who does alice think of when she...

[The cruel angel's thesis]

yowza! I was a bit laid back before that part, but actually showing a girl masturbating! yeezbaklatoh! I was shocked!

[Petit Charat]

I know ^_^. I was like, Whoa! At least it wasn't graphic. I was watching the subbed, and the dialogue wasn't graphic or anything, but still... I guess that is how you get a 16+ rating.

[Yui_Reborn]

Well, to answer your question, it's obviously "that Teacher". That part didn't really bother me, I was surprised but I think they handled it really tastefully.

[Drizzten]

It is a way of showing a person at one of the most vunerable moments getting a RUDE surprise. I thought it was done perfectly. Yeah, there's no way that'll get aired on free TV, but it wasn't that bad. :)

[Commander Fuyutsuki]

Instead of starting another thread on Alice I'll askmy question here.

SPOILERS

When Lain erased her existence from everyones memories Alice seemed to have some residual memories of Lain. The first thing she thought of was mailing Lain, but then it seemed like she forgot who she was mailing. Then later in life Alice recognises Lain. She doesnt fully remember who Lain is, could Lain maybe not have fully erased Alice's memory? I mean Alice was like her only friend. What your opinion?

[Ura]

I thought it was so that Alice wouldn't let herself repeat her past mistakes and also i'd say because she was really her only friend or anyone who stuck her head out for her.

[Drizzten]

Maybe Lain just wanted the satisfaction of someone remembering her, even if not completely.

[Draco]

I think lain didn't fully erase arisu's memory, but lain is always watching out for her at the end

[cool2burn]

but my question is what exactly was lain was she the god?? after all she did have some pretty awesome powers like wiping everyones memories and traveling through time what do you all think of this

"dammit what is she???"

[Draco]

i thnk shes like a self aware network admin prog that watches over the wired,

[Drizzten]

Lain is like a god. She can essentially change history, and by changing history she can change the present. Power over your memory is a frightening power. What if you woke up one morning and totally forgot about Animeboards and anime? If you looked at the episode covers and "remembered" how much you thought anime was a disgusting and childish art form? If you just saw all the anime stuff around your house, made a face, and tossed it?

[random1377]

Originally posted by Commander Fuyutsuki
Instead of starting another thread on Alice I'll askmy question here.

SPOILERS

When Lain erased her existence from everyones memories Alice seemed to have some residual memories of Lain. The first thing she thought of was mailing Lain, but then it seemed like she forgot who she was mailing. Then later in life Alice recognises Lain. She doesnt fully remember who Lain is, could Lain maybe not have fully erased Alice's memory? I mean Alice was like her only friend. What your opinion?


She doesn't fully erase everyone's memory. there is kind of an "echo" for lack of a better word, of the old world. Everyone has a really vauge memory of it. Remember her false father looks at the empty seat at the dinner table? like he felt like there should be someone there, but could not think of who. also the Deus guy wandering down the street (can't think of his name) stops to look at the two former thug guys, like he feels he knows them, before walking on. In hardware terms, if you erase a hard drive the data is still there, just innacessible. this is KIND of the same.

[Commander Fuyutsuki]

Originally posted by cool2burn
but my question is what exactly was lain was she the god?? "dammit what is she???"


I believe it was episode 12 or 13 but hte guy she calls "God" says she is software. I dont totally understand it so correct me if I'm wrong but he mentions something about her being the software for Protocol 7.

[DrZepp]

i have similar thought like randoms, actuall its pretty much the same.
lain exists in everyones mind, as potential maybe. like i have touched on before, everything exists as potential, an object has the potential to be moved, but it doesnt come into play until it actually happens, nonethe less the action still exists. this is what lain is. that little thing in the back of your head that you cant put your finger on but you know is there.
in the end she pretty much didnt exist, in my opinion this was lains way of living on

[cool2burn]

but that still doesnt answer my question what is she?

[Commander Fuyutsuki]

read my post aboce cool2burn, she was a software program for protocol 7, but then she turned out to be god I think. She is either god or software for protocol 7

[omae o korosu]

personally, i think she is a piece of software. remember how the wired god (what is his name!?!?! i keep forgetting. maybe there is something to that...)said that your not a god if no one worships you? who worshiped lain? no one remembered her.

[Kannibal]

For all those who have watched the series 'til the end, I think we can agree that Eiri is NOT what he claims to be.

In Episode 12, Lain says to Eiri that he is only a proxy god of someone who was waiting for the appearance of the wired.

And then there is that moment where Lain is having tea with her father, and she says that she loves everyone.

I will not hesitate to compare this with God (the father) and Jesus (the son). You can disagree : that's just my opinion.
Just like in the Bible, God didn't come down on Earth by himself, he sent his son instead. Well, Lain is just a manifestation of God in the Wired, and thus in the world as well.

People comparing Lain to "a piece of software" should rewatch the series and watch it from another perspective.

The Wired existed before the world as we know it. The wired is a world of information and it has always existed.
The networks, navis and cable modems are just icing on the cake, not the core of the Wired.

The "real" world is, at best, parallel to the Wired, and, at worst, an extension of the Wired. I'm not a man of extremes, so the truth must be somewhere in between.

As "God's daughter", Lain has the power to break down that barrier.

I hope my $0.02 were worth your time... :)

Kannibal

[Drizzten]

That's a good way of putting it. Eiri was too arrogant to realize his limitations on his "creation". The scenes that cover the exchanges between Lain and Eiri are the ones that benefit the most from repeated viewing, I think. Eiri makes claims that are refuted later on.

[heart havok]

Originally posted by omae o korosu
personally, i think she is a piece of software. remember how the wired god (what is his name!?!?! i keep forgetting. maybe there is something to that...)said that your not a god if no one worships you? who worshiped lain? no one remembered her.

this scene... most people find VERY confusing. why? because in this particular scene, Eiri is speaking for Lain and Lain is speaking for Eiri.

NOTE: the Echo that is usually behind Eiri's voice is behind Lain's in this sequence of dialogue.

in other words, Lain is answering for Eiri and he is Asking for Lain. this is basically showing that the two understand eachother.

[heart havok]

about Arisu remembering Lain... the Subconscious cannot be rewritten. the Subconscious isnot only a form of record, it is also a FATE of one's self and all that is possible within one's world.. for further questioning, look into the ideas of Prophesy.

[Drizzten]

From what scenes and episodes did you take that from? I didn't get that impression...but I did get that the subconscious is "untouchable."

[heart havok]

Drizzten's words
From what scenes and episodes did you take that from? I didn't get that impression...but I did get that the subconscious is "untouchable."

the very first scene of LAYER:10 LOVE

Eiri and Lain are standing as in a face off, and here is the Dialogue...


LAIN
The only one truth... God.
EIRI
Yes, it's me. Lain.
LAIN
Are you God?
EIRI
Yes, I'm God.

{enter the echo. considering the last line, if Eiri were to be talking AS himself, then he would be ASKing HIMSELF why he is a God. that's not propper, now is it? no. because he is ASKING in place of Lain and soon Lain will ANSWER in place of Eiri. just like i explained in the past post. ALSO, Lain will soon CALL HERLSEF "Masami Eiri"}

EIRI
Why can you be a god? I can't understand it. Aren't you already dead as a human? You can't be a god.
LAIN
I understand that the flesh is not necessary. Death only means to abandon the flesh.
EIRI
Like Chisa.

TEXT:I don't need to remain here.

LAIN
It is... Yes... But I improved the Protocol that rule the wired.
EIRI
Yes, you did it. But a Protocol is only an agreement.
LAIN
Yes. But I programmed a code that will function in higher phase.
EIRI
So what?
LAIN
I programmed some compressed information into the Protocol in Code.
EIRI
What kind of information?
LAIN
Humans' memory... All the thought, profile, memory, emotion of me, Masami Eiri.
EIRI
What does it mean?
LAIN
I can live forever in wired as an "anonymous" existence, and rule there by information.
EIRI
What should you be called?
LAIN
God.
EIRI
There is no God.
LAIN
Even if I could be a common existence in the Wired and affect the real world, I can't be a god by itself if there is no believer.
EIRI
But there are. No, you created them..........

{here, they stop talking for eachother as Lain REALIZES something new. i am also sure that they stop talking to eachother because Eiri calls her Lain again.}

LAIN
.......Knights.
EIRI
You don't need your flesh, Lain.
LAINwired
No, it's not!



there, Drizzten, hopefully that can help you out. you may even want to watch LAYER:10 while reading this so that you are certain ^_~

[r2rnot]

but that still doesnt answer my question what is she?

lain is identified as software (on disk 3 or disk 4). i thought that was one of the master strokes of the series, because you too are software, and capable of doing remarkable things if you really set your mind (or your software) to it.

i was pleased that what lain really wanted was to be in the real world. to me, that meant that no amount of virtual reality will ever come close to our own individual experience of reality itself. and yet we routinely take it all for granted.

it seemed also that her existence in the real world was an experiment by other ai softs in the wired. as if to say, you have your awareness now and all your brainwashing from your society; how long will it take for to learn to see with your own eyes and become truly aware?

[random1377]

OMG 4 and a half year old thread resurrection!!

...can he DO that??

[r2rnot]

OMG 4 and a half year old thread resurrection!!

...can he DO that??

well, he DID only just finish watching lain last month. maybe lain is still fresh in his mind. and haunting him...

[Wolfpac]

I find nothing wrong about bumping up an old thread just as long as it has some relevance. In fact some of the really old Lain thread's makes out for some good reading.

[random1377]

Great, now I have to rewatch the whole series for nostaglia's sake. thanks a lot! ;_;

-Random

[r2rnot]

yeah, and i was feeling pretty relevant at the time, thank you.

i think lain is great, but don't get me wrong, there is much in it that is disturbing, particularly the recurring motif of suicide. but its examination of truth is deep and thought-provoking, in my opinion, and one can really score some heavy ideas there, which more than makes up for the pain, angst, and trauma lain has to slog through.


____________________
you're standing on my neck

[iwakura]

I'm not certain that you can conclude that Lain is JUST software from that. It just implies that she has a software component...

I still tend to believe that she is something else which was provided a medium to manifest itself via a software interface. (a literal user interface so-to-speak)

And as far as the subconscious. The series is designed to register with the subconscious, that's what surrealism (as an artistic method) get's its true impact from.

[r2rnot]

visible to people on the street.

[r2rnot]

I'm not certain that you can conclude that Lain is JUST software from that. It just implies that she has a software component...

I still tend to believe that she is something else which was provided a medium to manifest itself via a software interface. (a literal user interface so-to-speak)

And as far as the subconscious. The series is designed to register with the subconscious, that's what surrealism (as an artistic method) get's its true impact from.

that's good, the part about surrealism. i always thought (without thinking about it much) that it was about trying to imitate the dreams you remember, which i had not regarded as subconscious, per se. how did you know the series was designed to do that? and what was the purpose?

[iwakura]

that's good, the part about surrealism. i always thought (without thinking about it much) that it was about trying to imitate the dreams you remember, which i had not regarded as subconscious, per se. how did you know the series was designed to do that? and what was the purpose?

Well, this series is what got me hooked on anime so I read up on it a bit.

Lain "called me" via a wall scroll. It the surrealist part that connected with me. I put it up at work and ocassionally others connect to it as well and comment on it.

The series has several levels of meaning. At it's deepest, it's a metaphore about how modernization is affecting Japanese society. The surface level has a sparse plot which requires the person to fill in the blanks as it goes along. Sometimes it is subtle and you don't even noice that your assumptions are being used this way.

There were some interviews by the creator of the show which I found enlightening. http://www.cjas.org/~leng/interview.htm

[r2rnot]

lain is what got me started too.

i suppose that you must have seen the related link, www.cjas.org/~leng/lain.htm, right? it has a lot of interesting stuff.