who here liked the original ending?/

[FOOL]

I don't know about you all but I found the final episode quite thought provoking and even though it didn't answer all my questions it still answerd my main ones.
I have only seen the first half of the alteritive ending but I prefer the original. It left you questioning the very soul of man kind.
Does anyone else agree??

[Pen2]

I agree. Quite proudly I might add

[ATh]

You can add here another who preffers the TV ending over the movies.

ATh

[Lord Henry]

I like 'em both and consider them on par in importance and in beauty as part of the Eva epic.

They work well together.

There is quite a bit in common with 'my purest heart for you' and the original eps 25-26. The original eps are inspirational and moving.

'What is it for a man to gain the world, but lose his soul?'

[ryezen]

i feel a lot more comfortable with the ending of the original - the ending of the movie seems... incomplete

[Paradox]

Yeah, like everyone else, I prefer the original ending.

[Janus99-NG]

I loved the final episode of Eva, but the movie just had a more large-scale feeling. Even though, leaving some questions unanswered, it basically killed all of the characters except for Shinji and Asuka, and then left them in a world that looked like it had been completely destroyed. And not only that, but it killed the characters off in a way that was kind of good and bad at the same time. They died, but right before they died, they were happy.

The TV ending had a more settling tone to it. Whereas the movie left you questioning what happens to all of those souls? Is Shinji just dreaming or is he and Asuka really the last ones there? It's probable to think that Asuka is there because the Anti-AT field obviously couldn't penatrate the Eva. But then again, why did she not respond when Shinji choked her? Was she just so traumatized by the incident that she couldn't respond with anger anymore? Or was it just that Shinji was dreaming or, dead?

I personally found the movie to be better, but the TV ending is still one of my favorite episodes.


Janus99

[Ko Hakaisha]

Hiya, Janus99! ^^ I thought I'd get the drop on you before Eva2000 did! ;)

[Janus99-NG]

I posted once or twice before, on the old msg board, just needed to reregister.


Janus99

[Ko Hakaisha]

Oh, okay ... [blink] Well, welcome to the new message board! ^^

[BigShot Jordan]

i never saw the last episodes of evangelion because i heard from a bunch of friends that they really suck.iheard that the movies take place after ep.24 so i just saw the movies and i thought the ending was pretty good.the ending in the movie was very thought provoking and kept me thinking and thats what i think hideako anno wanted.superb animetion too.

[Lord Henry]

And you listened to those pastrami heads?!

Anyone who does not like the original finale is missing the soul of Eva, the best part. A soul which also appears in the movies but probably not as extremely.

[fireguy]

Jordan I recommend that you see the last episodes, as I believe they r just as good as the movies.

[Redlotus]

You know, i must say that the most rewarding part about evangelion (besides the plot, and the characters, and etc...) is the bit at the end where it shows how shinji's life would be if he was "normal". I loved that.
Anyone agree with me?

[Yuusuke]

Well, I don't fully agree, but that was definately a great alternative universe type scene.
__________________
"I told ya! Don't smoke when making fireworks!"
Recca, to his 'father'

[kaji]

I personally love the original TV ending...so much thought and emotion packed inside that episode....

And i loved the music as well....when shinji finally succeeded...

[Wolfpac]

The Tv series had the Kiddies (goodie-goodie) ending. The whole "Congratulations" bit was to make us feel good about ourselfs.
The Movie Ending was better for the Evangelion fans. It showed a more fuller ending. It if wasn't for that Dam Confusing Last sceen It would explain everything.
It the Last sceen was'nt so confusing, this board would be empty, and it wouldn't be Evangelion if it wasn't.

[eva2000]

Originally posted by Redlotus
You know, i must say that the most rewarding part about evangelion (besides the plot, and the characters, and etc...) is the bit at the end where it shows how shinji's life would be if he was "normal". I loved that.
Anyone agree with me?

hi redlotus and welcome to my forums :D

[Pen2]

Originally posted by kaji
And i loved the music as well....when shinji finally succeeded...


ah you mean 'Good, or don't be' (the piano version of Cruel Angel Thesis)

another good one in that ep. is 'The Heady Feeling of Freedom' (the violin(?) version)

[kaji]

yeah that one...its so cool

[Pen2]

Originally posted by Wolfpac
The Tv series had the Kiddies (goodie-goodie) ending. The whole "Congratulations" bit was to make us feel good about ourselfs.
The Movie Ending was better for the Evangelion fans. It showed a more fuller ending. It if wasn't for that Dam Confusing Last sceen It would explain everything.
It the Last sceen was'nt so confusing, this board would be empty, and it wouldn't be Evangelion if it wasn't.




::looks for a nicer way to say it:: errm ::fails::

Bull. If anything I see it as the other way around. The Movie was made for the people who couldn't get a hold on the T.V. ending (and like i said before: don't get me wrong, i still love the movie) I say the T.V. ending was better for Evangelion fans (it kept the old Ezboard happy for a while until....skip it) and the Movie was just another representation of it. I see a lot of parallels between the End of End of (heh) and the end of ep. 26. I take them both to portray Shinji's reaction to the Third Impact. Of course that's just my opinion and I think you've heard enough of it for today....

[Wolfpac]

When did Shinji get the Guts to Love himself.
The Movies a better portrail of Shinji

[Yuusuke]

Well, I'll agree with Pen2 (if I haven't yet). I remember hearing that the movies were made solely because some fans didn't get the end of the tv series and wanted more action to it, and that Anno killed off the characters the way he did to say a kind of 'f*ck you' to the people who didn't like how he had felt about the series. (Anyone know if that's true, as it would. . .)
__________________
"Do I have one? I will say my emotiones were set aside for someone. To complete my sister's revenge."
Mikagami Tokiya

[Wolfpac]

Yes but in the Last episoids you see Misato and Ritsuko dead on the floor for a second. So the Movie must have been in the works.
If You don't belive me, got to the Video shop, find the last Eva Video (0:13) and look at the back cover. Misato and Ritsuko are dead.

[Pen2]

Yes i know I happen to own 0:13. Maybe to movies were intentionally wriiten in order to portray those two scenes hmm?

[kaji]

maybe when the girls died it was just in shinji's mind?

[Paradox]

Also in the last episode, you see a quick peek of Unit 02 hunched over in the bottom of the lake, which also happens in the movie. Anno must have been planning the movie at the same time as the series maybe.

[FOOL]

The way I see it they were both just two different ways of ending the same story. Either Shinji accepts the way things are and lets the false evolution happen or he doesn't. In the movie Rei betrays Gendo and gives Shinji the Choice and in the eppisode and as a sorta sum it up read the back of the video case of 0:13
"He who overcomes will be dressed in white, and I will not take his name from the book of life; and I will give witness to his name and before my father, and before his angels."
-Revelation 3:5
Acceptance, Denile it's all there thats why I recon both the movie and the eppisodes stand in their own right.

If you can sorta understand my dribble you'll get the jist.

[Wolfpac]

Maybe the Movies are just a relatity of Shinji's mind.
Maybe the Movies aren't ment to be another ending, but a continuation of the series. (just before he learns to love himself.)

[FOOL]

Maybe.......

[Pen2]

a lot of maybes. I still go with my view, but the only way to prove that (bar GAINAX and the RCB) would be to ask Anno, and he'd most probably move on to say it's not his problem. heh heh

[KEEL]

You people might want to read the production notes, and commetry in the "official" red cross booklet @ eva200.com.

It says that the stuff in the movie episodes were supposed to aired on TV as the ending, which is why we saw similar scenes (dead bodies and stuff) in both. Due to production problems they used the ending we saw on TV.

Though this ending satisfied the themes of eva, many fans thought it was incomplete because it didn't show what happened in the physical world of eva, but rather what happened in the mental world. So they were forced to remake it again.

So it is in some ways a crowd pleaser for those who didn't appreciate what happened in the minds of the characters, and it did its job pretty well :D. Except for a video or DVD release in Australia, which forced me to watch it with vivo quality :(.

I think both endings are good, since together they satisfy what happened physically and emotionally.

[Pen2]

but the validity of the RCB has been doubted, because it is a work of GAINAX, not Anno himself.

[ryezen]

hey, dats a new one! werd u get dat info? :)

[Pen2]

huh? me? Can't remember now, I think it says somewhere in the book itself that it's by GAINAX, and It came up at the old board a while back. We never did work out whether or not it was valid though....

[KEEL]

I agree with Pen2 about the RCB. That's why when I write "official" it's in quotation marks. It's a good refrence though and does help clear some things up.

[ryezen]

but Anno works for Gainax does he not? and couldnt it be possible that someone at Gainax was asked to interview Anno about those terms? - but then again thats just speculation now is it!

[Janus99-NG]

Well I don't think that they just hired some nobody at GAINAX to make stuff up about the Eva series and put it in a booklet... :)


Janus99

[ryezen]

so exactly how "authentic" is the RCB?

[Pen2]

No idea. There just used to be a sort of agreement at the old board that the RCB couldn't be tendered as irrefutable evidence, you had to find eveidence from the series itself. That stuffed me up good for a while.

[ryezen]

ok, now i know how you feel!

[Wolfpac]

It may not be totally real, but at least it answered alot of our questions
(apart from how old Pen Pen is)

[ryezen]

well a paridigm shift is something which doesnt happen overnight.

i used to think that the info contained in the RCB was the official word from Gainax, hence Anno. but now, i'll have to become less legalistic about what is contined in it.

[Access]

I came here with the full intentions of having a good old fashion rant about the movies... but have changed my mind to ranting about the RCB!!!!

The RCB is wrong on numerous occastion.... Anno has stated "IF you dont understand it, (EVA) its not my problem" He wrote it he directed it. However Gainix just drew it and represent it...etc. They dont know whats happening. Of course they do have inside information such as what happend to Tokyo-1 and 2. But in many areas the RCB is written by someones oppion at GAinix... its is NOT a bible.... it is an oppion so must be respected... it just annoys me so when someone uses the RCB as evidence.... GRRRHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Thats it.... now did I like EoE.... I will admit that 3rd Impact presented in the EoE is much more complecated than anything else shown in EVA. Anno never intended to release the movies, or even create them. I think that when he created the EVA episodes he intended to end it.... LEAVE a GIANT gap then just go straight into the deliema Shinji faced. Fans who understood EVA only at a basic physical level, Anno intended to mock by giving them an ending that wouldnt satisfy them. However for those people who understood EVA at the level it was intened realised that EVA was a way of presenting human emotions and activities. Ep 25 and 26 accomplished this. Only the people who understood EVA at this level were satisifed they realised that reality based questions such as who is the first angel and what happend during 3rd impact were irrelevant. I think Anno intended that all along, he was a bastard and new that only the smarter side of the audience would actually love EVA as it is. The movies were then created to satisfy the people who only understood EVA at the primitive literal and reality based sense. It has been quoted by Anno that he made up the sequences in EoE as he went along.

However for the people who LOVE EVA in the literal sense were amazed at the level of metaphors and references to other things that appeared during instrementality. These things although not that important is actually what EOE was written for... so they cannot be forgotten.

EoE is the more tangible ending... it is I belive for the superficial fans... The movies point was to try and allow more than just intelligencia of the community appreciate EVA... it allowed people to understand in a more physical manner showing events as they happen. I will tell you a story.... when I first watched EVA ep 25 and 26 I was confused... I knew it was important but didnt know why.. in the cover of the vid it talked about the actual plan of instrumentality... Thats is the ONLY reason I knew what they were talking about in the last eps. However veiweing the movie someone would not have to be told, it is VERY obvious. So it was a simpler... version involving the reality side of EVA... but not a basic one... answers were not given... more light was shone upon EVA.... that is all.

Well I see any inconsistencies between the series and the movies. I would consider they complement each other. 3rd Impact is a difficult thing to describe and I don't think Anno could possible describe what he felt but he did a very good effort in eps 25 and 26. He left a giant gap of history as to what happened. Anno left clues in the last eps such as Asuka in a foetal position in Unit-02 underwater... Misato shot lying on the ground and Ritsuko shot in the back laying in LCL. So I see no reason to think there are inconsistencies. The movies were planned to be bigger, more flasher, and more action, with a larger budget. That is fine, but EoE is nothing without eps 25 and 26 to back it up. I accept the episodes and EoE as one package I see no reason to see one ending superseding another... for they are one and the same ending.

In the episodes Shinji describes himself fading as 3rd Impact takes place... so instrumentality definitely occurred in the series. The only time that Shinji ever actually experience instrumentality in the movies was when the image of him merged with Rei... with her on top of him. He expressed how he felt the presence of everyone, but knew it to be wrong. This I believe is where the series fits into the movie. The series aim was to express 3rd Impact in as much detail as possible while EoE was based around the events that took place around 3rd impact. The only thing Shinji experiences of 3rd impact in the movie WAS that scene with Rei and him merged. All those metaphysical scenes were of him making the decision of whether mankind should evolve... while the episodes were focusing on instrumentality itself. However their are definitely links between the two.

In the series when the statement posed to Shinji is that this is the world were he decides mankind's fate... it was expressing what would happen if mankind did evolve... he expressed that he didn't want the world were everyone died and 3rd impact is very closely related to death.

"Birth is the Beginning of Death,
Death is the Continuation of Reality,
And Rebirth is the end of a dream,
Reality is a suffering,
If my heart comes to an understanding, it will destroy me"

Eventually by the end of the series Shinji understood that he could live on without the merger of everyone. He admitted to getting his satisfaction in life from the appreciation of others, especially Gendou. However he believed that he only got respect as an EVA pilot. Upon the realisation that he could exist without being an EVA pilot, in a world with pain he expressed his true inner strength. He resisted temptation of instrumentality ending all his pain and suffering. He felt it to be wrong and came to the conclusion that he could live with himself even if he didn't love himself. But in the real world he could always change and develop because the way we perceive reality is always changing. Shinji made the ultimate decision that evolution of man into one being was not what was the 'right' thing to do. The word instrumentality means alone while the word complementation, which also is used to express, 3rd Impact means to fill each other up with many. These are two conflicting words. However this expresses 3rd Impact perfectly. Shinji knew that it was lonely and isolated even though mankind had complemented his own mind.

I will admit that it would seem that the series did end on a lighter and happier note than the movies did. EoE was definitely darker. But I would not call it a sad ending. I rather see that EoE ended with the sign of renewed life... of hope... of a new beginning. Yes, the world may have evolved or it may have returned to how it was. But if mankind evolved and Shinji and Asuka are left on Earth it shows a sign of new life. In the bible story Noah's Ark the world's population became eradicated by a giant flood. When Noah and his wife reached the 'new land' in the bible it was not a sad story, its one full of promise and hope of a fresh start. If mankind returns to how it was it still is not a sad ending.... in time all will be well. Either way it is not a sad ending.

I don't think that the movies or the series describe 3rd Impact as 'heaven'... yet it certainly could be argued it is bliss. A world without pain or suffering in the movie Shinji is overwhelmed by the temptation of 3rd Impact but... he just realises to himself that this is a world without pain and suffering but is also deprived of love and happiness. This realisation that 3rd impact is not what he believes mankind should have is expressed in the series. This is where the series fits in. Yes, definitely the series had time to express many issues while the movies only brought up the fact there would be no love. However this is not an inconsistency. As I said early the series and the movies complement each other. And at analysing EVA at this depth that connection between the two is even more visible.

[ryezen]

quite a reflection/reaction...

my salutes! :D

[KEEL]

WOW, great insight on the movies. Thanks for :confused: :smash: me, and clearing some things up on the RCB and movies. As I said before, I agree that the RCB isn't totally correct. Until you came though, the RCB was the best thing to refer to regarding info on the intensions of the movies. :D

[Pen²]

very interesting...gave me something to think about...

just how long did it take you to type that up???

[Pen2]

heh heh heh heh. Access strikes again! :lol:

[Pen2]

Originally posted by KEEL
Until you came though, the RCB was the best thing to refer to regarding info on the intensions of the movies. :D

Uhhh.....no it wasn't. You just weren't around for the time we went over this the first time. It was a little more....heated that time. Capt. Jake"I wipe my ass with the RCB...." and so on ;)

[Access]

"just how long did it take you to type that up???"

Hehe, most of my important post tend to be lengthy, but writing about EVA is fun... I enjoy it, it allows me to organise my own thoughts in my head. By expressing our oppions openly it allows us to understand loop holes in our knowledge and also enables us t oappreciate EVA on a considerably higher level.

Capt. Jake "I wipe my ass with the RCB...." hehehe.... well it wont be long before the Cap is working the boards again. He was going a way for a few weeks for holidays... he will be back soon. Then feel his rath.... lol

[Access]

Cool.... someone here cant rememeber who, in this thread said the perfect summary of the RCB I have ever seen!

"....they just hired some nobody at GAINAX to make stuff up about the Eva series and put it in a booklet..."

Perfect.

[KEEL]

hehe, after going through some of the archived threads, I think I look forward to Captain Jake's return. :D

[Pen2]

not even in jest KEEL.......

[Keroppilee]

i didn't see the original ending yet, i actually saw eoe before it. so i dunno what to think yet, from my limited stand point, eoe is kinda hard to figure out, but apparently not as much as the ep 25 and 26

[Access]

What?!

March your butt to the nearest video store or friend where you can borrow Genesis 1:3 OR search the net for it NOW!!!

And bite you tongue for watch EoE first... dont you have any patience....

[Lord Henry]

Redlotus-'You know, i must say that the most rewarding part about evangelion (besides the plot, and the characters, and etc...) is the bit at the end
where it shows how shinji's life would be if he was "normal". I loved that.'

I've gotta say that that bit freaked the Schutzenfest out of me. The 1st time I saw the final eps I was on the edge of my seat in a state of tension waiting for the view to go outside of the mind and for some mega ---- to happen.

Then, suddenly Shinji is awoken by Asuka!!! He has loving parents!!! Rei is a normal kid!! Misato is teaching!!

1 oddity after another. What a freaky alternate reality!! How things could be!!

As usual Access has many good points. 3rd impact and the merging of souls is definately a tricky one to convey.
On the RCB, I take it as someones response to Eva. That is, it is not superior to any other persons response, except perhaps the creator. But even then, who gets the final say on how we view Eva? Not Anno, but ourselves.

And boy, does this quote rule: "Birth is the Beginning of Death, Death is the Continuation of Reality,
And Rebirth is the end of a dream,
Reality is a suffering, If my heart comes to an understanding, it will destroy me"

The End is not as dark as I was lead to believe before seeing the films. Not only does Yui get her wish but it seems the people will come back again.

On Captain Jake-his difinitive views brought about my 1st post on ezboard. Remember his defence of his far-fetched version of the plug suit blooper? Those were the days :D

[Pen2]

Oh I remember it..... I was there. heh heh

[Access]

Dude... thanks for the kind remarks but dont think your gonna use that for your signature..........well you can if you MUST... but I will to eventually.. when I get sick of my quote from Pi.

Also when I die that quotes going on my grave....

No joke I have told mum that...

[Edited by Access on 17-07-2000 at 09:40 PM]