Jin Row

[Rugal]

wow...just wow

i watched this today and was completely stunned by the ending. i dont want to go to deep into the story so i dont ruin for those who havent seen it. but the plot twisted always kept you one step behind. one of the better anime i've seen

please discuss

[akwan50]

Uh, the correct spelling is Jin-Roh.

And I still need to check this out. Still got the DVD lying around somewhere. I've heard nothing but good things about it.

[Ngine]

yeah, Jin-Roh really is a great anime, so watch that DVD right now Akwan50!

anywayz, there have been like, 5 Jin-Roh discussions over the past month, not including this one. so that means that this movie really is something, and it is!

[Rugal]

if you look i noticed my error and fixed it but it didnt change it on the tittle screen

[AnkaraStark]

Hehe Jin-Roh, hon ^_~

Anyways, I absolutely loved this film. It has been one of my favorites since my friend first let me borrow his DVD to view it... That is one kick-arse film... And the music is also sensational. A great soundtrack to go along with a great movie. Ahh, the joys in life ;)

[ParticleEffect]

it was ok. well done but i don't like the end, i get enough sadness and helplesnes from the real world.

[Excession]

I really enjoyed Jin-Roh (The Wolf Brigade), and own the DVD.

It was a very well-told story, with lovely animation. It did include some heavy-gunned action, but the film did not ride on it, rather focussing more on the characters involved in the situation.

I do not know how many of you have seen films of this kind, but it reminded me very strongly of the kind of piece you see made about what happened in Ireland involving the IRA. While the plot does deviate (the outcomes and happenings are different), the situations faced by characters in the film are very similar to those that occur in movies about the Irish story.
As for the ending, I felt it fit perfectly and I appreciated the way it complimented what was already a great film.

Goodness, it rather hard to talk about it without risking spoiling for others, isn't it?

In any case, if you have not yet seen Jin-Roh, do not deprive yourself!

[ParticleEffect]

I might as well warn people of possible spoiler content.

It was well told, but the ending just conveys such helplessness and failure. I should be the last person arguing about this type of thing and as much as I hate the world, id never let someone get the better of me. Even if it cost my life id damn sure take them with me. I just don't agree with the message of not being able to change things. I think anything can be changed, though I don't really care about things, I wouldn’t let someone think they could tell me what to do. Probably as powerful of my devaluation of human life is my somewhat contradictory drive to not let someone think they can better me.

Well, that’s why I overall just don't like Jin-Roh, I just don't agree with the message.

[Excession]

Um, not really spoilers...but a general idea as to the direction the end of the film takes.


I think that the way the ending was done stayed very true to the underlying themes of the film.

To me a "happy" ending would have seemed quite trite in this case, not that I mind happy endings if correctly placed.

But then, anime appreciation is a very personal thing, so we can really do nothing but passively express our opinions (providing they are reasonable).

[thedarkmarine]

Tragedies are always the best. You feel at peace afterwards, and it touches you the most.

I liked the ending, the twists in the story. The music created great atmosphere. It's one of those movies that will get better with each rewatch.

[ParticleEffect]

I’m not saying it was done badly. But I just don’t agree with the message. If everyone just took a defeatist attitude than nothing much would ever get done in the world. And I saw it coming by at least the middle of the movie.

edit- The message of the movie was pathetic, as was the ending. It doesnt have to be some fairy tale ending, but adopting that kind of attitude is pathetic.

[Ryoma]

I thought Jin-Roh was the most overrated anime film I'd ever seen. It's boring as hell in the middle and at no point did I ever feel anything for the characters. I mean how attached can I get to the male lead when all his dialog in the movie can be written on one piece of paper, maybe half. And I never saw the slightest spark between him and the girl, so the ending for me was one character who I never developed anything for, shooting another character who I never developed anything for and quite frankly didn't think the shooter ever cared about the shootee.

And was it a surprise to anyone? Really? Now the Sixth Sense, THAT was a surprise ending.

[ParticleEffect]

exactly, and i must say, I LOVE endings like in the 6th sense! YEH that is like the best kind of ending ever!!!
howbout a shot out! *me just yelling extaticly* and another live action movie with an ending like that *arg this might spoil something so be warned* was devils advocate. good stuff.



really, i love those curve ball endings.

[Excession]

I actually did not think, at any point, that the film was trying to send out a message.
I thought it was just a film to be watched (and in my case enjoyed), rather than something intended to send messages dicatating how to approach life in general. *shrugs*

As for it being "boring"...I'll grant it was not meant to be a furious action film. Sure there was an element of that, but the film was not meant to be about that.

[BigShot Jordan]

I thought the entire movie was just flawless. The animation, the art, the music, the storyline, the characters, and the diolauge all justflowed together with great directoral flare. This, in my opinion, is Oshii's greatest work to date.
I thought the ending was great, it had such a heavy feeling.

*SPOILER*

It was all so tense then all of the sudden *BAM*. You could tell Fuse was mentally destroyed at that point with the look on his face. Some people ask me if it was the guys in the shed that shot Kei. I thought Fuse did it since there was smoke coming out of the gun's barrel. If a bullet were to have fired from that far away there wouldn't be smoke.


Man, that really was a great movie.

see you space cowboys.

[thedarkmarine]

Originally posted by Ryoma
I thought Jin-Roh was the most overrated anime film I'd ever seen. It's boring as hell in the middle and at no point did I ever feel anything for the characters. I mean how attached can I get to the male lead when all his dialog in the movie can be written on one piece of paper, maybe half. And I never saw the slightest spark between him and the girl, so the ending for me was one character who I never developed anything for, shooting another character who I never developed anything for and quite frankly didn't think the shooter ever cared about the shootee.

And was it a surprise to anyone? Really? Now the Sixth Sense, THAT was a surprise ending.

I think the characters loved each other because they were each other's escape from reality. Not all love is full blown. Frankly, full blown love cliche is making Hollywood really boring.

[Excession]

Actually, it’s worth noting, that I had the Sixth Sense figured out before it reached its conclusion.
Didn’t the fact, among other things, that the beloved son’s psychiatrist had no contact with the mother, at any point, tip you off?
She clearly loved the boy to distraction, yet took no part in what would have been a vastly expensive set of therapy sessions. Irregardless of money, or the worth of said therapy, surely she would have wanted to converse at least a few times with the man whose job it was to help her son, when all that was evident was an increase in anxiety?

On the other hand, Jin-Roh had me wondering whether Fuse would sacrifice himself and die with her out of love (by taking no action), or take the path he did (complying with the requirements of the Wolf Brigade – the perverted “duty” his society forced upon him being tragically stronger than love).

[ParticleEffect]

I thought the prevailing message of the movie was that we can’t change who we are and what we are.

Killing her showed a major lack of character. He didn’t have to die with her or anything wasteful, he could have been in control the entire ending. He knew it was coming, while he was alone wearing his suit he easily could have killing everyone there. But he was just a spineless puss that let people tell him what to do.

Stupid prevailing message+stupid male lead-good animation=stupid. :D

And about 6th sense, i never really saw it coming because i wasn't paying attention to his mom or looking for more of her in the movie.

[Excession]

I am not exactly sure she would have been overly charmed by the brutality and betrayal that would have been involved, had he turned on the other members of his group and slaughtered them. Would she really have put up with that being done before her very eyes, yet still remained open to the idea of loving the man?

There is a difference between open betrayal and visible killing of men who are considered to be your allies, and the hunting down, out of sight, of a group of people intent upon killing you.


Please don't make blanket statements and generalisations such as "Stupid prevailing message" and "Stupid male lead". They are based entirely upon your opinion and do nothing to further your argument. They do tend to denote a lack of thought - whether or not that is, in reality, the case.

[ParticleEffect]

Stupid message- I arrive at that conclusion because the message that "we can't change who we are and what we are" is a weak statement that if followed would slow the development of the human race. We’d just be a bunch of drones never striving for more with a philosophy like that.

Stupid male lead- He is weak, he does what he is told even when he doesn’t agree. He isn't exactly the type of person I can image people wanting to be; subservient and obedient without a ruling set of personal morals. The kind of person I hate is someone who follows over ruling their own beliefs.


And to bad if she doesn't like it, its kill or be killed and I damn sure wouldn't stand and be killed or kill someone I didn't want to.

[thedarkmarine]

Hm...guess you wouldn't like 1984 either.

Is that the real message? Or might it be to make you stand up for yourself even more, as you do now?

[ParticleEffect]

never saw 1984.

its possible, then revalueing the movie. but i guess someone would need to ask the person(s) behind the story. and that's something i don't care to bother with. i guess i just take it as i had seen it because im not really looking for philosophy i already believe.

[thedarkmarine]

1984 is a book by George Orwell. Very good read.

Thing about movies, it's is about the viewer's take, not the author's purpose.

[Excession]

Originally posted by ParticleEffect
Stupid male lead- He is weak, he does what he is told even when he doesn’t agree. He isn't exactly the type of person I can image people wanting to be; subservient and obedient without a ruling set of personal morals. The kind of person I hate is someone who follows over ruling their own beliefs.


Do you feel that, given the fact the she did follow her "belief" Short Hair was a better person than Fuse? She contributed in a direct way to the killing of many, many police and probably a few civilians into the bargain - because she believed in her cause. Those men probably had families. Probably had children.

Fuse on the other hand, was employed to kill the minority (i.e. less than the rest of the population they were putting at risk) terrorist (of freedom force, depending upon how you look upon it) group.


And to bad if she doesn't like it, its kill or be killed and I damn sure wouldn't stand and be killed or kill someone I didn't want to.

I suppose he wanted to kill the other members of the Wolf Brigade then?
He pretty obviously didn't want to kill Short Hair, because she was a mere child, and he did stop. He did not shoot, but rather asked her why she wanted to sacrifice herself. That resulted in his nearly being dismembered by a massive explosion.

I understand your comments and views, but I can't say I agree with them. The issues involved in the movie (including social climate, radical groups as fanatical as any terrorists, the love that developed, the fact that Fuse had been traumatized by the death of a young girl, the fact that Long Hair was her sister and that he was actually a part of a counter-intel group) are simply not that black and white.

Besides all of which, the rule of thumb in your very own country probably happens to be the same as what caused the tragic ending (much as I thought it was good).
Secret services state "I could tell you, but I then would have to kill you." - They are not joking.
Neither were the Wolf Brigade, after Long Hair became aware of each and every member’s identity.

By the way, your profile seems to clash with the stance you wish to take on this matter...
Not to mention that its mildly worrying in its own right to find a person with something like "life is valueless, the pain of others is my only pleasure to destroy the world and die when im done" in their profile.

[Ryoma]

Originally posted by Excession

I understand your comments and views, but I can't say I agree with them. The issues involved in the movie (including social climate, radical groups as fanatical as any terrorists, the love that developed, the fact that Fuse had been traumatized by the death of a young girl, the fact that Long Hair was her sister and that he was actually a part of a counter-intel group) are simply not that black and white.


You know, I agree that all of those elements are at play in the movie. And if the director had done a better job selling them to me, I think I would have loved it. There in lies my problem with JR. All of the stuff you mention above is thrown at the wall and the viewer is expected to make it stick. And IMO, it didn't. Don't put two characters together, give us about 5 mins of scenes with them together, and expect me to think they are madly in love. I'm not buying the bill of goods without some proof. And I didn't get it. And I never got the impression that Fuse was all that traumatized over the death of the young girl, but I will agree it affected him to some degree. The counter-intel part was the only thing I actually liked about the ending. I admit I didn't see that coming, but at that point as was disgusted at the fact this "romance" was jammed down my throat that I was simply waiting for the other shoe to fall.
As for the terrorist element...are they really terrorists or the good guys...I think Oshii did a much better job in Patlabor 2 exploring those elements then he did in JR.

[ParticleEffect]

ok, im tired of talking about the movie.

-about the author-

i have no problem with countless people dieing, they are valueless to me, as is my own life. me alive is a contradiction of my own philosophy, but there is a reason for it. with all my ideals, even know i devalue life, i would never let someone tell me who to kill.

if you really want to know more, than you can look up all the explaining ive done already in mo, but don't bump the threads because im tired of talking about it for a while. :)