Not too sure anymore...

[Unlikely Fan]

Has anybody else besides me gotten the impression that Bleach, both anime AND manga have REALLY been sucking recently?

Reason for the Anime sucking:
There is absolutely no point of having fillers in this part of the story; doesn't seem to flow well.

For the Manga:
SPOILERS BEYOND!!!!!!!!!



This Hueco Mundo Arc is taking WAY too long.
There was too much jumping around from person to person in the early and middle part of the current arc.
Since the Ichigo vs. Grimmjow fight, it hasn't jumped around but we don't know what happened to Rukia, Chad, Renji, or Ishida.


I'm starting to think that Bleach is getting to "DragonballZ-ish" where you have characters that just keep getting more powerful despite any plot advancements.

Thoughts?

[orochi X]

You're not alone, this current arc has been an absolute bore. How did we get from something awesome (Soul Society) to something as mediocre as this?

Grimmjow fight was such a let down, one chapter Ichigo does an attack, next chapter it's Grimmjow's turn, next Ichigo, and so on and so forth.

[Kaneda]

im trying not to read the spoilers but i am in agreement with the topic. personally, i dont find much enjoyment out of manga, so i was really anticipating the new arc and for the plot to finally get back on topic.
but what happened?
the first thing that really threw me for a loop was when they started flying dragon ball z style. no explanation or anything. how helpful would that have been when they were trying to cross the wall into soul society? or when they were trying to rescue rukia? i just dont get it.
every time i see ichigo fight i think of the battle he had with the 10th captain and how strong he appeared at the end of that fight. then i think of all of the crazyness that usually surrounded him turning into hollow mode. like, swinging his sword around by its cloth wrapping and stuff. but every episode it seems ichigo gets weaker and weaker. now, he can supposedly control his hollow and hes getting his ass kicked by that girl. he is the main character and for the last month they have only givin him mb 4 minutes of screen time.
either they have gotten way to lax in drawing the fight sceens or they are trying to save up for something.
when is that something supposed to get here? the last thing i wanted out of bleach was filler!

[SamIam]

every time i see ichigo fight i think of the battle he had with the 10th captain and how strong he appeared at the end of that fight. then i think of all of the crazyness that usually surrounded him turning into hollow mode. like, swinging his sword around by its cloth wrapping and stuff. but every episode it seems ichigo gets weaker and weaker. now, he can supposedly control his hollow and hes getting his ass kicked by that girl. he is the main character and for the last month they have only givin him mb 4 minutes of screen time.
either they have gotten way to lax in drawing the fight sceens or they are trying to save up for something.
when is that something supposed to get here? the last thing i wanted out of bleach was filler!

Ahhh .... it appears to be the dreaded Dragonball Effect ... well more accurately the Franchise Effect ... which can happen in either the Manga or Anime - where for greed or to buy time (to figure out what comes next) the writer puts in the common stopgap of shifting perspective. Thus an apparently strong character in say, the first arc is thrust into a far more competetive arena in Arc 2 ... (the old big fish in the small pond goes to sea) ... so, the intention IMO is to show that while the main character IS stronger than before, he is now more evenly matched with the next level of opponent. Unfortunately, the net effect if done wrong is that the protagonist can often look weaker without an effective reference. If anime history is any indicator, the writer and or studios should pay special attention to the potential length of a series ... because pacing then becomes a critical issue.

... but I suppose its not as easy as all that, if one considers the writers dilemna of needing to create a loyal fanbase who crave action (in order for the series to merit a second arc) ... with a follow-up storyline that "outdoes" the first Arc (to conclude successfully or to merit a 3rd Arc ad infinitum).

Sam

[Kusunagi]

Its still interesting to me, though its slowly loosing its flare. I don't see how they can keep up with this pace and hold a story line. Ichigo cannot fight again unless his hollow takes over fully. Even if someone beats Notoria, Ulq should be free soon, what then?

[SamIam]

Its still interesting to me, though its slowly loosing its flare. I don't see how they can keep up with this pace and hold a story line. Ichigo cannot fight again unless his hollow takes over fully. Even if someone beats Notoria, Ulq should be free soon, what then?

... well, like Naruto, one viable possibility is that a new paradigm will emerge in terms of either power level or something akin to "plane of existence". I have not progressed as far in the Manga as the majority of you all, but it seems that there is the stairstep progression in the form of dimensional planes ... Earth, Soul Society, Heuco Mondo? ... this then begs the question is there anything else?

Note that its quite common for the writer to attempt to set up the audience by reinforcing existing assumptions that were established early in the series ... much in the same way that most people were fooled in the murder mystery 10 little Indians by Hitchcock ... (the killer faked his death early on in the movie, and thus eliminated himself from the pool of suspects).

Thus in a series like Bleach, the writer cultivates certain "laws" of the Soul Universe ... in order to blindside the viewer with a surprise revelation that totally changes the rules ... furthermore, this revelation can easily be tied to the element that is need to push the protagonist past a seemingly insurmountable plateau of some kind (more power? missing technique? lost information? etc.)

... which could go something like ... the discovery of an ancient historical tome that hints of something called the "oversoul" or "unity" that exists beyond the likes of the Soul Society (perhaps the SS is a lost outpost or somesuch that has lost its historical context) ... now, this "oversoul" which amounts to a plane where the departed "good" souls become one in the "unity" (shamelessly stealing from NGE musings) ... and that if one could make a spritual connection with this "universe" ... the individual (read Ichigo) could tap into a virtually unlimited reserve of soul energy ... in fact, that would explain his enormous stamina to begin with - where he later finds out that he has been an extension of this oversoul from the beginning - to be sent into the Soul Society to ultimately bring them back into the fold ... and in order to make is "insertion" undetected, his memory was removed in order to set him up as - what appeared to the viewer, to be a normal human in an abnormal family.

... what about the hollows? Likewise they are the "lost ones" outside of the Oversoul much like the model of Pandemonium in Miltons Paradise Lost i.e. hell.

Sam

[ACE2001]

All I can say is that I'm glad the fight between Ichigo and Grimmjow is over! It was getting quite repetitive. Sadly enough, Ichigo has to fight ANOTHER strong espada....How in the world will he make it to Aizen at this rate? I mean, he barely beat Grimmjow and he still hasn't even taken on the top 3 strongest warriors yet.

[SamIam]

All I can say is that I'm glad the fight between Ichigo and Grimmjow is over! It was getting quite repetitive. Sadly enough, Ichigo has to fight ANOTHER strong espada....How in the world will he make it to Aizen at this rate? I mean, he barely beat Grimmjow and he still hasn't even taken on the top 3 strongest warriors yet.

Your description is very similar to the classic series Fist of the North Star ... in that series, it was common for Kenshiro to almost die from a battle with a stronger opponent, only to become stronger in the long run. In fact, the story seems to imply that he actually comes back from the dead for revenge and justice!

[John Faulkner]

Your description is very similar to the classic series Fist of the North Star ... in that series, it was common for Kenshiro to almost die from a battle with a stronger opponent, only to become stronger in the long run. In fact, the story seems to imply that he actually comes back from the dead for revenge and justice!
I saw this hilarious fight between Kenshiro and someone from the Southern school: it was on top of some pyramid structure and they both flew at each other with fists chopping at about 100 chops per second. Then I saw a few clips of Juuza vs Roah. No idea what the plot was, but that Juuza had some courage.

[SamIam]

I saw this hilarious fight between Kenshiro and someone from the Southern school: it was on top of some pyramid structure and they both flew at each other with fists chopping at about 100 chops per second. Then I saw a few clips of Juuza vs Roah. No idea what the plot was, but that Juuza had some courage.

I guess for its time ... it was "the franchise" and the precurser to the likes of Dragonball ... amazingly production for spinoffs and ovas continue to this day!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fist_of_the_North_Star

Plot overview

In the year 199X, the world was engaged in a nuclear war on a global scale. The earth's surface became devoid of vegetation, the seas evaporated and civilization was thrown into chaos. Life became a battle for supplies of uncontaminated food and water, where the strong survive by preying on the weak. However, one man vows to make a difference. Kenshiro is the successor of the art of Hokuto Shinken, a 1,800 year-old assassination style that is so deadly, it can only be passed down from one master to a chosen son. Kenshiro uses his skills and knowledge to protect the innocent from the bloodthirsty gangs that threaten their survival. Throughout the course of the series, Kenshiro meets several allies and rivals, most of whom are also trained in various martial arts styles.

The manga begins with Kenshiro's quest to reclaim his fiancee Yuria, who was taken from him by his former friend Shin, a master of the rival Nanto Seiken (南斗聖拳, Nanto Seiken? "Sacred Fist of the South Star") style.[10] The story later evolves into a successorship struggle between Ken and his three older brothers, who were also trained in the Hokuto Shinken style. Raoh, the eldest of the brothers, has taken on the mantle of Ken-Ō (拳王, Ken-Ō? lit. "Fist King"), a conqueror who uses his power to restore order through force and tyranny. A major sub-plot is also introduced in the form of an internal conflict within the Nanto school between its six grand masters, the Nanto Roku Seiken (南斗六聖拳, Nanto Roku Seiken? "Six Sacred Fists of the South Star").

After Raoh's death, the story skips several years. Peace and order has slowly returned to the world, but the return of a civilized world has also brought forth with it the division of social classes. The evil Jakō has taken over the Celestial Empire after the disappearance of the true Empress, turning it into a corrupt force that seeks to extend its regime through oppression, with the Gento Kōken (元斗皇拳, Gento Kōken? "The Imperial Fist of the Original Star") masters forced to do his evil bidding. Kenshiro aids his former sidekicks Bat and Lin, now the leaders of the rebel Hokuto Army, in overthrowing Jakō. But after Jakō is defeated, Lin is kidnapped and taken overseas to the Land of Asura (修羅の国, Shura no Kuni?), the birthplace of the Hokuto Shinken style. The Land of Asura has become a war-torn nation now ruled by the three Rashō (羅将, Rashō? General of Asura), masters of the forbidden Hokuto Ryūken (北斗琉拳, Hokuto Ryūken? "North Star Gem Fist") style, a branch of the original Hokuto Family (北斗宗家, Hokuto Sōke?) along with Hokuto Shinken. After Kenshiro defeats Kaioh, the leader of the Rashō, he returns to his country to train Raoh's orphaned son, Ryū, as the next Hokuto Shinken successor.

[John Faulkner]

How about that, I was typing in that Shakira thread and it was deleted as I pressed reply! Here's the reply in full glory:

To raynebc: "Meaningfulness" is not really a criteria here ...

To SamIam: I'm not a prolific poster by any means, but here, I have the relative output rate of Shakespeare on steroids. Must be one great big ------- effort for some people to type. :)

EDIT: And SamIam has the relative output rate of 5 Shakespeares on steroids ..... :)

[Takahashi]

I dropped this anime when Ichigo confronted ulgiurra(or something like that) in heuco mundo, almost a year later and I just figured what the heck lets give it another go and I find myself in a deja vu like situations where you go wtf?!? I have seen this before, as ichigo was about to get sliced by ulgi again apparantly nothing has happened in between that is of any significant. I had to double check if I had downloaded a fake or something.:rolleyes: