The Light...

[Shadow War]

Ok I am trying to figure out 100% who was at the light incident.

Boogiepop was there trying to kill the Manticore. Echoes was there, Satome was there I think. Anyone I missed? What really happened?

[heart havok]

Toka, as Boogiepop, is on the rooftop with the Manticore, at the time Minako; who will later be the face of Boogiepop Phantom, dangling by her neck from Boogiepop's cord. then we have the true Saotome, who at the time had feelings for the true Minako, running towards Echoes {who GigaSheep believes is, at the time, Kuroda - though there's equal evidence for and against this theory} who is kneeling on the floor which becomes the base area of the pillar of light.

now, "what brought this to be?" is a tough question. my main concern, is that i'm still not certain why Saotome would be running towards Echoes like that.

[Shadow War]

Yeah, the real question is why? Why were they all there? Maybe if we had seen the movie or read the novels we might know.

[DrZepp]

Personally i think that when the light incident took place it wasnt the 'true' Saotome. Why? because we see him in episode 4 i think (the one that takes place before the first episode) with Minaka -who is at the time the manticore- just watching her eat Tsunami. I think he was a composite human at the time.

Heres how i think the light scene is set up:

In the episode where we see Manaka give Kishida (who is really Kuroda) that 'memory' of him kneeling down and Boogiepop whispering something in his ear, Kishida has no recollection of the memory. I beleive at that point -in the memory- he was inhabited by Echoes. I cant remember if it actually said this in the series, if i heard it on the directors commentary, or if i read it somewhere, but the memory is supposedly Boogiepop urging Echoes on to track down his 'evil twin' the Manticore.
I do think that Echoes was searching for Manticore, and i think this is what led him to the roof top where the light scene took place.
The others are slightly easier to place on the scene. Boogiepop could have either been trailing Echoes or Minaka, eitherway she was hunting down Manticore as well i beleive. Minaka and Saotome probably arrived together, only to be confronted by Boogiepop and or Echoes.
Nagi was most likely attracted to the scene by her little electromagnetic compass thing.

It ends up with Boogiepop hanging Minaka/Manticore with her cord, Nagi slashing Kuroda which releases Echoes, and Saotome running towards Echoes -in the form of 'the light'- as hes being released.

I think there are a couple theories that could be thrown around as to why Saotome ran towards the light. Personally, like i said above, i think Saotome was a composite human at the time... or at least something like that. If so, he might have known what would happen if Echoes conciousness was spread throughout the city... So maybe Saotome was actually trying to contain Echoes in himself by jumping forward, instead of letting it be spread throughout the city. Instead of going as planned Saotomes 'being' could have been integrated into the light and via the light Manticore got into him when it fled from Minaka.

As we know, when Echoes was released into the city it resulted in the children evolving rapidly. This is what i assume Saotome and any other composite human would want to prevent.

[GigaSheep]

[yo. i'm back after a long hiatus]

very nice! I agree with all this description of the light.

I'll add some more about why boogiepop phantom has minako's face.

***
Kuroda, at the centre of the light, contained echoes at that point.

Echoes, the amalgamation of mankind's thoughts and memoires, is spread across the city when the light rises into the sky.

As phantom says "only the memory of this hat and cloak remained". This same hat and cloak belonged to Kuroda when he was the organization's composite human 'scarecrow'.

Kuroda's 'scarecrow' version dies as shown in ep12 after he saves nagi and toka takes his hat/cloak.

Scarecrow/Kuroda is the Boogiepop "original" that Phantom refers to in ep8. At the light event, Minako/Manticore could not see Kuroda because of Booogiepop's stangling cord.

Boogiepop had no memory of its 'own' face, so when the 'hat and cloak' memory (boogiepop) escaped as electromagnetic interferece, and scanned through the Maticore's mind, it still had no idea what face it had/should have. Therefore, it used the memory of the only available face at the time: Minako. It 'got' her face when scanning her brain.

Now, Boogiepop and Manticore are stuck on the same electromagnetic waves. This is how phantom knows where Manticore is going to show up in ep8.

***

Hope that clears things up. As for why the scene happened in the first place.

It is hinted that Boogiepop and Nagi sometimes work together, as in the death of serial killer doctor kisugi (flashed in ep6). The light event is one such case where Nagi + Boogiepop cooperate.

The Minako/Saotome/Nagi love triangle was being confronted on the roof. Nagi knew Minako was the manticore, so it was a set-up.
Boogiepop had encouraged Echoes to come there too (as in ep8) so at the same time, Boogiepop strangles Minako/manticore and Nagi slashes Echoes face with a knife (this is flashed in ep11). This releases Echoes light by mortally wounding him, the idea being that his light blowing apart the Manticore would be the only way to end things. But, Saotome jumps in front of the light to save Minako by 'taking the bullet'.

But this whole thing backfires, because instead Saotome becomes the Manticore and Manaka inherits some of Echoes power. We know the whole roof incident was pre-planned when in ep10, Boogiepop says 'i should have known that the events of that evening ...' would have these repercussions.

***

TADA!!

[sunset]

This event is throughfully describbed in the Boogiepop and Others movie.

Echoes had come to town in search of Maanticore, his clone who had already kiiled and assumed the form of Minako.

After being rejected by Nagi, Saotome found her hidden in the school, feeding on some student.
Amazed by her power, Saotome engaged in a relation with Manticore who, herself, was eager for someone ("I was alone all the time until he came").
Manticoe´s tears were the poison Saotome started selling on the streets as (Type S)lave.

Meanwhile, Echoes arrived in town.
Exhausted, injured and desperate, he was about to fall into a pit of despair when Boogiepop appeared before him and told him something like:
"- You´ll have time for that later, now you have someone to find!"
With his last remaining strenghts he searched across town for his clone until he felt in an alley, just in time to be found by a schoolgirl called Naoko who felt sorry for him and hid him at the same school where Saotome was keeping Minako.
Through a telepatic link, Naoko learned from him all about the Towa organization, Manticore and Echoes´quest.
Naoko was a friend of Nagi and she imediatelly told her about Echoes.
I don´t think Nagi had time to meet Echoes in person since she was at the time busy investigating a new drug that was tunring students into zombies, but she learnt enough to be en garde.
Eventually, Echoes regained his strenghts to go after Manticure.
When Naoko returned to their hideout, she found it empty; while searching for him in the rest of the school, she bumped into Saotome and Manticore and was killed.
Saotome was aggravated because Nagi had just beat the crap outta him and his entre posse in her quest for the Manticore who she had figured was behind the Slave drug.
So, the guy decided to arm Nagi a setup by going to class rep Kei with some lame story about Naoko.
Kei, under Saotome´s directions, aired a comunicate to the whole school calling for Nagi to come to the radio room where she had information about Naoko´s whereabouts.
Nagi imediatelly suspected it was a setup, but Naoko´s ex-boyfriend (and archer extraordinaire) Shizu felt for it and imediatelly head for the room to ask Kei on any information.
While Kei, Saotome and Shizu were talking, Nagi burst into the room and zapped them all (apparently, shoot first and ask later is her policy).
She took them to Naoko and Echoes´hideout and while she was questioning them all, Manticore entered the scenne.
Nagi and her started fighting.
By chance, Echoes also returned to the hideout where he confronted Manticore; Saotome took the chance and injected Echoes with a lethal dose of the Slave drug and he ended up subdued.
Nagi and Manticore then fought while Shizu and Kei fled the scenne scared.
Manticore´s face was partically ruined in the battle, but Saotome saw an opening and slit Nagi´s throat, killing her.
(This is what gets to me: Nagi and Echoes vs Manticore and Saotome and they STILL lose like a couple amateurs? WHO writes a fight like that?)
Leaving Nagi´s corpse and a dying Echoes behind, Manticore and Saotome chased after Kei with a plan to replace the clone´s ruined face by the class rep´s.
As Manticore was about to capture Kei, Boogiepop used her plumbob on the clone, grabbing her by the throat.
Boogiepop had clearly got to Shizu first since at her signal, he threw an arrow with an attached syringe with another lethal dose of the Slave drug in the tip at Manticore.
With Manticore on her dying breath, Echoes burst into the scenne, he himself on his last leg as well.
Echoes points to the Manticore who´s hanging by the neck and with an arrow injecting massive amounts of the Slave drug on her system, and begins to glow.
A strange cloaked sillouette materialises in the classroom just below Manticore for a split second.
Saotome, as if guessing what Echoes was about to do to his "loved one", let go a desperate scream and runs toward him to stop him.
Too late.
Echoes turns into light, taking Saotome and Manticore with him.
Boogiepop returns to Naoko and Echoes´old hideout to find that Nagi is alive, the puddle of blood under her turned into sand.
Clearly, Echoes kept himself busy when he was left behind with her corpse.
Boogiepop then leaves Nagi, Kei and Shizu behind and that´s three more people who now know that she´s Toka.

[Cookiepop]

now, "what brought this to be?" is a tough question. my main concern, is that i'm still not certain why Saotome would be running towards Echoes like that.

Either he was trying to stop Echoes destroying the Manticore, or he despaired at the knowledge that he and the Manticore had lost and threw himself into the light as a means of suicide.

The events of the pillar of light are described pretty well by sunset. The way it happens in the film is supposed to be the same way it happens in the anime. Personally, I prefer the way its done in the novel:

Niitoki Kei, Saotome Masami, and Tanaka Shiro have been knocked unconcious and brought to the main hall (I think?) by Kirima Nagi and Echoes, who confirms that all three are not the Manticore. Echoes then helps release the three of them. The class president is not too happy with these events and wonders what the hell is going on, but Saotome tells her its all right. He then starts a discussion with Kirima Nagi about never being satisfied with normal (when he had asked her out, she had said that he was normal and so should stay away from her because she was screwed up), and that he was glad she had rejected him, because if she hadn't he would have been her enemy. Now he said she was nothing but normal to him. Having taken a mechanical pencil out of his pocket, he turns round and stabs Echoes in the neck with it. Saotome finishes by saying "Now you are our enemy" (this is also in a flashback in episode 3), before the Manticore drops down from the ceiling, slashing Echoes from shoulder to stomach. Kirima, distracted by the appearance of the Manticore, see too late the knife which Saotome holds and uses to slash her throat, killing her. Manticore tries to attack Echoes again, but this time he dodges, picked up Kirima's corpse, and jumps out of the building. Saotome tells the Manticore to pursue, while he takes care of Niitoki Kei (Tanaka having run away already). Outside, Echoes finds that the poison injected into him has crippled him. He is slower, and the big wound on his body won't heal. He lays down Kirima's corpse, but the Manticore has caught up to him and startes beating six shades of brown out of him. After a brief tussle and chat between Saotome and Niitoki, Echoes' body lands behind Niitoki, the Manticore having thrown it there. Now dying, Echoes knows there isn't much time left to make his decision. Niitoki tries to shield his body with hers, the Manticore mocking her and Echoes. Echoes stretches out a hand and with the words "My body into information, transmit to the source"! a pillar of light appears from his body, piercing the sky, and expanding outwards towards the Manticore. Saotome however leaps in at the last moment, shielding her body with his, and pushing her out of the way. Saotome is destroyed, and the Manticore badly burned. Heartbroken that Saotome is dead (the only person to love her), she chases after Niitoki Kei, who runs towards the sound of someone whistling "Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg". She trips on a microfilament wire, the Manticore catches up to her, only to have her burned hand detached from her body by Boogiepop's wire, which then proceeds to wrap itself around the Manticore's neck. Immobile, Tanaka Shiro who accompanied Boogiepop fired an arrow into her chest and then into her head, making her body crumble into dust. It is said a look of relief passed across her face when she realized she had lost.

Makes more sense in my opinion. In the movie, as has been said, the Manticore appeared first, which is extremely risky considering Echoes on any ordinary day could annihilate her, as he proceeded to do.

Kuroda, at the centre of the light, contained echoes at that point.

Kuroda wasn't at the centre, it was Echoes.

Echoes, the amalgamation of mankind's thoughts and memoires, is spread across the city when the light rises into the sky.

Echoes isn't an amalgamation of mankind's thoughts and memories. He is a being sent to evaluate mankind, have direct first hand objective experience of humanity and then report back to his origin with his decision. It just so happens that when he arrived on Earth he arrived in a highly evolved form. Manaka on the other hand is an amalgam. When she says she is like Echoes, she means that one day she will become light like him, and that she understand the nature of the universe like him. In both cases, only humanity eluded them.

Scarecrow/Kuroda is the Boogiepop "original" that Phantom refers to in ep8. At the light event, Minako/Manticore could not see Kuroda because of Booogiepop's stangling cord.

The original that Boogiepop Phantom refers to in episode 8 is Boogiepop, not Kuroda. After all it is from Boogiepop and Manticore that it was formed, both of whom it calls originals because it is a composite.

Boogiepop had no memory of its 'own' face, so when the 'hat and cloak' memory (boogiepop) escaped as electromagnetic interferece, and scanned through the Maticore's mind, it still had no idea what face it had/should have. Therefore, it used the memory of the only available face at the time: Minako. It 'got' her face when scanning her brain.

Its never made entirely clear how and why Boogiepop Phantom and Manticore Phantom came into being. It seems that memories exist in the electromagnetic field, and the Manticore, Saotome, and Boogiepop being smack bang in the middle of it their memories had a more profound effect on the electromagnetic field than the memories of others. The Manticore was split in two, one part taking the appearance and personality of Boogiepop but keeping the face of the Manticore, the other half taking Saotome's appearance and keeping the personality of the Manticore.

The Minako/Saotome/Nagi love triangle was being confronted on the roof. Nagi knew Minako was the manticore, so it was a set-up.
Boogiepop had encouraged Echoes to come there too (as in ep8) so at the same time, Boogiepop strangles Minako/manticore and Nagi slashes Echoes face with a knife (this is flashed in ep11). This releases Echoes light by mortally wounding him, the idea being that his light blowing apart the Manticore would be the only way to end things. But, Saotome jumps in front of the light to save Minako by 'taking the bullet'.

But this whole thing backfires, because instead Saotome becomes the Manticore and Manaka inherits some of Echoes power. We know the whole roof incident was pre-planned when in ep10, Boogiepop says 'i should have known that the events of that evening ...' would have these repercussions.

Kirima only found out that Minako was the Manticore when she attacked Echoes. She also doesn't slash Echoes with a knife. The only people to pre-plan the event were Saotome and the Manticore, who laid the trap. However they were defeated in the end. Boogiepop merely remarks that he should have known that Echoes pillar of light would have other repercussions.