Why the @*&# Gundam?

[heart havok]

okay, you are all Gundam lovers, and i understand and respect that. i am not coming here to flame you, for you are more than rightful to support your opinion. I am simply here to ask one simple question, and state why i do not fathom the answers i've heard to date. this simple question is.................


Why the ---- Gundam!?!?!?!?

i have seen the earlier ones and they were {and ARE} boring. i have seen the new ones, and they are ten times worse^^ Why do i feel this way? because the character design is horrible, the story isn't one, the plot is lacking any kind of beats or twists, the action sucks, i am ashamed to admit that Amano draws those piece of ---- hair-styles, the Mechs ARE UNfuckinORIGINAL as ----, and worse of all... these guys are ------' panseys! Why them?


i see all these girls all head over heels over Duo Maxwell and Heero Yuui and that's just as bad as these guys who are all obsessed with Agent Aiko. It's cheep "fan-service" is all it is. the only difference is that Agent Aiko is a bunch of uplifted skirts, and Gundam is a bunch of guys all trying to be "heeros" {if you'll excuse the pun}. all the creators are doing is taking a Cheeze-Whiz story, and adding some emotionless bastards into it. Oh and of course they add some giant transformers covered in ornaments because SURE, of course there aren't enough mechs in anime already.

honestly, i don't mean to be downing your anime of choice so much, but i would REALLY like to know what it is that you see in Gundam. my Xroom-mate watched it every day... i didn't see anything great about it then, and i don't now.

so... i've a deal to make with all of you.^^

{here's the deal}
i am going to come back here often, and read up not only on the replies to this post, but i am going to keep checking in on the other random posts. and if i can start seeing some intellectual replies to this thread and some threads rather than "Silly Quatre" and "Are the Gundam boys gay?" {note, i just picked randome titles}....

if you can do that, and prove to me that Gundam is more than just a bunch of Muscle in Mechs with a cheep story that is made to swoon girls then you win, and i will never speak bad of Gundam again.

if you cannot, then i will simply continue my life as is. and so will you. eitherway, you don't lose anything. this is simply a small benefit all Gundam fans will recieve if you can intellectually back up your right of opinion with right of reason.

thank you all for your time, and no matter what the outcome, remember, i DO respect you for your opinion. i am just trying to open my mind to it as well. adieu^^

[SSJfemme]

Well, let me first start off by saying...DAMN IT THAT WAS LONG!! Okies, anyways...the issue on fan - service. *sighs* Think about it Havok hon, every anime ever created...in ANY shape, way, or form, has emitted some sort of fan - service, correct...? Yes...correct...its just that this time its aimed at the females of anime otakus!!

Now, onto the animation quality...I really can't talk about this as much. I consider myself a little bit of a newbie to the world of anime, but I happen to think the animation of Gundam, is very well thought out. As compared to animes such as DBZ, Sailor Moon, Tenchi Muyo...you know...those...(NEVER SEEN EVA...heh...this is why I consider myself...a newbie...) I think the quality is greater...and I like Duo's hair...by the way...eaten any Duo lately Havok...?

Okies...now out of all seriousness...the plot I think is interesting. WHY?!?!? Well, it very well depicts Japanese culture when it comes to war and fighting. Think of the samurai...cowardice was unacceptable...and this is still a priciple recognized in modern day Japan militarism. Also, I think there ARE twists. Take into account when Heero accidentally killed *thinks of name* OH CRAP!! Forget his name...er...alright alright...the um, the guy wanted peace. This is still when The Earth's Spehere Alliance was still around. There was this old man (Do i feel dumb) and he of course wished for peace. I believe he was from the Earth's Spehere Alliance. Anyways, he was havein a conference with Tres about, well, ending the war. Then, the Gundams attack this conference and Tres orders to get the peacemakers out of there. He puts the Earth's Fear Alliance on an OZ plane...Heero thinks Tres is on there, so he destroys it, and there goes their chance for peace. I didn't think Heero was gonna do that. I also didn't think Tres would be that devious either. This situation also built up the characters...well...er...character...

The Gundam boys aren't pansies at all either!! I don't see ou piloting a huge Mech in space...OR on Earth. Are you killing hundreds of people almost emotionlessly. Are YOU blowing up large bases of armaments, even though you are aware of the fact your life is at stake...I didn't think so...

There, I think that covers all the aspects you've mentioned...t'was fun!! TTFN!! :)

[Kytanna]

I know why that...^&*%*#$@#% doesn't like GW. He wants to run away from real life. The way it is in GW is like real life, the way they change b/c of whats happeneing around them. Thats all around us and he just wants to go in his own lil la la land. So you don't like GW do we really care? Go to your own forum and leave us people alone. ( the people that aren't trying to run away from real life)

[firepicalo826]

gundam wing is a great aname the original gundams were... ehhh ok
the gw gundams wre great (i love the wing0)
the endless walts gundams are incredible they are so well drawn and they move like angels dancing in moonlite...
they just rule if anyone says otherwise their just weird and i love the gundam wing0 custom im going to get the model as soon as i get mor money.

[heart havok]

Originally posted by SSJfemme
Well, let me first start off by saying...DAMN IT THAT WAS LONG!!

thanks^^ that length only took me about half an hour^^




Originally posted by SSJfemme
Okies, anyways...the issue on fan - service. *sighs* Think about it Havok hon, every anime ever created...in ANY shape, way, or form, has emitted some sort of fan - service, correct...? Yes...

no, sorry. that's not good enough for me. i can name MANY anime without "fan-service"... in fact, i will ONLY name the anime that i feel is of exceptional quality that don't have "fan-service".
Soujo Kakumei Utena {that i remember}
Mononoke Hime
Serial Experiments LAIN {has her naked -only in the ending- yet they are very mature about covering her preaddolescent body}
Cowboy Bebop {so far of what i've seen}
Perfect Blue {that i remember}
Akira {can be argued because of the one scene with the Clowns attacking Kaori and Tetsuo}
Nausicaa the valey of the winds {that i recall}
Robot Carnival {the best anime in the entire world!}
urotsukidoji {technically! no fan-service, what-so-ever! they go all out right in your face action^^ okay, yeah, i was adding a but of humour into this thread}
i think that is enough JUST off the top of my head^^



Originally posted by SSJfemme
correct...

not correct. see the above.


Originally posted by SSJfemme
its just that this time its aimed at the females of anime otakus!!

No, i can name a few that are aimed towards females right here.

FuusikiYuusi {whatever it's called}
Escaflowne
Soujo Kakemei Utena
there's three for the time be, if that is not enough, then i'll do more research.



Originally posted by SSJfemme
Now, onto the animation quality...

first of all, the worst thing about the animation quality for me is that my favourite Japanese artist, Yoshitaki Amano draws for Gundam... that is a rather discrace to me because the GW animation is nothing compared to his own style of art. They lessed Amano.


Originally posted by SSJfemme
I really can't talk about this as much. I consider myself a little bit of a newbie to the world of anime, but I happen to think the animation of Gundam, is very well thought out. As compared to animes such as DBZ, Sailor Moon, Tenchi Muyo...you know...those...(NEVER SEEN EVA...heh...this is why I consider myself...a newbie...)

with the GREAT exception of Tenchi Muyo, now i can clearly see why it is that you think GW's animation is so great. because DBZ and SM are 10 times worse when it comes to animation. if you want good animation, then you need to see Eva, Cowboy Bebop, Mononoke Hime, Utena, Lain, Key The Medal Idol, etcetra, etcetra.


Originally posted by SSJfemme
I think the quality is greater...and I like Duo's hair...by the way...eaten any Duo lately Havok...?

a "pet peve" of mine is hair that looks like it was cut out of cardboard. -_-


Originally posted by SSJfemme
Okies...now out of all seriousness...the plot I think is interesting. WHY?!?!? Well, it very well depicts Japanese culture when it comes to war and fighting. Think of the samurai...cowardice was unacceptable...and this is still a priciple recognized in modern day Japan militarism.

i see the relation, and this, i never noticed.^^ however, you can look into Mononoke Hime if you're interested in "the way of the Samuyrai." Ninja Scroll also, {at a more adult level} and from what i've HEARD, you should also look into Rurouni Kenshin. if you want more, just ask.


Originally posted by SSJfemme
Also, I think there ARE twists. Take into account when Heero accidentally killed *thinks of name* OH CRAP!! Forget his name...er...alright alright...the um, the guy wanted peace. This is still when The Earth's Spehere Alliance was still around. There was this old man (Do i feel dumb) and he of course wished for peace. I believe he was from the Earth's Spehere Alliance. Anyways, he was havein a conference with Tres about, well, ending the war. Then, the Gundams attack this conference and Tres orders to get the peacemakers out of there. He puts the Earth's Fear Alliance on an OZ plane...Heero thinks Tres is on there, so he destroys it, and there goes their chance for peace. I didn't think Heero was gonna do that. I also didn't think Tres would be that devious either. This situation also built up the characters...well...er...character...

that is not a plot twist, that is simply titled "drama." {by actual definition}

if you want drama, try realizing that your protagonist wasn't alive the entire time you were wathcing. or try finding that what you thought was reality was merely the protagonist in a film. or how would you feel if they KILL OFF your main character right infront of you in the middle of the series?

if you want Plot Twists, then you can look forward to a "normal school girl" suddenly anime turning into dramatic search into the past of memories questioning reality. or you can look forward to a "normal bounty hunters" animd to turning into a question of life. or even the question of the strength of the subconscious mind over the conscious. the questioning of live within "the wired" or even the questioning of whether or not you are actually alive watching that anime!

::glare:: could you imagine what those would feel like? much more intense on the mind as opposed to "oh, my emotionless 'hero' is going to die, oh no. okay he didn't."


Originally posted by SSJfemme
The Gundam boys aren't pansies at all either!! I don't see ou piloting a huge Mech in space...OR on Earth. Are you killing hundreds of people almost emotionlessly. Are YOU blowing up large bases of armaments, even though you are aware of the fact your life is at stake...I didn't think so...

pansies? indeed they are. these guys are weaker than shinji. why? because they can't even deal with emotion. nor even the thought of dealing with life. yeah, maybe shinji from Eva runs away from his pain, but these guys just block it all out. if you ask me, shinji is 100xstronger for at least trying. they are apathetic bastards and nothing more. it takes a real man to face emotions and troubles. any weakling can block them out.

comparing the GW guys to ME would be like comparing Arnold Schwartzinegar {O.O -sp?} to brad pitt. {not that i'm as good looking as brad pitt}

besides, there are many other, betterlooking guys out there in anime... like "Dark Schneider," "Spike," "Jet," "Ein," "Toujo" {if i have the name correctly} and all those handsome boys in Utena, "Parn" from Lodoss War, the male protagonist in "Key," "Tenchi," etcetra. {again, if you want more, i will list them}


Originally posted by SSJfemme
There, I think that covers all the aspects you've mentioned...t'was fun!! TTFN!! :)

no, you missed the most important one......

Gundam is UNfuckinORIGINAL!!!

thank you for trying^^ remember again, this isn't an attack, this is my personal way of trying to understand.^^

adieu^^[/QUOTE]

[heart havok]

Originally posted by Kytanna
I know why that...^&*%*#$@#% doesn't like GW. He wants to run away from real life. The way it is in GW is like real life, the way they change b/c of whats happeneing around them. Thats all around us and he just wants to go in his own lil la la land. So you don't like GW do we really care? Go to your own forum and leave us people alone. ( the people that aren't trying to run away from real life)


don't make me laugh. :lol: {too late}

Gundam like real life? right... maybe in your imaginary world where males cannot express emotion and you get to pilot gian UNORIGINAL machines.

real life, let's see? hmmm... "Life is Beautiful," have you seen that movie? or perhapse "Schindler's List." you wanna' try Anime? how about ------' "Wings of Honnemise" or even ------' "Grave of Fireflies"... we can go thru any anime or film, and i bet i can give you a better reason so as why it is more to real life than Gundam.


Thanks for the flaming, and by the way, you've just proven yourself uncapable of an intellectual conversation. all i am asking for is what you see in Gundam because i ould like to see that as well. Adieu^^

[Kytanna]

well first off ---- you and go back to hell -------. second...watch the show before you open your damned mouth. now maybe if you would ------- watch some of it you would see that the way they change their veiw towards things IS like real life -------. forget they have gundams..the way they ACT and see things is what i'm talking about you moron. now why don't you go to your little la la land and leave us people alone. (the people who have a damned life and accept it) oh and one more thing......GET INFO BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH JERKOFF.

[heart havok]

Originally posted by firepicalo826
gundam wing is a great aname the original gundams were... ehhh ok

how were they original? "transformers with ornaments" they have nothing special, it's like saying DB has a story that you couldn't fit in a single episode. please share with me how they were original.


Originally posted by firepicalo826
the gw gundams wre great (i love the wing0)
the endless walts gundams are incredible they are so well drawn and they move like angels dancing in moonlite...

yes, they were welldrawn. thanks to Amano^^ however, the character design is ----, and the entire anime is a disgrace to Amano's original work. the animation is even scratchy and rigid. Though i don't recall any dancing in the moonlight... it looks more to me like flies bouncing against the glass wondow.


Originally posted by firepicalo826
they just rule if anyone says otherwise their just weird and i love the gundam wing0 custom im going to get the model as soon as i get mor money.

i must be WEIRD then.

congradulations on your model, and congradulations on that beautiful metaphor you stated above. "like angels dancing in moonlite" that was really nice^^

[Edited by heart havok on 13-11-2000 at 07:12 AM]

[heart havok]

Originally posted by Kytanna
well first off ---- you and go back to hell -------.

damn, someone pissed in your "Cheerios"... you can calm down, i'm not the one flaming. you are.


Originally posted by Kytanna
second...watch the show before you open your damned mouth.

i HAVE SEEN IT. i've even seen the FIRST series and the one after that and so on BEFORE this new series came out. the old ones suck and the new ones are worse.


Originally posted by Kytanna
now maybe if you would ------- watch some of it you would see that the way they change their veiw towards things IS like real life -------.

hmmm, i HAVE seen it, i realized that they do not change views they just whine about how they have to be apathetic because they could die any second, and i am NOT an -------. thank you^^


Originally posted by Kytanna
forget they have gundams..

okay, without Gundams i see even LESS plot.


Originally posted by Kytanna
the way they ACT and see things is what i'm talking about you moron.

yeah, they ACT like they are badasses, and i think YOU are replacing their sight with what you WANT them to see.

mo°ron (mor'on), n. 1...a person born with such a weak mind that s/he can be trained to read; person who does not develope beyond the mental age of eight or twelve years. A moron is less mentally deficient than an imbecile or idiot. 2...informal. a stupid of annoyingly ignorant person; dullard; dunce.

learn the definition of a word before you use it. we only have a formal relationship, thus you must mean definition ONE. hmmm... nope, that i am not. i believe you on your own have made it clear who is the moron in this thread.


Originally posted by Kytanna
now why don't you go to your little la la land and leave us people alone. (the people who have a damned life and accept it) oh and one more thing......

now, why don't you read up in those textbooks of yours and come back when you are done FLAMING people. i am looking for right of reason, not derogatory verbs and name-calling.


Originally posted by Kytanna
GET INFO BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH JERKOFF.

Touche.

[Kytanna]

Leave me the hell alone ------- you don't like gundam then get out of the damned forum. Stop wasting our time. And I'm leaving this forum you should be happy. Well buh bye Jerkoff.

[heart havok]

Originally posted by Kytanna
Leave me the hell alone ------- you don't like gundam then get out of the damned forum. Stop wasting our time. And I'm leaving this forum you should be happy. Well buh bye Jerkoff.


So would anybody like to please help me to open my mind to what is so great about Gundam? i am not looking to offend you, nor am i looking to get flamed ::glares and Kytanna:: nor am i trying to make anyone leave, nor am i trying to down the anime.

all i am simply doing is asking for your reasons so as why Gundam is so great. i am willing to open my mind if you are willing to share your thoughts in an ORGANIZED manner. ::glares at Kytanna:: i know you can be smarter than a few lame cirse words that we have all heard before. i donot know why you are so upset. you are the one flaming ME, remember? all i am doing is apologizing for your rude behavior and trying to keep this on subject. and the subject is not to flame, but rather to inform and share ideas... i am willing to reason though you may not. adieu.^^

[DrZepp]

ok, gundam wing isnt the best anime out there but i still enjoy it. the thing that drew me into it was the political and military side of it, like how the colonies were decieved by ozz and how the sanct kingdom was re-established, i had never seen anything like that in anime before (i am sure there are animes that deal with that topic, if so enlighten me) the characters where dry but i also thoroughly enjoyed seeing them interact, and come to the realization that their existence was verified through piloting the gundams.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

let's all be nice people...
I just thought I'd add Ghost in the Shell to the list of anime that isn't fan service.

I too would like to know what is so darn fabulous about GW, and would also like to defend TENCHI MUYO!!! that had heaps awesome animation and drawing!!! Furthermore it has a real storyline that develops. There's a tiny bit of fan service in it, bu that's only Ryoko anyway and she wouldn't be her unless she did the things she did, it's to help contrast her to Ayeka.

[ssjkasey]

Well, I'll through my two cents in. Why do people like Gundam? That in itself is a rather silly question. I'm sure fans of Gundam didn't wake up one day and say, "I think I'll like Gundam". That's not really the way it works.
You cannot choose to like something. If Gundam connects with someone, then good. If it doesn't, then that fine as well.

So would anybody like to please help me to open my mind to what is so great about Gundam?

How? You said you have watched the series and disliked it. Gundam is what someone feels it is. There is no way to make other people feel the same way about what you love. It can't be debated that an opinion is wrong. You formed your opinion of the show by watching it. And likewise, they watched the show and formed their own opinion. When something connects with someone it is hard to explain why. Havok, if your point is to have someone "open your mind to what is so great about Gundam" then you came here for a silly reason. I know you don't need someone to tell you something is good so you can like it. You didn't like Gundam because it didn't connect with you. They liked Gundam because in some way, it did connect with them. There really isn't much way to debate something like this. Gundam being a "good" anime isn't a fact. It is just an opinion. It is as simple as that.

Now, please tell me your favorite food, and the reasons you like it.

[Draco]

Gundam tells the story pretty well, i liked the peom heero was reading to a class in space, it has a strong connecttion with the story, i forget what is about, something to do with human need to fight

[heart havok]

Originally posted by DrZepp
ok, gundam wing isnt the best anime out there but i still enjoy it. the thing that drew me into it was the political and military side of it, like how the colonies were decieved by ozz and how the sanct kingdom was re-established, i had never seen anything like that in anime before (i am sure there are animes that deal with that topic, if so enlighten me) the characters where dry but i also thoroughly enjoyed seeing them interact, and come to the realization that their existence was verified through piloting the gundams.


this is ------- beautiful. DrZepp... YOU RULE!

**you have been stamped with the "YOU RULE!" seal of approval. copyrights of heart havok and CRo PRODUCTIONS, all rules apply**


Kasey
Well, I'll through my two cents in. Why do people like Gundam? That in itself is a rather silly question. I'm sure fans of Gundam didn't wake up one day and say, "I think I'll like Gundam". That's not really the way it works.
You cannot choose to like something. If Gundam connects with someone, then good. If it doesn't, then that fine as well.

that's a nice two cents. however, you lost me at........

Kasey also
How? You said you have watched the series and disliked it. Gundam is what someone feels it is. There is no way to make other people feel the same way about what you love.

DrZepp just proved you wrong before you even wrote this. his words helped me connect to it... while thinking of GW and reading his comments, i couldn't help but think "hey, this guy's got a great ------' point!" why? because it was simple, intelligable, and quick to the point. not that any of you aren't intelligable. but it really spoke to me.

if one is willing to open the mind, then anything is possible.

if one describes something well enough, then it can draw in all sorts of people... that's all i was looking for. was for someone to be able to simply tell me {just as DrZepp has} "why the ---- Gundam?" that's all i needed to know. i wanted to read why people like Gundam. because i am willing to openup to their opinions and hear them thru.

Again, Kasey, i was never looking for some one to open my mind to gundam... i was willing, and i was looking for someone to give me reason that could help me to open my mind.

indeed Kasey, it is simple as that. and i wanted to hear people voice their opinions.

]draco's words
Gundam tells the story pretty well, i liked the peom heero was reading to a class in space, it has a strong connecttion with the story, i forget what is about, something to do with human need to fight

yeah, i remember that one, in fact, i think i have that poem written down somewhere... i'll go search and type it up if i do.


please! if there are any other of you Gundam Fans out there who can voice your opinion!! i WANT to hear you!!! please help me, for i am looking for giving Gundam a piece of chance {again} maybe your words can help me^^


one last thing...

kasey once more
Now, please tell me your favorite food, and the reasons you like it.

i don't have a favourite food. Adieu^^ and thank you!

[heerogf]

this is another one of those question which i can't seem to find an answer, i agree with you that GW sucks, i have to admit that the show is bad in a lot of way, even though i love GW and i don't know why, i just do!
okkk...something is wrong with me :

[Petit Charat]

WHAAAAAA!!!! heerogf, you make the cabbit cry!!!!!!!!

[heerogf]

sorry rei, I LOVE GW! i really do, it's just that a lot of stuff have been going on in my mind lately, i read too much bad gw review on the net and it has completely taken over my head...i'm gonna snap

[DrZepp]

thank you heart havok, all i was doing was ansering your original question. and kasey my fav food has go to be potatos

[X.E.R.O]

I agree with DrZepp..Gundam isn't just a mindless anime to brainwash people into loving the characters, but it is like a bedtime story that tells you another imaginary world. A world that is different to ours. Although many of us wished to be just like the characters in the imaginary world, our world are not totally different to theirs.

Surely you would like to fantasied yourself like the characters that you found favorable.

X.E.R.O out!!!

[ssjkasey]

DrZepp

ok, gundam wing isnt the best anime out there but i still enjoy it. the thing that drew me into it was the political and military side of it, like how the colonies were decieved by ozz and how the sanct kingdom was re-established, i had never seen anything like that in anime before (i am sure there are animes that deal with that topic, if so enlighten me) the characters where dry but i also thoroughly enjoyed seeing them interact, and come to the realization that their existence was verified through piloting the gundams.

Havok
his words helped me connect to it... while thinking of GW and reading his comments, i couldn't help but think "hey, this guy's got a great ------' point!"

So, you watched the show, didn't like it, DrZepp points out the spirit of the show, which was fairly easy to pick up by watching it, and suddenly you "connect" to it? Maybe he did "prove me wrong" but I thought you could come to the conclusion that you liked it, or didn't like it, simply by watching it.

Yes, I stand corrected.

[ssjkasey]

I realize I'm straying off topic. Yes, I like the show for many of the same reasons as DrZepp. So no need to repeat him.

[Tristan9480]

HeHeHe...I think he is a pissed off Macross or Robotech fane, maybe both.

[ssjkasey]

Originally posted by Tristan9480
HeHeHe...I think he is a pissed off Macross or Robotech fane, maybe both.

No. I am sure just as I am, Havok is calm when he is writing his post on this topic. Even though he may seem pissed when he goes into his playful swearing mode, I assure you he isn't.



[Edited by ssjkasey on 13-11-2000 at 01:54 PM]

[Drizzten]

Defend Gundm Wing? Ok. First of all, the animation isn't top notch. It gets the job done. The designs aren't new, and neither is the premise, a bunch of boys in mechs who fight for good. Big deal, been done and will continue to be done. I'm sorry you believe Amano's work has suffered in the series. I don't watch Gundam for the graphics.

I watch GW because it is a fascinating look at basic human desires. To be better, to win, to be honorable, to be just, to be peaceful, to dominate. The politics are ------- complicated in this series. You start out with Oz and the Earth Sphere Alliance. Then through mutliple wars, betrayals, and alliances, people change sides, join armies, die under the wrong circumstances, and stand firm at the same time. Each boy does exhibit your standard anime characterizations. But when it comes to their cause, nothing gets in their way. I don't consider them pansies because they were raised to do one thing, fight for the colonies. What such conditioning does to the human spirit is debatable.

But, it's the constantly changing political landscape what draws me in. I haven't seen any of the other Gundam series, so I can't judge them. The anti-war rhetoric that the show contains is just as moving and eloquent as the pro-war rhetoric. Heero's speech, Treize's constant justification of his actions, Milardo's duty to honor and job. The war of words is more epic and enduring than the war of death. So many factions die, only to have their causes taken up by other powerful people who commit the same mistakes over and over again. The pilots are forced to turn against the colonies they love so much at one point. There is a lot of drama in this series.

And to be honest, Gundam Wing is on Cartoon Network, translated in cut and uncut editions. Part of my anime history is in Gundam Wing. It's kinda like enjoying the crappy video game systems in our youth. Yeah, they didn't look all that great, but you could feel the effort they put into them.

[Kiyone]

nicely said :)

[Nomad_Soul]

Well i simple love the Gundam series. Why? Well the main reason is there is a deep character developement. You cant say that the pilots are the same as they were in the beginning.

[kaia]

yup, well said... :) and long too... :B:

[Rudy Roughnight]

Originally posted by Kytanna
well first off ---- you and go back to hell -------. second...watch the show before you open your damned mouth. now maybe if you would ------- watch some of it you would see that the way they change their veiw towards things IS like real life -------. forget they have gundams..the way they ACT and see things is what i'm talking about you moron. now why don't you go to your little la la land and leave us people alone. (the people who have a damned life and accept it) oh and one more thing......GET INFO BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH JERKOFF.

*Kicks the living ---- out of Kytanna* Goddamn whats your ------- problem? Can't you say something that doens't make you look like a 5 year old? You better grow up and fast otherwise stay out of here. I can't stand people who talk ---- to my friends. Anyways back to the topic...

I haven't seen the orignial Gundam but I'd like to see it. But the one Gundam series I want to see the most is Gundam Z cause it's got my favorite Gundam of all. Gundam Zeta!

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

hmm..I guess I'll have to go see it, I love commentaries on war and the ethics behind it. Not to mention questioning the value of honour and pride.

But I have this slight hate for Duo..damn him, stealing all my anime loving babes!! O.o

[Drizzten]

Originally posted by heart havok

i am going to come back here often, and read up not only on the replies to this post, but i am going to keep checking in on the other random posts. and if i can start seeing some intellectual replies to this thread and some threads rather than "Silly Quatre" and "Are the Gundam boys gay?" {note, i just picked randome titles}....

if you can do that, and prove to me that Gundam is more than just a bunch of Muscle in Mechs with a cheep story that is made to swoon girls then you win, and i will never speak bad of Gundam again.
Your opinions on my post? I'd like to hear what you think.

[Bisz]

Let me get this strait......


You come here and say things like:

"Why the ---- Gundam!?!?!?!? "
"i am ashamed to admit that Amano draws those piece of ---- hair-styles"
"the Mechs ARE UNfuckinORIGINAL as ----"
"these guys are ------' panseys!"

Then you say:

"i don't mean to be downing your anime of choice so much"
"i DO respect you for your opinion."

And expect that everything will be alright? You come in here swearing your but off and insulting the series then you try to excuse all that by saing "i DO respect you for your opinion." Nope, sorry, that won't work.


Finaly you propose your 'deal':

"if i can start seeing some intellectual replies to this thread...and prove to me that Gundam is more than just a bunch of Muscle in Mechs with a cheep story that is made to swoon girls then you win, and i will never speak bad of Gundam again."

What are we, on trial here? We have to prove something to you?


Bud, you need a serious change in attitude. Frankly, I don't care what your opinion is and I refuse to have my opinions put on trial by you.


My 2 cents


Bisz

[ryezen]

Before this thread gets out of hand, please bear in mind that this is the GUNDAM FORUM and not the INSULTS FORUM, otherwise, as interesting as this thread is, I will have to close it

you have your first warning

[Drizzten]

C'mon, Heart Havok. I spent like 30-40 minutes working on that GW defense. I don't want this thread closed yet.

[Ko Hakaisha]

Havok, to start off, I'd like to ask YOU a question. ^^ How have you been doing on the whole "reading other threads" bit? ^^

Secondly, I'd like to drop a couple lines to Bisz. Havok, in all is strange ways, manages to cuss violently in every single post he makes. When he cusses, you learn to just ... ignore it. He's the type that says "Happy ****in' day!" when he's in a good mood. Strange, ain't he? ^^ But he's still cool.

Thirdly, I'd like to say that the lead Peace Leaders name was Martial Noventa. ^^

Lastly, I'd like to defend my views on Gundam ... I watch Gundam for (on the most part) two reasons: the character development and the plot.

Like it or not, Gundam is fully based on character development, and has just as much as Eva does. I haven't seen all of Eva yet, I'm afraid (in fact I haven't seen half of it), but I have read character summaries, and I have a fairly good idea of how they change throughout the series. Gundam's development is much more subtle, but nonetheless just as much. Each character envisions a world of peace, his own personal utopia, and he fights for it. Along the way, this utopia he desires is shattered, and he must learn to cope with the world as it really, truly is, and to then each tries to right the wrongs in this world. A character suddenly finds himself stripped of all his ideals, and he must find the true meaning of his own life ... It'd be like having a whole bunch of Shinjis running around. ^^

And I love the plot of Gundam. Governmental intrigue, revolution, death, pain, and even mental death ... Think about it ... You are the pilot of a strange, lethal mecha, a Gundam. You and four others are sent to Earth. None of you know about the other four, and suppose them all to be enemies. You must overthrow this evil, tyrranical government that is suppressing the people. It is, in more ways than one, an anarchy. A government ruled by the rich. Suddenly, you find that the government you were sent to destroy suffered a coup d'etat. Your own enemy has destroyed himself, and given birth to a new, more horrible version of himself. What should you do? Should you say your mission is completed? After all, the government you were sent to destroy has been ... Or should you fight to the bitter end, and destroy this new, more terrible government? Unlike the name you have given these five boys (reference to pansy! ^^), they stood and fought for the ideals they believed in. But suddenly, the cowardice government they were fighting manufactured a new "super-fighter." A mobile doll. They require no pilot, and thus no man is lost in the fight. Is this a good thing? No more deaths ... But, no ... It means that the government isn't taking responsibility for their actions. These five young men must rise above this new trial, but they suddenly find themselves stripped of everything they've known, and must start anew ... to bring peace. Suddenly, this evil government they've worked so hard to destroy splits in two. Now they have two enemies, and all three of the warring factions seem to crave the same thing: peace. But each wants to be the ruler of this peace! Would that be TRUE peace? No ... ... Just a fake peace; a false peace. And that would mean failure.

Now, tell me that's not good! ^^ Well, I like it, at least. ^^ And when these five young boys hide their emotions from themselves and each other, I can start to see why. I don't know about you, but I know I would crack under the pressure ... and my pride would keep myself from showing this to my friends and allies.

[Drizzten]

Ko, you took the words right outta my mouth! I knew I wanted to write a detailed plot summary, but I didn't have the patience for it! :D Well written...

[heart havok]

i apologize Drizzten, but i will respond to both yours and Ko's replies as soon as i can. i've things to be dealing with, and i would like to take my time while typing my replies to both of your posts. at the moment, i don't have the time that i feel i need to make a clean worthy debate. and, it looks like i will have to do it without cursing for those who have been conformed to think that a curse word is nothing more than a way to express anger. so eitherway, i'll reply as soon as possible. adieu

[Drizzten]

Arigato! No hurry. :)

[San]

I'm afraid that while I love the gundam series, (anything with huge robots fighting is my sorta thing) the plot isn't the best and could use some work. It ain't the greatest plot line but then again it isn't the worst either. And if the plotline is unorigional, most plot lines aren't. TV has been around long enough that alot of the stuff is merely older stuff being recycled. I feel that we'll just have to put up with it. Besides Gundam is a great way to blow a half hour... even if it isn't the best show out there. Unfortunately only one show can claim that title, and I'm sure I haven't found it yet... though Mononoke is pretty good.

About the character's being weak... most shows have a major flaw in their character's to exploit in-order to creat plot twists that the audience can easy tell what will happen, this is when a really good show will change it to suprise you into something completely different. And if they bury their feelings, alot of people do... especially if they are under the pressures of combat. that's why they have a syndrom that causes older soldier's many problems. when they see realistic re-enactments of combat all of the soldier's suppressed and forgotten memories surfance and they are no longer able to cope... this causes them to break down.

But honestly, if the show had a set of superhuman protagonists who could always win cause they are just so powerful would you want to watch it? every show has to have a weak point for their characters and this is one of the weak points for the character's of gundam. it breaks up their unity because they would pretty much create an ultimate fighting force if they were to unite. That would make for a really bad story line...

Now the hair, why does everyone always attack the hair in anime shows!?! Anime has a wierd way of doing the hair but i like it... it's not real, but then they don't mean it to look truely real. i'm sure that if the artists' really wanted to make the hair look real they could. I think that the animator's wanted to make the hair look that way...

FOR THE LOVE OF BOB LEAVE THE HAIR ALONE!!!
(not angry just... why?)

Now we move onto the fact that giant mech's have been used over and over... that's because the people want them too...

I want to put more in this, but i have to go to my Japanese class.

Over and out...

And as they say:

Death rides on my shoulder,
and Destruction strides in my wake.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Originally posted by Bisz
Let me get this strait......


You come here and say things like:

"Why the ---- Gundam!?!?!?!? "
"i am ashamed to admit that Amano draws those piece of ---- hair-styles"
"the Mechs ARE UNfuckinORIGINAL as ----"
"these guys are ------' panseys!"

Then you say:

"i don't mean to be downing your anime of choice so much"
"i DO respect you for your opinion."

And expect that everything will be alright? You come in here swearing your but off and insulting the series then you try to excuse all that by saing "i DO respect you for your opinion." Nope, sorry, that won't work.


Finaly you propose your 'deal':

"if i can start seeing some intellectual replies to this thread...and prove to me that Gundam is more than just a bunch of Muscle in Mechs with a cheep story that is made to swoon girls then you win, and i will never speak bad of Gundam again."

What are we, on trial here? We have to prove something to you?


Bud, you need a serious change in attitude. Frankly, I don't care what your opinion is and I refuse to have my opinions put on trial by you.


My 2 cents


Bisz


cool dude, I understand u completly. it's interesting that in the same post that u say u don't want ur opinion on trial, u put his cursing on trial. O.o

I agree that his swearing can be misleading, but u must understand that he DOES respect others opinions..

1) Saying "Why the ---- gundam?" isn't that big a deal. I type "wtf?" all the time, doesn't mean I am mad, just means the issue is confusing and I want an answer.
2) He loves his artists work..so maybe he don't like the hair from gundam..he isn't abusing the artist or the followers or even the series, just the hair style. Do you like Mohawks?
3) Do you deny that the mechs are un-original? add a swear word to the sentence and all of a sudden a comment becomes an accusation or something?
4) heheh, so maybe he thinks the characters are wimps..no biggy, I think Shinji's a wanker for letting my asuka die...maybe he's jealous that Duo Maxwell keeps stealing the girls with his plushie.

It DOES work, have a look around, anyone who knows Havok knows he listens to an opinion no matter. After all, he understands my opinion and I have some of the most unliked opinions on the boards. Even if he started calling me a perverted loser who believes he's a penguin, I am betting he'd hear me out :-)

You aren't on Trial. He didn't say "Explain to me or I delete this forum." Anyone who doesn't wanna express their love for Gundam could simply leave the thread. I find that when people really love something, they're dieing for a chance tell the world about it. Perhaps Havok wanted to filter the casual watchers from those who truely love it and will actually be able to assist him in seeing the light of Gundam. I couldn't possibly point out all the great things about Ranma 1/2 even tho I watch it, cos I aint completly crazy about it. If I was challenged as to why I like it, I wouldn't care..whereas if I loved it I'm sure I'd come up with a lot of really good reasons and I'd defend it. See, you aren't on trial, he prolly just wants some real replies. Sorry if u felt like he was judging u just cos ya like GW. DO it in an eva forum, challenge people as to why they love evangeion. You'll prolly get like a 200 reply massive thread about all the best things about NGE..in that thread u could find out everything u need to know about eva. it works both ways. See I had no intention of seeing gundam wing before, but now that everyone has given so many different angles to it I am interested. bang, just like that..threads like this aren't trial, they're a chance to recruit new GW lovers.

Refuse to have ur opinions put on trial my ass. If u refuse then why'd u post in here?

[Ado]

Originally posted by Pengi_Ken-Ohki

Refuse to have ur opinions put on trial my ass. If u refuse then why'd u post in here? [/B]

I totaly agree.....

As to why I like Gundam.....The music :) hehe^^

[Ado]

Oh ya and the explosions !! ^^ :)

[Ko Hakaisha]

Oh ... my ... gosh ...

Pengie said something smart! ^^ [gives Pengie a badge of honor!!]

Thanks, Drizzten, for th' compliment. ^^ I was bored during Web Mastering ... ^^

And take yer time, Havok! ^^

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Originally posted by Ko Hakaisha
Oh ... my ... gosh ...

Pengie said something smart! ^^ [gives Pengie a badge of honor!!]

Thanks, Drizzten, for th' compliment. ^^ I was bored during Web Mastering ... ^^

And take yer time, Havok! ^^

Oh..my....gosh...

Ko Hakaisha noticed me! now if only he was a she and she lived in canberra...


(never EVER compliment me..it makes me all weird and I return to being dumb u twit!!)

[Ko Hakaisha]

I noticed.

[Drizzten]

Keeping this alive for Havok's return. :B:

*twiddles thumbs*

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Originally posted by Ko Hakaisha
I noticed.

-------. *woops* musta slipped :-)

[Forever Z.E.R.O.]

NOTE: I'm cutting in late, please forgive me.

Originally posted by heart havok
first of all, the worst thing about the animation quality for me is that my favourite Japanese artist, Yoshitaki Amano draws for Gundam... that is a rather discrace to me because the GW animation is nothing compared to his own style of art. They lessed Amano.

Yeah, I too think the animation quality in the majority of the episodes(about 99.8%) is bad. Compared to the animation in the final episode, and Endless Waltz, the rest of the series looks like poop, but hey, not all animes can keep consistant art going.

with the GREAT exception of Tenchi Muyo, now i can clearly see why it is that you think GW's animation is so great. because DBZ and SM are 10 times worse when it comes to animation. if you want good animation, then you need to see Eva, Cowboy Bebop, Mononoke Hime, Utena, Lain, Key The Medal Idol, etcetra, etcetra.

DBZ and SM have good art, but it fluctuates greatly. Theres a lot of factors to look at in animation quality. Not just hair. Character movement, how fluidly the characters body moves, detail such as shading, special effects like when booster jets are erupting all around, etc etc etc.

a "pet peve" of mine is hair that looks like it was cut out of cardboard. -_-

Well, thats your problem. Dont expect us to fix your flaws.

i see the relation, and this, i never noticed.^^ however, you can look into Mononoke Hime if you're interested in "the way of the Samuyrai." Ninja Scroll also, {at a more adult level} and from what i've HEARD, you should also look into Rurouni Kenshin. if you want more, just ask.

Yeah, seen 'em. Ninja Scroll is one great movie.

that is not a plot twist, that is simply titled "drama." {by actual definition}

if you want drama, try realizing that your protagonist wasn't alive the entire time you were wathcing. or try finding that what you thought was reality was merely the protagonist in a film. or how would you feel if they KILL OFF your main character right infront of you in the middle of the series?

if you want Plot Twists, then you can look forward to a "normal school girl" suddenly anime turning into dramatic search into the past of memories questioning reality. or you can look forward to a "normal bounty hunters" animd to turning into a question of life. or even the question of the strength of the subconscious mind over the conscious. the questioning of live within "the wired" or even the questioning of whether or not you are actually alive watching that anime!

::glare:: could you imagine what those would feel like? much more intense on the mind as opposed to "oh, my emotionless 'hero' is going to die, oh no. okay he didn't."

Yep.

pansies? indeed they are. these guys are weaker than shinji. why? because they can't even deal with emotion. nor even the thought of dealing with life. yeah, maybe shinji from Eva runs away from his pain, but these guys just block it all out. if you ask me, shinji is 100xstronger for at least trying. they are apathetic bastards and nothing more. it takes a real man to face emotions and troubles. any weakling can block them out.

Not any weakling can block out emotion. I try to all the time and i still find myself crying like a bitch. The fact that they dont confront their emotions is wrong, Quatre is one of the biggest crybabies I've ever seen. Heero nearly breaks up like a little bitch when fighting Wu Fei. Unemotional? Duo shows signs of rage all the time. So does Wu Fei.

no, you missed the most important one......

Gundam is UNfuckinORIGINAL!!!

thank you for trying^^ remember again, this isn't an attack, this is my personal way of trying to understand.^^

adieu^^

Oh please, the fact that its mecha doesnt make it unoriginal. Mech designs? Please, every damn mech series has something similar to the last. Transformers: the 8 million Gundam Series': Neon Genesis Evangelion: Patlabor: Voltron: Xenogears: Tenchi Muyo: Final Fantasy: Tech Romancer: Front Mission: Escaflowne: etc etc etc. By following your ideas, all mecha is unoriginal. If you werent so biased, we wouldnt be having this debate, but instead your letting your emotions dictate your life. JUST like Heero, Trowa and the rest of the Gundam pilots I might add.

[Forever Z.E.R.O.]

Originally posted by heart havok
[B][QUOTE]So would anybody like to please help me to open my mind to what is so great about Gundam? i am not looking to offend you, nor am i looking to get flamed ::glares and Kytanna:: nor am i trying to make anyone leave, nor am i trying to down the anime.

Please, how could you say you dont want to down the anime when you say stuff like "the art is crap," "the story isnt one," and "the mechs are unoriginal."

all i am simply doing is asking for your reasons so as why Gundam is so great. i am willing to open my mind if you are willing to share your thoughts in an ORGANIZED manner. ::glares at Kytanna:: i know you can be smarter than a few lame cirse words that we have all heard before. i donot know why you are so upset. you are the one flaming ME, remember? all i am doing is apologizing for your rude behavior and trying to keep this on subject. and the subject is not to flame, but rather to inform and share ideas... i am willing to reason though you may not. adieu.^^

I will try and show you why Gundam is great by looking into your later replies.

Not the end....

[Forever Z.E.R.O.]

Ok, I'm bored and hungry so I will continue refuting other arguments later. For now, I'll say why I like Gundam:

1. Good, fast paced action sequences.

Endless Waltz: the Angelic Wing Zero and Nataku flash all through space, energy weapons blazing, wings flapping.

The opening battle sequence where we see all the Gundams bashing though countless enemies, the scene is filled with complete confusion as we watch hundreds of explosions splitting the battle field.

The final battle as the Gundams, Zechs, and Noin in their battered Mobile Suits pull desperate maneuvers trying to save the lives of their enemies.

2. A good dub. Something hard to find today.

3. Good, angry main characters who are confused in their daily lives. Sure, they dont have the down to Earth problems we do, but they deal with having to find out who they are, who their friends are, relationships, and where they belong.

I guess thats pretty much it. Anyway, I'ma go get something to eat. Later.

[Tsunami-X]

ok people, no offence, but this thread is getting real boring, i just don't have the time or patience to sit down and read your arguments about why GW is good or bad, as a matter of fact, i don't care, i think everyone's entitled to their own opinion so why can't we just leave it at that and act like civilized anime fans, we do have a purpose in this world, not to fight, not to argue, but to share the fun and adventure of the anime world!!!! sure others try to put us to shame, but we won't take it anymore!!!! i'll make sure every living creature on this planet is not deprived of anime, i'll even make those roach's down the street view a single show of tenchi muyo, why? because they deserve it, thats why!!!!!.... you know, i could talk on for hours about this but i'll save you the trouble or reading it, now where was i? hmm... i'll just end here i guess, toodles!!! :D

[Drizzten]

It's boring because the thread starter is AWOL. :lol: A debate goes on as long as no one agrees. We're waiting for Heart Havok to return to keep this up.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

I don't see why he would. He's already agreed that he was wrong..except about the crappy animation.graphics.

[20eva]

You know, I've always been prone to bad reviews. When I want to see a movie, but ebert doesn't stick one of his lazy, wrinkled phalanges in the air, will I go? Probably not. You could say a lot of anime sucks today, and you can dissect it all if you want too. I tried to do that to Tenchi Muyo the other day, and it didn't work-what's Tenchi's motivation? Is the show's appeal based on personality or character design? The point is enjoy it if you like it, even if it seems stupid or unoriginal. Miyazaki himself said, "..I yearned for such an earnest and pure world though it may be cheap melodrama." Yeah, anime has problems-Miyazaki cited loss of motavation as one, which Gundam may have (why do they fight? is it because they're just pilots?). But Gundam is enjoyable for me, so I'll continue watching, despite whatever flaws heart havok might've mentioned. Besides, everything's screwed up-we're in a period of decadence. Decadence, is, in Voltaire's words, the surfeit of fine art and the love of the bizarre-which may explain the funky hair, extreme personalities in almost all anime. Anime, once for children, is spiraling off into different territory, for good and for bad. I don't know if I just made sense, but there's my two cents.

[Ko Hakaisha]

Hmph. If some professional reviewer like Ebert says a movie is bad, I make a special point TO se it. I never could understand any of their tastes. They're all like that guy who bashed Gundam for ever single reason I loved it (no, I'm not talking about Havok. That other guy ... O.o). So, N E Wayz, we should all spam Havok until he returns and answers us!!! [insert warcry here]

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

oh u mean we weren't supposed to do that already?

[Tsunami-X]

i think he's tired of replying to all the messages on this thread... we need to make the point short and sweet people!!! j/k, what we really need is something worth arguing and debating about... hmm, like why dident they call it Gundam Wang instead of Gundam Wing? You would of had Wang Zero, and DeathWang, HeavyWangs, um... and WangLong!!!!!

(i think i've been druged, it's not like me to talk in this manner, only after i've had some Mountain Dew, then you can expect me to act this way ^_^ yehawwww!!!!!!, maybe the goverment is mass producing mobile suits as we speak, we could be under Mecha Warfare and not know it!!!!! ah poopy, forget it, toodles!!!!:D)

[Drizzten]

Gundam.........Wang? :lol: Gotta tell my GW friends that!

[heerogf]

:lol: Gundam WAng!!! hahhahhahahhah :lol: my friend is gonna be so wack when they hear this

[Tsunami-X]

nobody can steal my Rubber Suit Gundam Wang idea, ok? i've already made a 10 page Gundam Wang manga and i also made a Super Korean manga, i think its about 26 pages, front and back, if i can scan my manga's onto a website sometime then i'll tell you all about it, if not then poopy, toodles ppl!!!!! :D

[heerogf]

ok ok, calm down tsunami-man :P

[Tsunami-X]

here's a picture of Super Korean, oh oh, boom!!!

http://www.geocities.com/freaky_anime/ssk.gif

do you like? he is the baddest dude to ever live, L8ers ppl!!!! :D

[heerogf]

:lol: i think he is more of the skinnyest guy then the baddest guys,
btw, nice drawing, i love the idea of super korean, what r r gonna come up with next?

[buddman]

Gundam wing is not my favorite anime, but it is a very good one. It has addictive factors to it. There are alot of very different characters and everyone can relate to at least one character. because of multiple characters you dont always see what happens next with who you want there is a lot of jumping around. It also has some philosophical questions that make you think. Like how far should a pacifism go and is fighting a war yourself more honorable than having a robot drone fight for you. The musical score is also well done. That is my view.

[Tsunami-X]

i wonder what i'll think of next???? have any idea's people???? i could use some..... :D *sings the turkey song*

[heerogf]

i just read this really funny idea on another forum, anybody ever heard of Gundam Chicken Wing??? :lol: i don't know what the heck that is, i just thought is was funny

[Tsunami-X]

i've got one:

Wang Muyo (No Need for Wang)

A story of a Wang that had a Thang for the Bang, yoyo mother fro.... *thinks he is hopeless...* ah, if only i had some inspiration... ah well, no biggie, do you know Wang Wiggolo, Female Giggolo!!!! ^_^ sings "i wish today was Sunday, so i coud get a cheeseburger for, 39 cents, at McDonalds...." AGH.... i think the affects of the mountain dew have worn off, i'm better now, thankyou and goodnight... :D

[heerogf]

:lol:...i kind of got lost after "thang for the bang"

[Tsunami-X]

i get lost too heerogf, maybe i should stop drinking mountain dew and switch to something with less caffine like coffee :D

[heart havok]

well, Ko resently Instant Messaged me, and asked "hey havok, if you don't get your busy ass into the Gundam Thread and respond, i'm going to hunt you down, kick your ass, and eat you for dinner!" but not in so many words^^ eitherway, i decided to put my pencil and paper down, and get my ass over her and answer your replies so that Ko and Drizzten and Zero don't have to wait any longer.

"wow, 5 whole pages, this will take forever to read!" was my first thought... until i saw just how off topic this has gotten. eitherway, seeing as how MISUNDERSTOOD my post is, with the exception of Drizzten and Ko, there isn't much more reason for me to w.a.s.t.e. my time here anymore.

::thinking::


in respect of Drizzten and Ko, however, i will stay, and reply to everything^^

::clicks the "This is a long thread. Click here (http://www.animeboards.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=5617) to review it." link::

okay... shall we begin then?

Heerogf
this is another one of those question which i can't seem to find an answer, i agree with you that GW sucks, i have to admit that the show is bad in a lot of way, even though i love GW and i don't know why, i just do!
okkk...something is wrong with me :

nice Sig^^


X.E.R.O
I agree with DrZepp..Gundam isn't just a mindless anime to brainwash people into loving the characters, but it is like a bedtime story that tells you another imaginary world. A world that is different to ours. Although many of us wished to be just like the characters in the imaginary world, our world are not totally different to theirs.

Surely you would like to fantasied yourself like the characters that you found favorable.

you're missing the point of my questions.


Kasey
So, you watched the show, didn't like it, DrZepp points out the spirit of the show, which was fairly easy to pick up by watching it, and suddenly you "connect" to it? Maybe he did "prove me wrong" but I thought you could come to the conclusion that you liked it, or didn't like it, simply by watching it.

Yes, I stand corrected.

yes, the anime doesn't speak to me, yes, DrZepp gave me a MAGNIFICENT definition as of what it is that he sees in Gundam Wing. that's all i was asking for.


Tristan9480
HeHeHe...I think he is a pissed off Macross or Robotech fane, maybe both.

Macross fan, yes... Robotech, no... Patlabor, only the Manga... Eva, without a doubt {doesn't consider that "Mecha" though because the Evas aren't Mechs}... Escaflowne, don't know yet, i'm currently watching it... others, maybe.

pissed off? not at all.


Drizzten
Defend Gundm Wing? Ok. First of all, the animation isn't top notch. It gets the job done. The designs aren't new, and neither is the premise, a bunch of boys in mechs who fight for good. Big deal, been done and will continue to be done. I'm sorry you believe Amano's work has suffered in the series. I don't watch Gundam for the graphics.

first off, i'm not asking anyone to defend their opinion... just asking for you to SHARE it. as though most people don't understand it, i completely respect everyone's opinion, and i am not "Downing" the anime at all, i am nothing more than pointing out qualities that it lacks or that is poorly done. just giving the reason behind MY opinions. but hey, i'm pretty sure you know that. but most people didn't.

Drizzten
I watch GW because it is a fascinating look at basic human desires. To be better, to win, to be honorable, to be just, to be peaceful, to dominate. The politics are ------- complicated in this series. You start out with Oz and the Earth Sphere Alliance. Then through mutliple wars, betrayals, and alliances, people change sides, join armies, die under the wrong circumstances, and stand firm at the same time. Each boy does exhibit your standard anime characterizations. But when it comes to their cause, nothing gets in their way. I don't consider them pansies because they were raised to do one thing, fight for the colonies. What such conditioning does to the human spirit is debatable.
yeah, the use of politics is what first got me watching it long LONG ago. i suppose the reason that i find them "Pansies" is because they lack character. yeah, i understand that they were raised to lack character and only fight, but still... i don't see how one could have patience when you have four protagonists who are BLANLY the same. by saying BLANLY, i simply mean that they could have made a single character with the combined qualities of the five, and it would hardly change the overall plot. {to those of you who will missunderstand this>>>>>> yes, i KNOW it would change the plot, but i'm saying that it WOULDN'T change the overall plot}

Drizzten
But, it's the constantly changing political landscape what draws me in. I haven't seen any of the other Gundam series, so I can't judge them. The anti-war rhetoric that the show contains is just as moving and eloquent as the pro-war rhetoric. Heero's speech, Treize's constant justification of his actions, Milardo's duty to honor and job. The war of words is more epic and enduring than the war of death. So many factions die, only to have their causes taken up by other powerful people who commit the same mistakes over and over again. The pilots are forced to turn against the colonies they love so much at one point. There is a lot of drama in this series.
yeah, the drama is nice. i recall one episode in particular where Treize {i believe it's him} has a new Gundam, and the other boys are having to fight HIM. this episode i really enjoyed because of the great intensity of the dramatic influence it had there... how Heero {i believe it was Heero} was all fucked in the head becuase he was being forced to fight his companion. i would have loved this scene... however, besides the fact that there was too much pointless dialogue of Heero{?} screaming "Treize! you don't have to do this!" over and over again, i anticipated the entire scene... not only anticipated it, but i REALLY anticipated it. i mean, once they first mentioned "that's Treize piloting that Gundam!" then i was thinking "ooh, yay, now they have to fight their companion and their gonna' ---- their pants." seriously, i know it was a good scene, but what's it worth if you can predict it all?

Drizzten
And to be honest, Gundam Wing is on Cartoon Network, translated in cut and uncut editions. Part of my anime history is in Gundam Wing. It's kinda like enjoying the crappy video game systems in our youth. Yeah, they didn't look all that great, but you could feel the effort they put into them.
hmmm, too bad i don't get Cartoon Network then. maybe i could give it another chance. yeah, i think i may see what you mean about the "crappy video gam systems" but i don't look back on those much more then that they were great at the time.

Nomad_Soul
Well i simple love the Gundam series. Why? Well the main reason is there is a deep character developement. You cant say that the pilots are the same as they were in the beginning.
no, i can't say they are the same at the end, but just because there's a difference doesn't mean the character development is great. look at Pokemon... just because Pikachu likes Ash now doesn't exactly mean there was great character developement.

Rudy
*Kicks the living ---- out of Kytanna* Goddamn whats your ------- problem? Can't you say something that doens't make you look like a 5 year old? You better grow up and fast otherwise stay out of here. I can't stand people who talk ---- to my friends. Anyways back to the topic...
thank you Rudy, but there's no need for that...^^

Rudy
I haven't seen the orignial Gundam but I'd like to see it. But the one Gundam series I want to see the most is Gundam Z cause it's got my favorite Gundam of all. Gundam Zeta!
that's a shame, if you're a fan of any Gundam, i highly recommend the original, i personally think that it is much better than the newer. ESPECIALLY because it was all fresher ideas back then.

Drizzten
Your opinions on my post? I'd like to hear what you think.
here i am!^^

Bisz
Let me get this strait......


You come here and say things like:

"Why the ---- Gundam!?!?!?!? "
"i am ashamed to admit that Amano draws those piece of ---- hair-styles"
"the Mechs ARE UNfuckinORIGINAL as ----"
"these guys are ------' panseys!"

Then you say:

"i don't mean to be downing your anime of choice so much"
"i DO respect you for your opinion."

And expect that everything will be alright? You come in here swearing your but off and insulting the series then you try to excuse all that by saing "i DO respect you for your opinion." Nope, sorry, that won't work.


Finaly you propose your 'deal':

"if i can start seeing some intellectual replies to this thread...and prove to me that Gundam is more than just a bunch of Muscle in Mechs with a cheep story that is made to swoon girls then you win, and i will never speak bad of Gundam again."

What are we, on trial here? We have to prove something to you?


Bud, you need a serious change in attitude. Frankly, I don't care what your opinion is and I refuse to have my opinions put on trial by you.


My 2 cents

well i certainly wouldn't go to a Sailor Moon posting board and ask for peoples' opinions on Gundam Wing, now would i? ::hands you a dollar::

Ryezen
Before this thread gets out of hand, please bear in mind that this is the GUNDAM FORUM and not the INSULTS FORUM, otherwise, as interesting as this thread is, I will have to close it

you have your first warning
hey there Ryezen. i certainly hope this thread is doing better now that the missunderstanders and flamers are gone^^

Drizzten
C'mon, Heart Havok. I spent like 30-40 minutes working on that GW defense. I don't want this thread closed yet.
again, Drizzten, i certainly hope that you really don't feel you have to DEFEND your opinion, because i certainly didn't mean to sound {read} like i was trying to OFFEND it. rather than defend it, please just DISCUSS it with me^^


okay, i need to get back to my character design now, i've been posting too much. i certainly hope.... just joking Ko.^^ of course i'm going to answer yours too^^



KO!
Havok, to start off, I'd like to ask YOU a question. ^^ How have you been doing on the whole "reading other threads" bit? ^^
actually, i thought i'd just gather the things here, then other people who don't like Gundam can come here and maybe find reason to GIVE IT ANOTHER CHANCE^^ also, what better way to get people to excersize their brain as well as their typing skills^^ also, you can't honestly say that you didn't get something out of typing that post, you must have fell accomplished^^

KO!
Secondly, I'd like to drop a couple lines to Bisz. Havok, in all is strange ways, manages to cuss violently in every single post he makes. When he cusses, you learn to just ... ignore it. He's the type that says "Happy ****in' day!" when he's in a good mood. Strange, ain't he? ^^ But he's still cool.
i thank you greatly.

KO!
Thirdly, I'd like to say that the lead Peace Leaders name was Martial Noventa. ^^

Lastly, I'd like to defend my views on Gundam ... I watch Gundam for (on the most part) two reasons: the character development and the plot.

again... we don't need defending, just discussing^^

::moderating the moderator^^j/k::

KO!
Like it or not, Gundam is fully based on character development, and has just as much as Eva does. I haven't seen all of Eva yet, I'm afraid (in fact I haven't seen half of it), but I have read character summaries, and I have a fairly good idea of how they change throughout the series. Gundam's development is much more subtle, but nonetheless just as much. Each character envisions a world of peace, his own personal utopia, and he fights for it. Along the way, this utopia he desires is shattered, and he must learn to cope with the world as it really, truly is, and to then each tries to right the wrongs in this world. A character suddenly finds himself stripped of all his ideals, and he must find the true meaning of his own life ... It'd be like having a whole bunch of Shinjis running around. ^^
honestly, i think you should see the rest of Eva before you say that Gundam has as much Character developement... the final two episodes ALONE have more character developement than any anime i've seen {with the exception of Serial Experiments Lain}

KO!
And I love the plot of Gundam. Governmental intrigue, revolution, death, pain, and even mental death ... Think about it ... You are the pilot of a strange, lethal mecha, a Gundam. You and four others are sent to Earth. None of you know about the other four, and suppose them all to be enemies. You must overthrow this evil, tyrranical government that is suppressing the people. It is, in more ways than one, an anarchy. A government ruled by the rich. Suddenly, you find that the government you were sent to destroy suffered a coup d'etat. Your own enemy has destroyed himself, and given birth to a new, more horrible version of himself. What should you do? Should you say your mission is completed? After all, the government you were sent to destroy has been ... Or should you fight to the bitter end, and destroy this new, more terrible government?
yeah, it all sounds great, but again, it is VERY unoriginal. sorry, but i am very attaken to originality. also, monotinous. you have a government, you destroy that government just to have another one ahead of you that you need to destroy... it's just as sickening to me as studying history and then studying history of that history even though history is nothing more than the repetative circle of the histories before it. i mean, there's not that much new to Gundam... maybe it's that i've just already seen alot of anime, or maybe it's that i'm just up for much more extensive storylines than that. then again, i'm not too hard to please, considering i like Tenchi in Tokyo. then again, maybe i don't even know why i'm completely opposed to Gundam, it may be the unoriginality {most likely}, then again, it could be the redundant side of it, or it could be the fact that there's nothing that twists my mind any, maybe it's because it's not a challange AT ALL for me to anticipate and predict, and maybe it's because of the hair {though the comment on hair was a complete joke}... overall, the plot sounds good and there's nothing wrong with unoriginal Plots as long as they have unexpected subplots to originate it, but doesn't , and that doesn't play off well. {better than DB, none the less^^} there's very FEW subplots to give the main plot an uplifting twist of indifference, of course everything needs a simple main plot to suport it as a BACKBONE, but you don't have a human body without the complete skeleton. and then there are the characters and filler to create the muscular tissues and organs... it hasn't... or atleast i have yet to see any of that other skeleton in Gundam... i see a body with organs, tissues and a spine, and that's about it. the rest of the bones aren't exactly intact. thus, it is lacking.

KO!
Unlike the name you have given these five boys (reference to pansy! ^^), they stood and fought for the ideals they believed in. But suddenly, the cowardice government they were fighting manufactured a new "super-fighter." A mobile doll. They require no pilot, and thus no man is lost in the fight. Is this a good thing? No more deaths ... But, no ... It means that the government isn't taking responsibility for their actions. These five young men must rise above this new trial, but they suddenly find themselves stripped of everything they've known, and must start anew ... to bring peace. Suddenly, this evil government they've worked so hard to destroy splits in two. Now they have two enemies, and all three of the warring factions seem to crave the same thing: peace. But each wants to be the ruler of this peace! Would that be TRUE peace? No ... ... Just a fake peace; a false peace. And that would mean failure.
damn, see above. all i really have to say in response is basically the same thing. however, i might add that another reason that i am not intrigued by this plot is because i see it in so many anime. {i think i said this already... nevermind}

KO!
Now, tell me that's not good! ^^ Well, I like it, at least. ^^ And when these five young boys hide their emotions from themselves and each other, I can start to see why. I don't know about you, but I know I would crack under the pressure ... and my pride would keep myself from showing this to my friends and allies.
yes, of course that's a good plot! {and a good summary too} but it's just been done so many times before {in so many different ways}.. also, you have to keep in mind that i saw all the previous versions of Gundam. it's like Evangelion. i completely LOVE it, but if they made more versions of it and series of it as add ons that are nothing more than the same plotline repeating over and over and over again just with different characters and different names of the mechs, i would get sick of Eva too! ::gasp:: you see what i mean though? atleast with that idea?

Drizzten
Ko, you took the words right outta my mouth! I knew I wanted to write a detailed plot summary, but I didn't have the patience for it! Well written...
that certainly WAS well written, wasn't it?
[/quote]

heart havok
i apologize Drizzten, but i will respond to both yours and Ko's replies as soon as i can. i've things to be dealing with, and i would like to take my time while typing my replies to both of your posts. at the moment, i don't have the time that i feel i need to make a clean worthy debate. and, it looks like i will have to do it without cursing for those who have been conformed to think that a curse word is nothing more than a way to express anger. so eitherway, i'll reply as soon as possible. adieu
>< oh ----, that's me.

San
I'm afraid that while I love the gundam series, (anything with huge robots fighting is my sorta thing) the plot isn't the best and could use some work. It ain't the greatest plot line but then again it isn't the worst either. And if the plotline is unorigional, most plot lines aren't. TV has been around long enough that alot of the stuff is merely older stuff being recycled. I feel that we'll just have to put up with it. Besides Gundam is a great way to blow a half hour... even if it isn't the best show out there. Unfortunately only one show can claim that title, and I'm sure I haven't found it yet... though Mononoke is pretty good.
actually, if you ask me, i personally think that nothing compares to the plots of Serial Experiments Lain and Neon Genesis : Evangelion

yes, Mononoke Hime was very good, wasn't it?

San
About the character's being weak... most shows have a major flaw in their character's to exploit in-order to creat plot twists that the audience can easy tell what will happen, this is when a really good show will change it to suprise you into something completely different. And if they bury their feelings, alot of people do... especially if they are under the pressures of combat. that's why they have a syndrom that causes older soldier's many problems. when they see realistic re-enactments of combat all of the soldier's suppressed and forgotten memories surfance and they are no longer able to cope... this causes them to break down.
i wasn't saying that the characters have flaws. i know exactly why characters have flaws... without characterflaws, the characters would have no conflict, thus no story. i was saying that they are WEAK as in POORLY DESIGNED.

San
But honestly, if the show had a set of superhuman protagonists who could always win cause they are just so powerful would you want to watch it? every show has to have a weak point for their characters and this is one of the weak points for the character's of gundam. it breaks up their unity because they would pretty much create an ultimate fighting force if they were to unite. That would make for a really bad story line...
you just described Dragon Ball! :lol:

San
Now the hair, why does everyone always attack the hair in anime shows!?! Anime has a wierd way of doing the hair but i like it... it's not real, but then they don't mean it to look truely real. i'm sure that if the artists' really wanted to make the hair look real they could. I think that the animator's wanted to make the hair look that way...
that was a joke. i can name a million anime/manga where i HATE the way hair looks, but i don't let THAT stop me.^^ i am thinking that you understood it as a joke, hinse the following.......

San
FOR THE LOVE OF BOB LEAVE THE HAIR ALONE!!!
(not angry just... why?)

:lol: ...so i will take that as understanding that I was too joking.^^

San
Now we move onto the fact that giant mech's have been used over and over... that's because the people want them too...
yeah, i understand that some people just like seeing giant mechs running around {or flying} and fighting things, but these Mechs could ATLEAST have original designs... yeah, it's possible... though i personally don't consider them Mechs, look at Eva... now THAT is ------- original!^^

Ken
blah blah blah

thanks Ken^^ :lol:

Ado
Ken
Originally posted by Pengi_Ken-Ohki

Refuse to have ur opinions put on trial my ass. If u refuse then why'd u post in here?

I totaly agree.....

As to why I like Gundam.....The music :) hehe^^

Oh ya and the explosions !! ^^ :)

yeah, again... thanks Ken. Music and explosions... that's deep^^

KO! ..AGAIN!!
Oh ... my ... gosh ...

Pengie said something smart! ^^ [gives Pengie a badge of honor!!]

Thanks, Drizzten, for th' compliment. ^^ I was bored during Web Mastering ... ^^

And take yer time, Havok! ^^
yeah, the only way to keep Ken smart is by pretending you "hate" him.

i certainly hope your wait was worth it^^

KO! ..AGAIN!!
Yeah, I too think the animation quality in the majority of the episodes(about 99.8%) is bad. Compared to the animation in the final episode, and Endless Waltz, the rest of the series looks like poop, but hey, not all animes can keep consistant art going.
actually, the majority of anime out there has better artwork than Gundam... of course this goes by opinion, but eitherway, if you consider this truth, then you may realize that it's not that difficult to get nice artwork. especially when they have such a large budget as GW did^^ actually the most of your point have already been discussed, read it all again if you feel otherwise.^^


..

tsunami, your posts are offtopic and i can't believe one would be so.... ::sees eva2000 glaring at him:: okay.... i'm done.

Ken, i never admited to being "wrong," i just said that DrZepp did a great job with expressing his opinion so that i could feel it. as is the meaning of this thread. thank you all for your time and thoughts

[Drizzten]

Originally posted by heart havok
okay, you are all Gundam lovers, and i understand and respect that. i am not coming here to flame you, for you are more than rightful to support your opinion. I am simply here to ask one simple question, and state why i do not fathom the answers i've heard to date. this simple question is.................


Why the ---- Gundam!?!?!?!?
Hmmm...

{here's the deal}
i am going to come back here often, and read up not only on the replies to this post, but i am going to keep checking in on the other random posts. and if i can start seeing some intellectual replies to this thread and some threads rather than "Silly Quatre" and "Are the Gundam boys gay?" {note, i just picked randome titles}....

if you can do that, and prove to me that Gundam is more than just a bunch of Muscle in Mechs with a cheep story that is made to swoon girls then you win, and i will never speak bad of Gundam again.
...to me those kinda sounded like challenges, but I understand they weren't hostile challenges. /\/\ Thanks for the reply...I'll get to it at work tomorrow when i have some free time! :B:

[Ko Hakaisha]

Thanks for responding, Havok, and thanks for the compliment! ^^

Drizzten, it's time for you to reply!!

And I'll come up with a decent reply during Web Mastering tomorrow. ^^

[Drizzten]

Sorry about that. I came to work the next day, didn't get the time, and then the Boards went down. First time I've been on in...*counts fingers* geeeeeeeez :eek:

Mr. Havok:
... overall, the plot sounds good and there's nothing wrong with unoriginal Plots as long as they have unexpected subplots to originate it, but doesn't , and that doesn't play off well. {better than DB, none the less^^} there's very FEW subplots to give the main plot an uplifting twist of indifference, of course everything needs a simple main plot to suport it as a BACKBONE, but you don't have a human body without the complete skeleton. and then there are the characters and filler to create the muscular tissues and organs... it hasn't... or atleast i have yet to see any of that other skeleton in Gundam... i see a body with organs, tissues and a spine, and that's about it. the rest of the bones aren't exactly intact. thus, it is lacking.
You have a valid point. Gundam Wing focuses most of it's time on the larger conflicts and issues. The individual pilots are somewhat thought-provoking, but I'm only intrigued/interested in Heero and Wufei. It seems they have the least to say at times, but when they do speak, it reveals much more about themselves. Quatre is pretty predictable, except when his father died, Trowa is a super-spy, but like James Bond, we never get a chance to know him, and even though Duo is cool and says some awesome things, he also seems one-dimensional. Only Trowa, Quatre, and Heero get serious shots at back stories/subplots.

After re-reading everything, I know now you weren't out for the blood and tears of us GW fans. There's no reason to start a thread for that purpose, it just gets people pissed, and unfortunately, some people mis-interpreted your beginning statement. But, I have to admit, the *cough* :) strength of your wording is what got me prompted in the first place to respond. :D

Just a quick note...I finished SE:L today and you are justified in your praise, let me just say. I'll be in the SE:L thread 1st thing at work :B:

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Butler & Co
487 Freemantle dr
Sydney 2031

Dear mr Havok,
I am Ken's lawyer writing on his behalf regarding a recent condition he has developed. His eyes have severly degraded and now he can't see very well. In fact this morning he was hitting on a light post, altho I am told he does that anyway. In short sir we are sueing you for $25,000 for posting a post that was WAY too long for poor Ken's eyes. If you disagree with this then I sugest you get yourself a lawyer. We are currently printing out a copy of what you posted for submission in the courts, however our newspaper roll of paper has run out and Bob is just nicking down to the shops to get more. Good luck in Court Mr Havok and I hope you can deal with this in a mature and positive way.

Sincerly
Jack Daniels
Ken's attorney

[Ko Hakaisha]

Havok!!
there's very FEW subplots to give the main plot an uplifting twist of indifference, of course everything needs a simple main plot to suport it as a BACKBONE, but you don't have a human body without the complete skeleton. and then there are the characters and filler to create the muscular tissues and organs... it hasn't... or atleast i have yet to see any of that other skeleton in Gundam... i see a body with organs, tissues and a spine, and that's about it. the rest of the bones aren't exactly intact. thus, it is lacking.


If you want subplots, read the manga. ^^ If you want subplots, watch EW. If you want subplots, find out how the characters became the pilots they are today. If you want subplots, try to fully understand Operation Meteor. Those are just chocked full of subplots! And I haven't even gotten to finish the continuation of the series! O.o

This isn't a full reply, I'll do more hack replying later, but this is just something that smacked me in the face. ^^

[Edited by Ko Hakaisha on 08-12-2000 at 04:39 AM]

[Drizzten]

Mr. Havok
seriously, i know it was a good scene, but what's it worth if you can predict it all?
Most things produced for mass consumption are predictable to a degree. From the beginning of GW, I was pretty sure who was going to win in the end. It never felt like a Lain, Eva, or Escaflowne where the makers were going to drop a mindbomb on you partway through the series, the kind that makes you sit still after viewing...wondering just what the hell you were watching. It's the (mostly) unknown journey to the (mostly) predictable end that I liked. It's a good vs. bad anime at it's very core, and usually good wins these things.

Mr. Havok
that's a shame, if you're a fan of any Gundam, i highly recommend the original, i personally think that it is much better than the newer. ESPECIALLY because it was all fresher ideas back then.
Well, by that rationale, everything produced back in the 60's and 70's is better than their counterparts for today. Recurring themes are something we all have to put up with until someone comes along and gives the finger to the established way of doing things. Then that person is copied, if successful, and the cycle repeats. The martial arts/ass-kicker/blood-and-guts genre is really bad at this. They probably have more cheap unoriginal anime than any other. To be honest, I think the GW mech designs look fine. Each one looks different enough to tell them apart, each one has a specific ability they were designed around, and they get upgrades as time goes along. But, I've never watched Macross/Patlabor/Robotech, so I can't compare them. As my first exposure to a serious Mech anime, GW works great for me.

[buddman]

i take it my defense was not intelligent enough to get a response

[heerogf]

i respect everybody opinion on stuff, even havok, but people, don't u realize that this is turing into a war, and members are starting to dislike each other just because other doesn't like one show :( animeboard is friendly and nice, and everybody is suppose to love everybody :) and if u think that i'm crazy, please just continue on with ur GW debate and ignore this post

[destroyor]

Wow this is long ... My eyes are SOOOO tired. :yawn:

Well, guess I shouldn't complain since I had post some very long post myself.

I completely agree that eva is much better than GW, but I still think GW is a good anime. Sorry, but I don't have the strength and intelligent:homer: to DISCUSS it with you.

Very tired ... need some rest ... :sleep:

Have some beer :beer: people!

[heerogf]

good for u destroyer :up:
let join together and have beer everyone and be happy :beer:

[heerogf]

WOW!! :eek: i can't believe it!! this thread haven't been reply in 4 days

[Drizzten]

I guess the air died out of the arguement. Probably better this way.

[Ko Hakaisha]

Hm, darn ... I was hoping Havok would still be able to reply. [snaps fingers]

[destroyor]

I just notice something people!
This thread is title "Why the @*&# Gundam?", but I think it really should be "Why the @*&# Gundam Wing?" because all the time We were "discussing" (swearing sword included) GW instead of all the gundam series. If Mr.Havok wants to know "Why the @*&# Gundam?", he should asks himself why he watch the original series and think they are "original", "good" and "speak-to-him".

Just a thought ...

Have some beer :beer: people. Hope Mr.havok wouldn't say I am missing the point... :teleport:

[heerogf]

hmmmm :dodgy: good point...

[San]

Yea, i think that the argument is dead...

But that's not a bad thing neccisarilly as it was fun while it lasted.

Hehehe just finished the series.. . i couldn't get one episode...

Endless waltz is an upgrade on the storyline, and i think they pulled that off really well actually. same character's and same apathetic Hiro, but hey... we can't have it all... anyway, got to go...

katch you later.

[heart havok]

Drizztenineightsevenixfiveourthreewone
After re-reading everything, I know now you weren't out for the blood and tears of us GW fans.
you REread everything? wow. that's amazing. thank you very much for puting that much thought into my words.

Drizztenineightsevenixfiveourthreewone
There's no reason to start a thread for that purpose, it just gets people pissed, and unfortunately, some people mis-interpreted your beginning statement. But, I have to admit, the *cough* :) strength of your wording is what got me prompted in the first place to respond. :D
exactly. and i even censored it for eva2000, all the little-uns and so that people WOULDN"T think that i was trying to take a stab at the heart of it. but of course there ends up to be about 45% flaming me, 45% posting away pointless things just so that they are "involved" and 10% actually carrying on the discussion with intelligable replies. {{you know who you are}}

Drizztenineightsevenixfiveourthreewone
Just a quick note...I finished SE:L today and you are justified in your praise, let me just say. I'll be in the SE:L thread 1st thing at work :B:
YES!!! :B:

[keera chan]

Well okay first off i havent had time to read all the posts but from what i see there is alot of different opinoions well here is mine and please no one take offence
Gundam wing I liked it alot i liked the story line and maybe that was because i havent ever seen one that had so much in it ( i was Brought up in Scotland where all we get is Disney and WB ) I liked the drama and the emotion
the animation wasnt great but hey at least it wasnt Sailor moon ( no offence to anyone who likes SM ) I think that The emotions that each Character goes thru is kinda cool and for once It isnt so clear THere isnt always a Clear good and bad in real life and it is good to see that depicted in an Anime, I have not seen that many other animes i have seen Escaflowne ( SUbbed ) and Slayers Dirty Pair Flash and GUNSMITH CATS and i liked all of them i have also seen A few of the PEACOCK King ones and godness knows what else that i have rented and i liked them all the story lines are interesting and fun thats what i liked about Gundam Wing and if someone dosent like that that is fine but really to sit ther and take the total ---- out of it and totaly rip apart some one elses answer is in my view a little harsh sorry but i feel it is well bye for now sorry about the long reply
yours keera-chan