Naruto Shippuuden Movie 2: Kizuna

[Kusunagi]

Prepare to be teased.

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=567QJWDF

[DraniX]

You didn't hear it from me, but Ken's ex? She's totally Asian. Like Chinese or something.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Thats what the mistress is for....

[DraniX]

I'm afraid I don't follow. Don't you like Asian chicks?

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Dating one got me over them.

[DraniX]

That's odd. Dating one for the first time got me into them.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

I'd probably still be more attracted to asian women than other women, but its more of a genetics thing rather than say, an attraction to culture. You know, less hair, lighter unblemished skin, hair of a pure shade etc.

[DraniX]

You do realize though that only a minute fraction of the many and varied people falling under the label "Asian" actually fit the description you just put forward. Actually, what does "less hair" of a "pure shade" look like? I'm thinking...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/Griphix/da-vinci-code-4.jpg

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Yes, I do realise that. I did mention that 'asian' is no longer a primary appeal of mine right? Any woman with those qualities is attractive to me.

As for "less hair", well, if she doesn't shave her legs will I notice? If the answer is "yes" then she doesn't have the genetics for "less hair".

As for pure shade, well, I guess I just meant to say purely black. People like me don't even have a consistent hair colour. Some random strands are red. My head hair is mouse brown but my facial hair is practically black. Other hair types, they change a lot over time. Asian hair just seems to be either black, grey or white.

[DraniX]

Um... have you never seen Japanese pr0n? It's a chia pet down under, mate. As for consistent hair color...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/Griphix/asian-bob-black-blonde-color-01_fs.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/Griphix/124_main.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/Griphix/1345153980_l.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/Griphix/1509690176_58d333f7de_o.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/Griphix/hair.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/Griphix/n15919199_32918331_217.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/Griphix/palty_mihimarugt070320_001.jpg

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

We should probably end this here. There is nothing you can say that I don't already know or understand. Yes, there are half breed, exceptions etc. Did I mention that I don't have a particularly strong asian fetish anymore? Im pretty sure I did.


Sorry fellow Naruto fans but Shippuden isn't delivering. Naruto is still a complete ------- moron and I'm getting sick of these goddamn sappy moments where Naruto 'discovers' that someone else is alone and hurting.

Newsflash, EVERYONE is alone, EVERYONE is hurting. Oh fine, bring in your exceptions. Point is, Naruto is a ------- retard and would have no ninja value if not for Kyuubi.

[DraniX]

We should probably end this here. There is nothing you can say that I don't already know or understand. Yes, there are half breed, exceptions etc. Did I mention that I don't have a particularly strong asian fetish anymore? Im pretty sure I did.

Actually, those were the result of hair dyes, not mixed parentage. Come on, man. I'm not actually trying to patronize you, you just make it so easy. XD

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Middle top and bottom both have hair colours Ive seen on asians who had it naturally. Obviously I knew the others were dye jobs.

[DraniX]

Or SKINJOBS.

[ACE2001]

We should probably end this here. There is nothing you can say that I don't already know or understand. Yes, there are half breed, exceptions etc. Did I mention that I don't have a particularly strong asian fetish anymore? Im pretty sure I did.


Sorry fellow Naruto fans but Shippuden isn't delivering. Naruto is still a complete ------- moron and I'm getting sick of these goddamn sappy moments where Naruto 'discovers' that someone else is alone and hurting.

Newsflash, EVERYONE is alone, EVERYONE is hurting. Oh fine, bring in your exceptions. Point is, Naruto is a ------- retard and would have no ninja value if not for Kyuubi.

:lol: I actually haven't watched a single episode of Shippuden but I've read that most of the Naruto fans aren't too happy with Shippuden right now. I'm reading the manga where things are getting really interesting. I never thought that Itachi was a "good guy".

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

The manga is free of some of the problems the anime has. For instance, anime has lots of filler eps and flashbacks. WAY too many flashbacks.
But the depth of Naruto's stupidity is getting tiring. More accurately, Im getting too old for anime where characters need everything explained.

[HolyWhippet]

The explanations aren't for the characters but for the viewers. If the characters all knew what was going on the audience would be left wondering WTF.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Yes, I know what exposition is. However, there is such a thing as too much. In the case of Naruto, EVERYTHING has to be explained.

I watched the Shippuden movie last night. Wow, they're not even trying anymore. Introduce a character that can see fate and acts like she doesn't care about the lives of her underlings. You could've swapped some o the animation for signs that say stuff like "Naruto gets angry here" "Naruto bonds with someone who will die so he can get angry, here" "Naruto makes an inspirational speech here".

Supposedly this ghost army threatens the entire world. Yet we only see a couple of Leaf village and 1 sand village ninja? Yeh, that is taking the threat seriously.

[SamIam]

Newsflash, EVERYONE is alone, EVERYONE is hurting. Oh fine, bring in your exceptions. Point is, Naruto is a ------- retard and would have no ninja value if not for Kyuubi.

... actually, one of the major themes IMO IS that "EVERYONE is alone, EVERYONE is hurting."

... and yes, you can consider Naruto to be a retard in the sense of Rocky Balboa, Sannosuke Sagara, or Ben Grimm of the Fantastic Four who said something to the effect of ... "I must be too stupid to know when to give up ... educate me".

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Yes but he is such a ------- moron he seems to think that there are unique cases.
Hell, Im sick of watching his little "omg, everyone didnt love me" scenes whenever he sees someone else being overtly lonely.
From the Chouji flashbacks, it seems pretty apparent that Naruto wasn't anywhere near as lonely as most ninja from non-Konoha villages. He at least got to play with the other kids, even if he went home alone.

If he really cared about going home alone, he'd have asked a few questions about his goddamn parents already. He is too selfish to do that though. Too concerned with how alone he is, and doesnt seem to give a damn about anything else. Just another stupid bratty attention whore.

[SamIam]

Too concerned with how alone he is, and doesnt seem to give a damn about anything else. Just another stupid bratty attention whore.

Yes, I would agree with this as the narrative mode - through the eyes of Naruto ... which is particularly apt, in that the child sees the world as centering around themselves.

Yes, also to the overall description of being a stupid bratty attention whore ... but once again, I think this is intentional in that the story itself deals more with the human condition of being social animals and the intrinsic process by which we learn and grow by interacting with others. So in essense, Naruto is like the wild "wolf" boy who has to be integrated back into society as a human.

I am guessing here, but I think that the reason why Naruto is such a "retard" ... is because an overly sensitive and or intelligent child would not have weathered his tragedy in quite the same way ... in fact, we have a very convenient model of that in Sasuke.

So in a sense, Naruto symbolizes the redemption of the downtrodden and less than perfect by means of hard work, determination and a little luck. In this regard, I see the story being pointedly Japanese in morals.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

You're probably right there. I met a guy once who had 2 children and was a grown man, yet was treated like a 5yo by a boss who wouldnt even think of trying that tone with me. The reason? He was an optimistic simpleton.

Still, Naruto isn't growing or learning at all. He is just going about sticking his nose in other people's business and forcing his own need for attention onto them. The movie was a great example. He forced the priestess to reveal her feelings just because he was too stupid and simple to realise that not everybody is a goddamn extrovert.

I realise that Japan may be lacking in individuals and people who will buck tradition and manners in an energetic way, but as a westerner I'm rather bored with the idea of yet another self centered entitlement type with no freaking sense of decorum.
Seriously, I almost want to see a Naruto clone in which the director kills the moron off to make a point. Naruto isnt even a hard worker. He is like a 5yo with ADD. Always wanting the short cut. Always wanting the easy way. He can't even keep his goddamn mouth shut or suppress his presence. He has to do everything in the most amateur least polished, least worked at way.
Surely you've had students who didnt want to go through the hard effort of absorbing a lesson, and instead decided to "put their spirit into it" right before due time. Surely you did not consider these students to be more inspiring, "hard" workers compared to the slow and steady types who actually made a consistent effort (Sakura, Sasuke etc).

[SamIam]

Seriously, I almost want to see a Naruto clone in which the director kills the moron off to make a point. Naruto isnt even a hard worker. He is like a 5yo with ADD. Always wanting the short cut. Always wanting the easy way. He can't even keep his goddamn mouth shut or suppress his presence. He has to do everything in the most amateur least polished, least worked at way.
Surely you've had students who didnt want to go through the hard effort of absorbing a lesson, and instead decided to "put their spirit into it" right before due time. Surely you did not consider these students to be more inspiring, "hard" workers compared to the slow and steady types who actually made a consistent effort (Sakura, Sasuke etc).

True, without question, in the real world, the steady responsible types, along with the motivated and talented individuals will come out on top ... but one lesson that seems to come up often in Naruto (as in real life) is that in order to truly understand a person, you must penetrate beyond the superficial facade in order to see these individuals for what they really are ... or for who they really are.

The lesson being, "we are what circumstances made us to be ..." The underlying realization being that all babies are born as blank slates ... what they become (in part) is left to chance and circumstance. The hope for the teacher here, is that by understanding the student in terms of where they came from, it is sometimes possible to profoundly change their behaviors by using the right motivators and relevant instruction ... or perhaps, something as simple as being given a chance.

... Naruto as with most anime of the genre is about symbols and abstracted messages ... these messages also tend to be exaggerated for clarity to the intended age group or demographic.

This being the case, Naruto has to be "larger than life" in his actions, or in this case, dumber, more stubborn, luckier, more durable, angst ridden etc. You see, a normal person or nearly so, would be in a word, boring.

... and so, to further liven things up, the introduction of 3 distinct personality arch types ... with the requisite love/hate, and various types of emotional triangles ...

The conventional - Sakura
The aloof prodigy - Sasuke
The unkillable idiot - Naruto

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Except its polluting up the storyline. Naruto cannot be Hokage at this rate because his grasp of people and of the world around him is below that of my niece. He has absolutely no political ability whatsoever. At best, he'd be a pawn for for those old people who keep pushing Tsunade around.

We've had 200+ episodes of moron..when do we get adult?

[SamIam]

Except its polluting up the storyline. Naruto cannot be Hokage at this rate because his grasp of people and of the world around him is below that of my niece. He has absolutely no political ability whatsoever. At best, he'd be a pawn for for those old people who keep pushing Tsunade around.

We've had 200+ episodes of moron..when do we get adult?

Yes, but how much time has elapsed in Naruto's world? The show starts off with him at what 12 years of age? and by the 2nd arc he is about 15?

How wise and experienced does a person become in a few years? Let alone someone like Naruto.

Lets face it, those three are young teenagers ... think back to your experiences during the same period and what can you conclude about acquired wisdom?

... but I do see your point in story pacing though ... 75eps per character "year"? That could be a problem.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Age shouldn't matter. If Chouji can be a jounin then we can't apply our ideas of adulthood age onto the characters.
There are plenty of instances where children have been used as soldiers. Im pretty sure the ones who didnt learn to keep their mouths shut would've been the first to go.

As an example of Naruto being needlessly noisy, see the scenes where they're in Orichimarou's lair searching for Sasuke. They're quiet for most of the way, then Naruto yells "Sasuke!!!!". He often does ---- like that. How can a character like that really be headed for Hokage? And more disturbing for me is the fact that he primarily wants it for the same reasons a girl might want prom queen. Only hokage isnt a prom queen role.
Why should Naruto get it? He is always on about fate being fake and all, but we all knew from the early eps that this dipshit would get it, no matter how many superior shinobi came along as potentials for the job.

[HolyWhippet]

self centered entitlement type with no freaking sense of decorum.
Seriously, I almost want to see a Naruto clone in which the director kills the moron off to make a point. Naruto isnt even a hard worker. He is like a 5yo with ADD. Always wanting the short cut. Always wanting the easy way. He can't even keep his goddamn mouth shut or suppress his presence. He has to do everything in the most amateur least polished, least worked at way.
Surely you've had students who didnt want to go through the hard effort of absorbing a lesson, and instead decided to "put their spirit into it" right before due time. Surely you did not consider these students to be more inspiring, "hard" workers compared to the slow and steady types who actually made a consistent effort (Sakura, Sasuke etc).

Are we talking about the same Naruto here? The early episodes make it clear that he is trying hard, when they set out on their first major mission Naruto is unhappy because he's been practicing hard but doesn't seem to be getting any stronger.

When he's trying to learn the rasengan he exhausts himself each day trying to get it done.

His problem is that he isn't particularly great at book learning. He learns by doing and by being put into situations where he has to think of something or die. The rasengan training is a perfect example of this. When Jiraiya asks him what he saw when he used the technique, all Naruto can work out is that there was some kind of rotation going on. When he's asked to do the training steps which are all physical, Naruto throws himself at it 100%. Yes, he does ask for hints, but unlike a slacker he doesn't try for 5 minutes then throws it into the "too hard" basket.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

So explain his reaction to needing to learn elemental chakra manipulation? Or his overreliance on Kyuubi.

Naruto's natural chakra level is above someone like Sakura, yet he is so horrific at learning and understanding that even with kyuubi he can barely match most of his peers (most of whom have similar chakra levels to his natural chakra).

Naruto relies on Kyuubi and dumb luck. He is just about the perfect definition of a person who relies on fate and deus ex machina to get through the world. Meanwhile those who actually try (such as Lee) become 'minor' characters who just arent as gosh darned retarded as Naruto. (I think Lee is a better Naruto, but he has fuzzy eyebrows and great discipline. Naruto reminds me of some ADD spoilt brat who runs around smearing chocolate all over the place while his fat dumb bitch mother smiles at him warmly and says to everyone around who will listen: "awww, isnt he just so adorable? You know, the teachers said he is very smart for his age!". Naruto's selling point originally was "awww, poor diddums" and worked great with the typical guilt trip marketing. After this long though, he has built more friends and recognition than almost any other shinobi. He is now in the limelight probably stealing attention of upcoming Shinobi who also need recognition.
There is no more guilt or sadness about Naruto's situation. So why are we still behaving like he is a little child who is lonely? His peers are entering adulthood and like the rest of us who had to face those changes, "playtime is over".

God, even when the attack is just some kind of kiss technique, he is saved by ------- Kyuubi.

[SamIam]

Age shouldn't matter. If Chouji can be a jounin then we can't apply our ideas of adulthood age onto the characters.
There are plenty of instances where children have been used as soldiers. Im pretty sure the ones who didnt learn to keep their mouths shut would've been the first to go.

Yes, except for the teensy fact that the show is called "Naruto" and by plot necessity, he is for the duration of the show most likely "unkillable". :D

and ...

Chouji = Brilliant/Genius
Naruto = Idiot and or slow learner

Next question ...


As an example of Naruto being needlessly noisy, see the scenes where they're in Orichimarou's lair searching for Sasuke. They're quiet for most of the way, then Naruto yells "Sasuke!!!!". He often does ---- like that. How can a character like that really be headed for Hokage? And more disturbing for me is the fact that he primarily wants it for the same reasons a girl might want prom queen. Only hokage isnt a prom queen role.


True, but rarely if ever does an individual START OFF with the most mature and idealistic reason for doing anything. Do a quick analysis of the major characters and their initial motivations are far from pure

Sasuke = Revenge and Anger
Sakura = A crush and Conformity
Naruto = Respect and Acceptance

Hmmmm ... Naruto's motivation? Is it really that bad when compared to the others?


Why should Naruto get it? He is always on about fate being fake and all, but we all knew from the early eps that this dipshit would get it, no matter how many superior shinobi came along as potentials for the job.

Haha ...

Remember its not how you start out, but rather how you finish ... and Naruto has the uncanny ability to literally outlast and out endure the competition. Others often start out with greater aptitude and or better circumstances, but Naruto, to stupid to see these things as insurmountable obstacles ... bulls his way through them as only he could ...

... and if he does become Hokage, he will undoubtably do it as no one else has before ... his own way, loud, obnoxious, egotistical, unthinking, impulsive and yet, big hearted enough to take on the whole world and beat the odds.

That is Naruto.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

He is the George W Bush (II) of the ninja world. Mark my words!

[SamIam]

He is the George W Bush (II) of the ninja world. Mark my words!

Nah, GWB II is just clueless period ... Naruto is clueless but with absolute determination and utter fearlessness (probably more due to ignorance than actual bravery, but the line blurs in the case of Naruto)

[HolyWhippet]

So explain his reaction to needing to learn elemental chakra manipulation? Or his overreliance on Kyuubi.

Naruto's natural chakra level is above someone like Sakura, yet he is so horrific at learning and understanding that even with kyuubi he can barely match most of his peers (most of whom have similar chakra levels to his natural chakra).


His natural chakra level is actually quite exceptional. A fair bit of it is tied up suppressing the chakra of the demon fox.

He needed to learn elemental manipulation for two reasons. a) They would have taught it to him in school and as I've said he doesn't do book learning very well. b) They had to explain it to the audience somehow.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

No I mean Naruto responds to long training times the way a stereotypical American would respond to food waiting times.


"Awwww, 60 seconds? But I want it nowwwwwwww"

I understand that it was in part due to his desire to hurry up and seek out Sasuke, but his need to seek out Asuma could also be seen as a desire to take shortcuts.

Naruto is not a hard worker. He is an endurer. I think that way I probably have something in common with him. So lazy that he wont do it right the first time, instead figuring it is easier to endure the pain of a harsher lesson later.

[SamIam]

Naruto is not a hard worker. He is an endurer. I think that way I probably have something in common with him. So lazy that he wont do it right the first time, instead figuring it is easier to endure the pain of a harsher lesson later.

When it comes to hard work, Naruto is a sprinter at need - which can garner impressive results, but generally, he works haphazardly at best ... often distracted by incidentals.

He's like Sanosuke or perhaps the Hulk in that the absolute worst thing you could do is to corner him or get him really mad.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Only because the writer will write in some bullshit save method. Like unsealing super saiyan mode.
His defeat of Chouji was handled pretty well. Rather than give him an entirely new move "in the moment" it focused on his determination and animal-like intelligence. Although, had he not been naruto, he wouldnt have been saved by the unlimited goddamn chakra again.

Actually I believe Yamato recently chastised him for only ever relying on Kyuubi. Maybe we'll see an improvement soon.

[HolyWhippet]

Only because the writer will write in some bullshit save method. Like unsealing super saiyan mode.
His defeat of Chouji was handled pretty well. Rather than give him an entirely new move "in the moment" it focused on his determination and animal-like intelligence. Although, had he not been naruto, he wouldnt have been saved by the unlimited goddamn chakra again.


What defeat of Chouji? The only two other leaf guys he's beaten are Kiba (in the preliminaries) and Neji in the tournament.

[Pengi_Ken-Ohki]

Yeh my bad. Switch all references to Chouji with Neji.