Maybe there was some kind of radioactive fallout or something which affected babies and that lasted about a year. This radiation made it possible for the babies to pilot the Evas later on.

[Oogami Ichirou]

Hiya Nexus! And Welcome to the forums! ^_^

[Shinigami]

I've got a question: Why not 14 year olds?

[Coign]

This is the point! The reason the series is such a talk topic is the lack of information, also made because it was a parody on religion. Therefore, nothing is certain.
*chuckle*

[eva2000]

Originally posted by Nexus
It might sound a bit simple, but i think they used 14 year olds because they were born a year after second impact. Maybe there was some kind of radioactive fallout or something which affected babies and that lasted about a year. This radiation made it possible for the babies to pilot the Evas later on. hi ya Nexus and welcome to my forums :D

[Longinuss]

Wouldn't it be cool if Rei, Shinji and Asuka would be like 6 years old?

Asuka: Shinji! Gimme some candy now!
Shinji: Waaah! Tosa! Asuka's teasing me again!
Rei watches silently as the two argue.

Gendo: ...
Fuyutsuki: Shouldn't we stop them? Shinji's out of candy, and God knows what happens if Asuka can't have it her way.
Gendo:...

Asuka: Go down, damn you! *Hits Shinji in the head with plastic shovel* Candy, now!
Shinji: Waaah! Waaah!
Rei watches silentle as the two argue.

Maya: Object detected in Tokyo 3! Pattern blue, confirmed Angel!
Ritsuko: Fetch the Children! Prepare evas for launch!

Some time later, in the center of Tokyo 3.

Asuka: Go down, damn you! *Just after that, Angel chops Eva02 to pieces*
Shinji: *Sees destruction of eva02* I mustn't run away, I mustn't run away, I mustn't....*Angel starts to approach eva01*

Shinji: I mustn't run.... aww poo! *Turns eva01 from Angel and runs like hell to the sunset*

Wouldn't it be cool, huh?

And Nexus, it won't be like this allways. Once in a while there actually are some threads with some sense in them. ONCE in a LONG WHILE.