To kill or not to kill

[Rulakir]

***Spoilers***




When Gatts is out on his mission to assassinate Yurius and succeeds, he also takes the life of Adonis. The setting was all dark and all he knew was that someone saw him commit the murder. However, when he took a close look after he stabbed Adonis, he realized that he was only a kid... a kid he could relate to based on his own past with Gambino. The look on his face after killing Adonis was fear, regret, shock etc.

If the room was lighted up more, would he have killed Adonis because he caught Gatts in the action?

Or would he have spared his life because he was just a child, seeing the expression after he actually killed him?

[Drizzten]

***SPOILERS***






As I remember it, he saw Adonis in the hallway with enough time and lighting to know who it was. Gatts, however, was so absorbed in his mission and energized by the fear of capture, he killed Adonis anyway. It wasn't until the immediate adrenaline of the killing subsided that Gatts truely realized what he did. I need to watch the episodes again, but I strongly recall that Gatts at least knew he was attacking a child.

This being the case or not, I still think Gatts would have killed him. Gatts is a trustworthy and effective killer who has probably killed young people before. During this part of the series, Griffith had Gatts' undivided attention and loyalty. I think the only things Gatts wouldn't have done would be killing Caska or Griffith himself.

[tekblade]

hrm i prob agree with drizzten, cause he was sent on a mission to kill someone and since someone saw that, he couldnt had let them live cause if could had jepordise griffith and his position that he had gained and since he was loyal to him, he would kill anyone that would somehow affect griffith

[Alesil]

I wouldn`t really call Gatts a "good" character at all (in alignment, not quality).

The idea of killing children (or innocents at least) being bad is a result of society raising us with that belief. This is due to the necesity of order in society. If everybody could kill who they wanted then we`d probably be doing it with sticks and stones. :D
This is necessary for most humans to prosper, allthough sometimes it goes too far with sad cases such as Vash the Stampede (he`s an imaginary character, but similar to quite a few real ones).

Gatts on the other hand was raised by mercenaries and been killing all his life, I seriously doubt a "normal" person wouldn`t been downright evil after a childhood like his. The "post-trip to hell" Gatts in the manga is a lot eviler than anything I`ve seen in the anime btw. Here`s a few quotes (sorta) from a chapter of it:

*Gatts has been travelling with an old man and his (grand?)daughter for a few days. Eventually they`re attacked by demons/undead and the girl dies. While Gatts is out chopping monsters, the girl rises as a zombie and kills the old man. After killing the entire bunch (girl included) Gatts is winded up and the fairy he`s been travelling with (did I mention I really, really dislike comic sidekicks? :mad: ) tries to comfort him for the incident.*

*After Gatts having fought the monsters all night, the fairy descends to the battlefield and his horrified by the carnage. After a long silence and staring at Gatss...*

Fairy(looking sad): ... What happened to those two, it`s not your fault about...

Gatts: *laughs*
Gatts(grinning and clearly amused): ohhh... Really? Is that so?
Fairy: *looks terrified*
Gatts: I thought I told you before, in the time of battle the loss of innocent lives is innevitable. That`s just a part of fate.
Gatts: You can`t take a step if you worry about the insects you crushing while you`re walking... I warned them...
Gatts(mad glare): they accepted the danger of me travelling with them. That`s all there is to it.

*After that demons start haunting Gatts again and the scene degenerates into madness*

Earlier in the chapter he declares how he "hate`s weaklings like you" and "seeing the makes him want to crush them" to the fairy.

Errr... I have no idea what I`ve been ranting about again. Anyways, I think my point was that Gatts isn`t the common "good goody" hero that`s so usual in anime. He`s somebody much, much darker than that, but at the same somebody much, much more intresting too. :cool:

[Nagha's revenge]

God yes, SPOILERS as if the two top most posts aren't enough of a warning.

Alesil
... Gatts in the manga is a lot eviler than anything I`ve seen in the anime btw. Here`s a few quotes (sorta) from a chapter of it:
...

Guts never was good in the anime. He always was as evil as that, Griffith changed him. We remember him most as a nice guy with hope because we see that during the entire series. Then again Griffith also pushed him over the deep end. I think that excerpt was taken after Griffith turned into Femto.

As for Guts killing Adonis. He would, once he starts fighting. He goes Berserk.
I don't think anyone can say it better than that.

[Alesil]

Errr, ok. It was just that the common forum oppinion seemed to consider Gatts "the good guy hero", but you`ll have to forgive my ignorance if I`m wrong, since I`m new here. :)

Anyway, I think my point was that Gatts should have no ethic problem with killing the kid.

[Rafal]

Originally posted by Alesil
Anyway, I think my point was that Gatts should have no ethic problem with killing the kid.

I have to disagree, I don't think Gutts is the heartless bastard that he seems to be, allthough I wouldn't classify him as a 'good' character. In D&D terms I would probably say 'Chaotic Neutral' or 'True Neutral', I'm not sure.

If you've watched the anime or read the manga there are several instances where Gatts does show that he has a strong conscience and is wrestling with it, but it's all buried deep down under several layers of self-protection built up in the years.
In the example you gave about Gatts traveling with an old man and his daughter you have to take note that Gatts first didn't want to team up with them. This was obviously a conscientious decision of Gatts, because he knew that by travelling with them he would be putting them in danger, and he didn't want that. Only after they insist he agrees, but that's because he thinks people are free to make their own choices, and if that's what they really want, even knowing the possible consequences, then that's what they should do. They are ultimately the ones responsible for their own choices, not he.

A good reason for his supposedly cold behavior is that if he would allow every innocents death get to him he would become vulnerable, as well physically as mentally. And since he is a warrior in his heart and soul (also one big self-defence mechanism?) he just can't let that happen. But that doesn't mean that his true feelings won't surface sometimes (but he controls them real fast afterwards). I think the same counts for when he killed the little kid; he knows that the death of innocent bystanders can't be avoided, but in this instance it got to him for a short moment somehow, perhaps the kid reminded him a bit of himself when he was young. And this probably triggered the surfacing of the regretful feelings deep inside him. Well, anyway, feel free to argue/disagree.:)

[Alesil]

Errr... I`m probably contradicting myself (due to typing the previous posts while I was very tired and not even remembering half of it anymore), but my point (currently) is that somebody who`s lived a life like Gatts has, shouldn`t have that much in the way of morals. His entire life has been around slaughtering and never has he been taught morals, or at the very least he shouldn`t remember any of it since his foster mother died while he was so young (while his real mother died before he was even born...).

To me Gatts is a examplory case of Chaotic Neutral. Not enjoying suffering of others, but not going out of his was to prevent it. Lives only to fight and dislikes order/can`t stay in one place for long (not to mention his awesome attitude :cool: ). He`s inspired more than a few RPG characters for me, even though I never managed to be quite as cool as him. :)