View Full Version : What did Gendo mean?
fireguy
13-07-00, 01:06 AM
When Asuka is fighting if I remember correctly the 16th angel the one in space. When it starts to invade Asukas mind Gendo gets Rei in Unit to help. What I want to know is I think occurs around this sequence of events. What does Gendo mean when he says "We cannot afford to lose Unit-02 at this stage"? I think that is close to what he said.
Ahh good question and probably deserves a long answer pitty I don't have time to write one. But it goes along the lines of
Selle have writen what is going to happen after seeing the dead see scrolls and everything has to follow there plans. Though Gendo is just using this as an excuse to fullfill his own plan.
The best I could do sorry..
Paradox
13-07-00, 04:48 AM
That's a fairly good question.
Maybe its because he knew that the Eva05 series was near completion, and that was really beginning to annoy Seele, so that if they ever attacked (which they do), he'd have more Eva units for defense.
Well if you remember ep 24, when Karou is descending, Gendo and Fuytski are talking and it seems Karou has the option of initiating 3rd impact or merging with 02.
I guess we can only assume that SEELE'e dead sea scrolls had made it clear that at that point in time 02 was valuable. Of course Asuka was not, but i often think Asuka was never considered valuble by Gendo.
MagmaDiver is a good ep. It was unsure if it was possilbe to destroy the angel. Now the Eva would easily servive the heat, but the piolt might not. So rather than sending Shinji or Rei. They took the chance with Asuka, she was always expendable.
ATh
yeah, if you really pay attention to Gendou's decisions, he is either concerned with Rei or unit 01 (im not really sure with Shinji though) Asuka (including Touji, unit 03 & 04) is just like an extra thrown in as bait - and to make sure that the important parts of his (Gendou's) plan go on as scheduled. Remember, the ep where the third branch along with eva 04 disappeared? Gendou tells Fuyutsuki that Unit 01 is sufficient to fulfill thier plans (dont remember the exact wording)
Well the angels yes were here to test mankind to see if it was ready to evolve. Adam and Lillith merged together as a perfect being crashed 135 million years ago in 1st Impact and wiped out the dinosuars. They seperated and Adam went to the white moon which is antartica, and Lillith went to the black moon / Geofront / egg of lillith. Eventually Lillith spawned the Lilum and Adam spawned the Angels.
Orginal Plan in Dead Sea Scrolls;
The actual orginal plan simple. Beat each challenmge that was posed to the Lillum as discibed in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The angels had a simple goal just to return Adam.. while the lillims was to return to Lillith. Keel and Gendou both knew that mankind was not ready to pass each test. They knew that mankind could not beat the 18 beings posed to them in the Dead Sea Scolls. So during accomplish their 2nd test (2nd Impact)... they captured Adam... and cloned him to create EVA. This was mankinds savior, Gendou was planning to use the Angels power against them. Keel also had a side plan and created Unit-01 from Lilliths cells.
Seele intened to;
Bring about third impact by using an angel to touch Lillith and place Unit-01 in the centre. However Unit-01 alone is not enough he had to become so powerful he could be used. This was doen by keel by placing him in the centre of a Man made siphrothrica. The Kabbalah siphrotrica is a tree to the spirtual world or human perfection. Each siphroth (little circle) contains one aspect or attibute of man. When Unit-01 was placed in the centre of a System Siphrica it immediely received all the gifts.. and could be used to merge with Lilith and the Angel to open the room of Guf. The only reason Unit01 was used was because it was made of Lilliths cells and it was the only being which can withstand an Anti-at field shoved in its face. the system Siphrica was generated by producing the Largest manmade anti atfield ever... by sticking Cloned lance in the cores of all the EVAs... each one representing a single siphroth or attibute of the Kabbalah tree of life. After this was done... Keel then intending to use the Red Earth ceremony to reserect the Black moon and make Keel the being who desides if mankind should evolve or not. He would be the centre being everybody merges with. Seele tried to fool all the Angels into mergeing with Lillith by fooling them all that Lillith was Adam... this would speed up instrumentality ahead of the dead sea scrolls scheduale.
Gendou intended to;
Gendou planned to merge Adam and Lillith together forming just like in Seele's senario except Gendou didnt want to use Unit-01, he created Rei to merge with Adam and Lillith... since she is also composed of Lillith's cells so can withstand an Anti at field. Gendou intended to merge with Rei and become the centre being which everybody merged with. This would allow him to also be the being which decided if mankind should evolve. However When Shinji was being assaulted by the EVA series and captured... Rei III decided to not go with what Gendou had proposed. Rei III broke Gendou classes... while the previous one imbrassed everything he had to say. By some mystical maternal bond between Shinji and Rei.. she felt compelled to help her son.... even though neither of them knew it, but it did not matter. This disrupted Gendou's plans and her intervention stuffed up Keels as well.
It was all an elaborate plan..... the creation of the EVA's was not in the Dead sea Scrolls. Keel and Gendou both new that mankind was not ready to face the 18 challenges posed. So they turned the power of the angels upon themselves. They captured Adam, cloned him used it to cheat instruimentality. The creation of the EVA is not a goddly thing, thats why the EVA's are associated with demons. As god says in the bible that God is the only being that has the will and right to create new forms of life.
I just need some things cleared up. So to start the third impact, you needed to create a perfect godlike thing being with a human soul right?
Also how exactly did Rei give Shinji the responsibility of mankind's future.
asuka_131
26-07-00, 09:39 AM
well, instead of leading gendou to lilith, rei led shinji to him so that shinji could make the decision of letting the 3rd impact occur or not.
"I just need some things cleared up. So to start the third impact, you needed to create a perfect godlike thing being with a human soul right?"
Dont forget this is only my oppion, I am trying to set out a plasible plan of what happend, based on facts and oppions. Technically they didnt create a godlike being, you had to return Adam to Lillith, to make them whole again. Human soul? No a person had to be given the role as the centre being, they would govern mans fate and be the being who decides if instrementality occurs and if it does they are also the being everybody merges with.
"Also how exactly did Rei give Shinji the responsibility of mankind's future."
asuka_131 said it more breifly, consisely, and clearer than I could of.
Now all this is just speculation and my oppion changes all the time, I am actually while typeing this getting an idea.....
“Orginal Plan in Dead Sea Scrolls;
The actual orginal plan simple. Beat each challenmge that was posed to the Lillum as discibed in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The angels had a simple goal just to return Adam.. while the lillims was to return to Lillith. Keel and Gendou both knew that mankind was not ready to pass each test. They knew that mankind could not beat the 18 beings posed to them in the Dead Sea Scolls. So during accomplish their 2nd test (2nd Impact)... they captured Adam... and cloned him to create EVA. This was mankinds savior, Gendou was planning to use the Angels power against them. Keel also had a side plan and created Unit-01 from Lilliths cells.
Seele intened to;
Bring about third impact by using an angel to touch Lillith and place Unit-01 in the centre.
Gendou intended to;
Gendou planned to merge Adam and Lillith together forming just like in Seele's senario except Gendou didnt want to use Unit-01, he created Rei to merge with Adam and Lillith...”
>>> I thought it was the other way around, Gendou wanted a “human factor” to decide the outcome of third impact and that is why he proposed the instrumentality of men. Seele’s original plan was to let an angel, and that was Kaworu, to merge with Lilith, start third impact and decide the fate of humanity – it didn’t matter whether humanity would be eliminated since humanity, according to Seele have become a bunch of useless beings. Seele was somehow convinced of Gendou’s plans and that is why project-e, gehirn, NERV, etc. came into being.
>>>didn’t want to use unit01? Then why did he get rid of the lance of longiness in the first place? Remember, the original lance was needed so that lilith could be used but bec. The lance was unretrievable, Seele used unit 01. Also, Gendou planned to use unit 01 bec. He wanted to merge with Yui who was in unit 01 – I think that Adam and lilith were necessary for third impact to occur – rei was just a tool which gendou thought he could control
“It was all an elaborate plan..... the creation of the EVA's was not in the Dead sea Scrolls. Keel and Gendou both new that mankind was not ready to face the 18 challenges posed. So they turned the power of the angels upon themselves. They captured Adam, cloned him used it to cheat instruimentality. The creation of the EVA is not a goddly thing, thats why the EVA's are associated with demons. As god says in the bible that God is the only being that has the will and right to create new forms of life.”
>>>hey, I thought you said that we cant quote from the bible – or did this line appear in the series?
"Technically they didnt create a godlike being, you had to return Adam to Lillith, to make them whole again. "
>>>true
"Human soul? No a person had to be given the role as the centre being, they would govern mans fate and be the being who decides if instrementality occurs and if it does they are also the being everybody merges with."
>>> let me just add...this was Gendou's plan so as to ensure the survival of the human race after third impact. since putting the task upon an angel is uncertainty. Remember, Seele sent Kaworu to merge with lilith so as to start the third impact and decide whether mankind was worthy of taking the next step....
"Seele’s original plan was to let an angel, and that was Kaworu, to merge with Lilith, start third impact and decide the fate of humanity – it didn’t matter whether humanity would be eliminated since humanity, according to Seele have become a bunch of useless beings."
No I believe Seele only used Kaoru to start 3rd Impact not to be the centre being who decides the fate of mankind. After Kaoru's death, Seele's plan didnt seemed hampered, I would suggest that Keel would then use the Red Earth Purefication ceremony to place himself in the centre.
" Seele was somehow convinced of Gendou’s plans and that is why project-e, gehirn, NERV, etc. came into being."
I dont really think it was Gendou's plan, I would more suggest it was Keel, Keel has had the scrolls for hundreds of years, Keel thought Gendou was a person who he could manipulate to get what Seele wanted, however Gendou double crossed him.
">>>didn’t want to use unit01? Then why did he get rid of the lance of longiness in the first place?"
Why because Nevr had no choice their was no other way of destorying the Angel.
"Remember, the original lance was needed so that lilith could be used"
Why?
">>>hey, I thought you said that we cant quote from the bible – or did this line appear in the series?"
I was only using it as some extra data to support my case, not even that to show that the concept is logical. I wasnt using it as undeniable proof.
"Human soul? No a person had to be given the role as the centre being, they would govern mans fate and be the being who decides if instrementality occurs and if it does they are also the being everybody merges with."
Wasn't Unit-01 equal to God after it was placed in the man made siphrothrica and was transformed to the tree of life? And how would joining this or Adam with Lilith technically cause the third impact? It seems to me humans needed to create a god or use one (Adam was created in God's image), to join with lilith to start the third impact.
No I believe Seele only used Kaoru to start 3rd Impact not to be the centre being who decides the fate of mankind. After Kaoru's death, Seele's plan didnt seemed hampered, I would suggest that Keel would then use the Red Earth Purefication ceremony to place himself in the centre.
>>>then how should you consider this:
SEELE 01: That is why we now entrust our hope to you.
Later on, Kaworu takes control of unit 02 and after it is defeated by Shinji he says:
Kaworu (smiling): Thank you, Shinji. I hoped you would stop EVA-02. Otherwise, I might have gone on living with her.
Form the first line, we can see that Seele was indeed entrusting Kaworu to get the job done. The second line raises the question of unit 02’s purpose... but this will need some work though...
so how exactly would Keel be the center being? he had to be in the scene of third impact to do it. also Seele's prayer says:
All (chanting): Evangelion Unit 01's pilot... Complement humankind with your imperfect ego.
Now if Seele believed that the lilin have become a race of useless beings and thus should be eliminated, why in the first place would they want humanity to evolve?
“I dont really think it was Gendou's plan, I would more suggest it was Keel, Keel has had the scrolls for hundreds of years, Keel thought Gendou was a person who he could manipulate to get what Seele wanted, however Gendou double crossed him. “
>>>It seems that you are associating Keel with the wondering jew, but where is the evidence to support that? just bec. he is half cybernetic doesnt mean that he is that old.
"Why because Nevr had no choice their was no other way of destorying the Angel"
Kouzou : Ikari, I think it is too early to use that.
Gendou : The committee has started the mass production of the Eva series. This is a chance, Fuyutsuki.
Kouzou : But, I cannot...
Gendou : We cannot make the clock move backwards. But, we can make it move forward with our own hands.
--
Kouzou : The Old Men will not allow it.
Gendou : We must put an end to everything before SEELE takes action. It's not a good idea to lose Unit-2 right now.
Kouzou : But. if we use the Lancea Longini without the permission of SEELE, that will be many problems.
Gendou : If a reason exists, that is enough. I don't see anything else to consider.
Kouzou : Reason ? What you really want is an excuse.
ep 21 (fuyutski talking w/Seele)
Seele 07: We have no intention of creating a new god. We hope for your cooperation, Prof. Fuyutsuki
(EoE - lance returns) Fuyutsuki: No!... Not the Lance of Longinus!?
SEELE 01: At long last our hopes are to be realized.
SEELE 04: The original Lance of Longinus has returned as well.
>>>Fuyutski and Gendou work on the same plan - the instrumentality of men w/ man as the center being. Seele's plan was instrumentality or not as long as third impact occured.
"Remember, the original lance was needed so that lilith could be used"
Why?
>>> ok, so i cant think of any, though it is raised quite well in the series... no doubt i'll come up with a reason and ill post it...
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