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DrZepp
30-07-02, 09:26 AM
Im going to make this short, but this is kind of a test to see how many people are still up for some minor discussion around here.

*spoilers obviously*

We know that the Towa Organization developed this drug. I assumed that it was Type-S or at least something similar. A substance to essentially create 'slaves' as Saotome (sp) said, or in other forms composite humans. But i am still unsure about its exact origins -if any are present- and as i look back i am questioning my previous ideas.

First I would like to touch on Nagi though, because i know originally i thought that she was administered the 'drug' which was what sent her into the hospital in the first place. But later on Kuroda says he injected her with a vaccine (remember that scene?) to stop her 'growth'.
This made me wonder: what exactly had caused Nagis abnormal growth that -she said- would eventually turn her into a monster (assuming my previous theory was wrong). I see a couple possibilities: I guess the Towa Organization could have given her the drug somehow, through one of the composite humans maybe. There isnt much backing that one up though. The series does seem to imply that Nagi was a 'special' child, yet she was in the hospital before 'the light' incident... to me it would almost appear as if she was one out of ten thousand (or however many) kids that were special. But could her evolution have been stopped by Kurodas vaccine?

I took it that when Echoes consciousness was spread out through the city (in episode one, and touched on in almost all episodes after) the evolution of certain kids was sped up preemptively. I only say this because i specifically remember Morita in episode 5 saying that one out of every ten thousand kids is 'special'. Yet in the series we see a shitload of them discovering these 'powers'... Thats not one in every ten thousand... and they are all brought on by the light incident it seems.
So this brings up several other things, namely the cerial killings from '5 years ago'. Ive heard people say that back then the killer was hunting down evolved kids (humans)... but according to what Morita says in episode 5, not that many of them should be evolved, at least not yet. So if the cerial killer (assumed to be Dr. whats her name... Kisugi or something) was hunting down evolved humans, then what would have caused this premature evolution 5 years ago?
Maybe the drug.
Hah im sure in some way Echoes is involved ¬¬

Nairohe
30-07-02, 11:18 AM
WARNING: random thoughts that will be organized in the future... maybe.

-Nagi was one of the special children. She was evolving. She was admitted to the Hospital because she was an evolving human. If I remember correctly, in the hospital, they did administer the kids with certain drugs (same thing that happened to butterfly girl's mom. I believe they were trying to find a way to make the evolution process faster. Nagi happens to be one of the subjects but she's an actual evolving human being.) Kuroda, seeing the danger in this (and perhaps because he started 'liking' her?) administered her a vaccine drug to 'stop' the evolution process.

-The serial killer from 5 years ago was in search of Suema. Suema happens to be one of the evolving kids.

(my mouse is being a pain and my break time cut short. edit and add later. meep.)

DrZepp
31-07-02, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by Nairohe
WARNING: random thoughts that will be organized in the future... maybe.

-Nagi was one of the special children. She was evolving. She was admitted to the Hospital because she was an evolving human. If I remember correctly, in the hospital, they did administer the kids with certain drugs (same thing that happened to butterfly girl's mom. I believe they were trying to find a way to make the evolution process faster. Nagi happens to be one of the subjects but she's an actual evolving human being.) Kuroda, seeing the danger in this (and perhaps because he started 'liking' her?) administered her a vaccine drug to 'stop' the evolution process.



The doctor in the hospital, and the one who we see giving Miyumi (manakas mom) the drug is the serial killer of 5 years ago.
If your thinking that the drug speeds up the evolution process, then do you think Kuroda was trying to stop the artificial means of evolution, or Nagis natural evolution all together? Why would Kuroda want to stop it though... Maybe it did have to do with personal reasons.

Originally posted by Nairohe


-The serial killer from 5 years ago was in search of Suema. Suema happens to be one of the evolving kids.


I dont think Suema is an evolving kid... They said as much in the directors commentary. The killer was apparently after her because she 'knew too much'.
Actually Suema has often been marked as a metaphor for the veiwers, in search of 'answers' so to speak, but nonetheless i think shes 'normal'.

GigaSheep
04-09-02, 07:03 PM
there is a bit of confusion here.

Towa organization = anti-change (in general)

Towa's special drug = anti-change (stops evolution)

Kuroda steals it and gives it to Nagi to stop her evolution.

The drug was produced at during the original composite human experiments as a sort of antidote in case things got out of control.

Shadow War
04-09-02, 09:03 PM
I believe that Suema is just a "normal" girl with special friends. I think that the reason that Nagi's Evolution was stopped because she was going to one of the most "evolved" out of them all. The increasing number of Evolutions in the city would suggest that it had something to do with the Electromagnetic field. When in the end it dissolves life goes on as normal.

The light did increase the amount of Evolutions and that is why Boogiepop was hard at work stopping the evolution. That comes back to another question, is Toka evolved?

The problem is that we only get half the story because the series is based on a series of books. Unless we all learn japanese we will never know the full story.

GigaSheep
05-09-02, 07:09 PM
Boogiepop does not stop the evolution, per se, just the threats to change.

On the contrary, Boogiepop Phantom preserves the Oikawa sibings (a yin/yang metaphor), who are evolved kids.

DrZepp
09-09-02, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by GigaSheep
there is a bit of confusion here.

Towa organization = anti-change (in general)

Towa's special drug = anti-change (stops evolution)

Kuroda steals it and gives it to Nagi to stop her evolution.

The drug was produced at during the original composite human experiments as a sort of antidote in case things got out of control.

Ok, this basically states that the drug in no way helped to further anyones evolution. But it could be questioned if it is truly 'anti change'. I say this only because of Yoji (the dude who played the datig sim game).
When he kept taking the drug it was as if he devolved into some zombie state... Now it could be said that this wasnt entirely because of the drug, but it sure as hell seemed like it played a part -it seemed to have similar effects on Sunami as well-.
To me, it didnt seem that Yoji or Sunami were evolved children (especially because that episode took place before the light incident)

I have to go for now, but ill try to flesh this out more later

GigaSheep
09-09-02, 06:01 PM
You are confusing TYPE-S and the drug Kuroda stole from the Organization (the same one Dr.Kisugi administers). The second drug is called 'SLAVE', as mentioned in the novels and movie.

TYPE-S is a red, inhaled drug.
SLAVE is a slivery, injected drug.

DrZepp
10-09-02, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by GigaSheep
You are confusing TYPE-S and the drug Kuroda stole from the Organization (the same one Dr.Kisugi administers). The second drug is called 'SLAVE', as mentioned in the novels and movie.

TYPE-S is a red, inhaled drug.
SLAVE is a slivery, injected drug.

well, it sure as hell would help if i had seen the movie, or read the novels. Although that does sound slightly familiar for some reason... Maybe because Soatome says 'the S is for Slave' or something.

GigaSheep
11-09-02, 07:54 AM
Exactly. Saotome mentions SLAVE.

While it is useful to know about the movie and novels, the more I learn about them, the more I realize that the anime series was designed to work as a stand-alone as well.

A lot of things were omitted from the story to prevent overcrowding (and a few were added). Also, some plot points were modified. E.g. the light event in the movie is rather different.

DrZepp
11-09-02, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by GigaSheep
Exactly. Saotome mentions SLAVE.


So going by the anime alone, wouldnt this imply that Type-S was SLAVE, or some mutation of it. I agree that Boogiepop should be able to work as a stand alone peice, but some points are left in extreme ambiguity. I guess thats part of why its so good though.

GigaSheep
15-09-02, 08:27 PM
Type-S *is* a permutation of SLAVE. It's basicaly an inhalable version that goes straight to the brain membrane.