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Old 01-07-2000, 05:44 AM   #1   [permalink]
eva2000
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Darth Zone
EVA-Pilot
(4/24/00 12:26:21 am)
202.103.243.1
Reply | Edit | Del All Your thoughts on The Human Instrumentality Project
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Ok the last two EP of Neon Genesis Evangelion (VID 13 “Do you love me?” and “Take care of your self”), I watched many times and it still don’t think I have the full grasp of it yet.

The human instrumentality program, is for unifying all of man kind in to one mind so that the dark depths that we humans do not want to look can be filled be every ones mind. Due to the fact that there is this empty void in our souls (Like the eva’s which is filled with a humans), we fill it with our fears. For example Shinji, is full of self hatred and fears being rejected by others so strives to pilot the eva to gain recognition. Asuka is also the same in this respect as she also pilots the eva to gain respect and praise from others and fears depending on others for help no matter how much she needs it! So to gain ‘inner-peace’ they must first over come their fears and realizes their potential in them selves. Is this what the human instrumentality project really is? A way for humans to better them selves and to bring a state of conciseness where no one has any fears or prejudices, bringing on a perfect world scenario and at the same time filling the void? Or how we see our selves on other eyes is irrelevant and that only what we see in our selves and recognizing our fears and then overcoming them is how we truly find our selves? And in the people around us we are able to see our selves, not through how they see you but who you think they are and how they act?
Were the angels so intent on destroying man kind because they feared our souls or the power of our minds, as we see on many occasions the angels trying to map out the human mind or sole(vid 15:Lie and Silence, vid: 11, and vid 12: Rei 3 The Beginning and the End, Knocking on heavens door), were we a threat to THEIR existence, or were the Angels a product of Akare’s plans, in creating them for the human instrumentality project (This could have been what caused the first impact). Thou I find this hard to believe it could be a possibility?!
********
These are just a small part of some of my thoughts on the topic. I would like to know what some of you die hard Evangelion fans think!!??



Access
NERV-Technician
(4/24/00 1:34:50 am)
203.21.78.66
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: Your thoughts on The Human Instrumentality Project
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Well I will say what I can, but you described the aspects of instrmentality so viviidly, theirs not much I can say. I can just imagine ATh sitting at his Computer reading the message with his eyes lighting up, this REALLY is his department.

Well Keel wanted peace having lived for a long time (being the wandering Jew and all) he also wanted to be the being in which everyone merged into. Gendo wanted the same, and so he could meet with Yui again, which he would anyway under Keel's scenario so he was just being greedy.

Yeah all that stuff, is right, we merge together, yadda, yadda, yadda, to fill each others gaps yadda, yadda, yadda, inner and outer peace to the lillim, yadda, yadda, yadda.

The angels weren't intending to destroy mankind. Kaoru said "Only one lifeform can be chosen to evade the destruction and seize the future...you need the future"
The angels were just returning back to Adam, and the dead sea scrolls were left behind for telling this day, this was a chance for mankind to ivolve to a higher level, one without violence, pain, and suffering. But one could also argue that they suffered having to admit their fears, yeah thats true BUT after that they would have peace. The angels either acting independently (unlikely) or by that of god, for either mankind or the angels would die. Kaoru also said somthing like "that it doesnt really matter whether Angels live or die", this time at hand is for the lillim. "My destiny is to live forever". When the minds of the children were being "raped" by the angels, these were tests for the pilots, to see what the human mind is capable off.

And 1st impact was caused by Lillith and Adam (somehow) crashing to Earth wiping out the dinosaurs.

Access


A T h 401
EVA-Pilot
(4/24/00 11:48:01 pm)
203.21.47.3
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Your thoughts on The Human Instrumentality Project
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i find those two titles bring almost a chill through me when i think of them and how they relate to those two eps.

"Do you love me?" gives such a vivid description of Asuka's existance (as well a Shinji) while "Take care of Yourself" is everything which Misato's and Kaji's relationship evolved to be.

As for the topic,

It seems third impact was one way of furthering mankinds evolution, and probly not an artifical way either. So yes Darth Zone, you have put it very well.

a small thought for those who are inclined-
Think of Fyutski as the Right Pillar, Gendo as the Left Pillar, Shinji as the Middle Pillar and have this standing before the Rei/Lilith/Eva(multiforms of the Female) Isis.


ATh


fasad
EVA-Pilot
(4/25/00 1:25:21 am)
203.23.145.164
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Your thoughts on The Human Instrumentality Project
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ah, the last two episodes. i have to say, i thought they are by far the best part of eva. the rest of the series is just a character introduction. a very good one at that

however, these episodes do not help with the plot much. i think they ran out of time/money/episodes - so they couldn't fill that part in. i also think that the details of the plot become unimportant at this point.

ok , this is my interpretation. the human imp. project has started. the point of it is to erase the loneliness/fear that we, as social beings feel, no matter how "happy" or busy we are. the way the do it is by melting our minds together - however, it seems to remain a very personal thing, even though it is the same for each of us. each person must come over the problem as they see it, even if the problem is really the same for all. the episodes show how it is (mostly) for just shinji - the others are their "images" (selves?) of themselves in his mind. the loneliness/fear is removed in him is by realising that things are as they are because of his interpretations and reactions, and that things dont have to be the way he sees them. and all the others are a lot more like him than he realizes this involves a change in self-image, and total thought patterns (how you react to the world, and more importantly others). it's an improvement. i can't say it's a true "evolution to a higher state", but this part of the series could gone on forever (it does go on a bit as is) and never shown what it was trying to - it's just not possible!

the point of this is anno showing his feelings and thoughts. the fact that he remains pretty much the same now as he was before the series is testiment to the point that it would require something supernatural (3rd impact) for people to reach a state of true contentment/nivahna/heaven/take-your-pick. in other words, children, life's not much fun, because you really are on your own, and we don't know why. i think the very ending is far more depressing than anything.

he did well, imho

i hope this makes sense to you guys - i'm not very good at writing down my thoughts.


Capt Jake
EVA-Pilot
(4/25/00 10:41:10 am)
216.209.137.100
Reply | Edit | Del Instrumentality in a nutshell
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Now I'm well aware that this has been posted a thousand times before but I'll post it again dammit!

The point to episodes 25 & 26 of Neon Genesis Evangelion were basically Hideaki Anno's personal vision of Evangelion. It also is meant to fit in with End of Evangelion in the way that they take place during it. Confused yet? you see the episodes shows the final coming to grips with the truth about one's self or Complimentation of each of the main characters in the story. Misato realized that she was just like Shinji and would run away into meaningless relationships in an attempt to spite her father who she loved/hated so much. This was done while she was about do die from her gunshot wound. It even showed her laying down with a gunshot wound in the series. Askua's complimentation occured when they put her in Eva 02 and dropped it in the bottom of the lake. Notice how it shows Eva 02 underwater in a fetal position with Askua inside? It was this coming to grips with herself that allowed her to pilot Eva 02 against the Eva Series(5-13). Rei's occured in her mind just as she was about to initiate the third impact. This was the reason for her betraying of Gendo and initiating of the Impact herself. Finally Shinji's occured within his mind while the impact was occuring and Rei was communicating with his mind(who do you think was asking all of those on screen text questions?). It was this final realization that he is an individual that was responsable for his drastic decision not to join the masses and to break away from the third impact. A sure sign of how far he had come in such a short time is it not? Hey they don't call me the Captain for nothing you know!




corpse
NERV-Technician
(4/25/00 10:59:07 pm)
203.59.210.8
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Instrumentality in a nutshell
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ok looks like someone beat me to it...i was gonna post a thred like this. anyways i got more questions then answers. i did this right after i watched the eps so it might sound weird coz i got alot of thoughts.

At the beginning of episode 26, it says that human instrumentaltity is the 'completion and
restoration of what man's mind has lost.' it is this loss that we all fear.
what is this loss? is it our preoccupation that we cannot live without the presence of
others who in turn judge us and value us which then give us identity and self worth.

or is it the fear of rejection. shinji says that he pilots eva because it gives him an
identity which is justification of his presence on earth. other than that, he has no other
value. shinjis self worth is made through the mind of others, their perceptions form shinjis
true self (or what he thinks to be his true self) and that if others have no perception of
him then nothing separates him from nothingness. it seems all the pilots pilot the eva
because this is the only thing which justifies their existence. any comments?

is the instrumentality also designed to allow the individual to accept himself as how he
sees himself and alternate his view of himself? this could also be what is lost because all
the characters in eva see themselves thorugh how others percieve them and it is the fear
that they will be disliked or rejected that could be the loss. for example, shinji hates
himself because he thinks that everyone else hates him. the acceptance of truth, of ones
true self shapes reality and thus can lead to many different fates. is this what they mean
when they show that end bit in episode 26 of how a possible alternate reality exists
whenever we change the perception of ourselves? could shinji have a choice of path which
leads him to actually liking himslef. could this choice of path avoid the third impact.
maybe the instrumentality was designed to avoid the third impact?

after watching it, i also realised that rei didnt really like gendo (or is it just me), she
says she wished to be disowned by him, is this so she could gain individuality or find an
identity because under gendo she was merely a puppet which conformed to his wishes.

In episode 25, it said that shinji wished for a return to nothingness. is this the thrid
impact? or is the third impact needed to fill the void in the core of our minds and soul,
which is essentially fear and anxiety and is in every human being. is the third impact used
to become one in order to fill this void? to vanquish the fear of how others see us because
we are now one and all think alike?

OR IS THIS ALL TO DO WITH EXISTENCE AND OUR SENSE OF SELF IDENTITY????

another thing i realised was that shinji, asuka, and misato made thier choices based on
their parents. shinji piloted because he was told to do so by his father (and he thinks
by everyone else as well). asuka piloted to show she was strong and didnt need her parents
who disowned her. misato got with kaji so she could dirty herself and make her father hate
her becoz she hated him. but this is ironic since kaji reminded her so much about her father
that she ran away from him.

i hope this doesnt sound too confusing becoz i just rewatched the last 2 eps and had a lot
of thoughts runnig through my head that i wanted to get out so this might sound like blabble.
if u get what im talking about, feel free to comment/answer my questions/correct me if im
wrong/add comments.

cheers.i hope this isnt too long





Access
NERV-Technician
(4/26/00 9:16:54 pm)
203.21.78.66
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: Instrumentality in a nutshell
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only when you type the message in a word processor and cut and paste it in. lol.
Access


eva2000
NERV-Commander-(Admin)
(5/13/00 2:08:45 am)
198.142.149.113
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Instrumentality in a nutshell
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Thought's i'd bring back this thread since were on the topic


Ura
NERV-Technician
(5/15/00 12:54:59 am)
203.29.192.74
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Instrumentality in a nutshell
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Eps 25-26 are extremely confusing. I had an Idea that human Instrumentality was:

WARNING!!!! Spoiler if you havent Seen EOE do not read THIS!!





In EOE the plan was for the comittee to use Unit One to cause Third Impact a forced evolution of all mankind into the one entity of LCL. I thought Instrumentality was the Use of Rei by Gendo to merge with Lilith and Control the Third Impact (which failed). Rei was the Instrumentality and the Briddge between the two states right? I might be wrong


Access
NERV-Technician
(5/15/00 5:03:30 pm)
203.21.78.66
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: Instrumentality in a nutshell
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Well Gendo was planning to use himself as the centre being by merging with Rei, Adan & Lillith. But Seele interviened, they instead used Unit-01 and Lillith. And by the process of the Red Earth Cermony keel would become the centre being, it failed. Rei interviened trying to help Shinji, this stuffed Seels scenario, instaed of Keel desiding if we should evolve the decsion was left to Shinji. After that we would become LCL, however Shinji' rejected third impact... and their are possible endings....

hope that helped.
Access


A T h 401
EVA-Pilot
(5/15/00 11:19:56 pm)
203.21.47.3
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Instrumentality in a nutshell
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I have just seen Death& Rebirth and my entire preception may be changing (D&R kiss ass, much better than EoE)

To me i get the feeling that Gendo's plan was the same as Yui's plan and that the Eva's were to be used for some purpose BUT that humanity was still to continue its existance.

It was SEELE's plan which saw the death of all life, something Yui was opposed to, and Gendo as well as it was his only Love's desire.

Fuytski saying -say hello to Yui for me- gives me the thought that only Gendo was to merge with 01 and Yui.

This also explains why he wanted to get rid of the Lance, as it was the only thing which could bring about third impact.

This is still all new to me so i should have it sorted out later.

ATh
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