Influence of Stanley Kubrick on Evangelion (Enough spoilers to curdle your milk by!)

Project Akira · 06-10-2002, 02:11 PM

While not a philosophical discussion, this isn't a thread for chit chat. It's a thread meant for artistic analysis of Evangelion for those interested and have a clue what will be talked about in here.

Watching End of Evangelion, I once again felt that there was an undeniable influence of the late American film director Stanley Kubrick on the Evangelion story. For those who are wondering as to who Stanley Kubrick is, Kubrick is the director of such cinematic classics as 2001: A Space Oddyssey, Dr. Strangelove, and A Clockwork Orange among others. For those that have seen these along with his other works, I think that the influence is highly undeniable. The stressing of human alienation, technology and outside higher forces overpowering man, still shots that last for minutes on end, all undeniable influences of Kubrick on Hideki Anno's vision in Evangelion.

Also is it me but every time a scene is set in a hospital, does anyone else get an uneasy feeling from the sterility of the setting (something that's also a Kubrick hallmark). Also the scene where Rei re-enters Lilith reminded me alot of 2001 whenever man would go near a Monolith. Speaking of the Monolith, could SEELE's sound only images be a nod by Anno to Kubrick?

Feel free to dispute or elaborate on points brought up in this post ^^

jww1477 · 06-10-2002, 10:58 PM

I don't really feel much of a Kubrick influence. Please elaborate why you think so...

I mean, the long awkward silences were indeed meant to punctuate the personality rifts between characters (as well as to save money in an animation studio - let's be honest). When was this employed in a Kubrick film, however?

The Selee black slabs are semi-monolith evoking, but not to a strong degree.

(To be honest and fair, I'm not the biggest Kubrick fan, though I loved Paths of Glory and Dr. Strangelove a great deal.)

Project Akira · 06-10-2002, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Says jww1477
I don't really feel much of a Kubrick influence. Please elaborate why you think so...

If anything I would have to say that it's 2001: A Space Odyssey that plays a huge influence visual influence (use of negatives, empty space, etc) that is present in Eva. As I said earlier however, I believe it's more a thematic influence. A lot of the key themes of Evangelion (as well as Anno's other work) seem to be influenced by themes explored by Kubrick; man's relation to himself and his outside environment, how people function with one another, technological misappropriation, man not acknowledging his smallness in the grand scheme of things. There are probably more that I'm not looking at but for the moment those are key themes that along with the visual influences I feel have played a key role in the development of Eva and it's plot.

Quote:

Continues jww1477
I mean, the long awkward silences were indeed meant to punctuate the personality rifts between characters (as well as to save money in an animation studio - let's be honest). When was this employed in a Kubrick film, however?

Once again, it was used in 2001 in order to punctuate the isolation of space travel. Also used in 2001 extensively as well as Eva is classical music to express emotions and situations as well as add to the overall piece itself

Quote:

And this conludes jww1477
The Selee black slabs are semi-monolith evoking, but not to a strong degree.

I think it was more of a nod than an outright homage but I don't think that a connection can be denied.

*waiting for MD Wigs with an interview revealing Anno's love for the films of Kubrick*

AchtungAffen · 07-10-2002, 01:18 AM

The sterility would be the color gamma always used in the hospital scenes. Everything is in a pattern of blue (blue pattern?).

Also, yes, not only the monoliths (hope they have the same scale as 2001, dont remember it now) and also when Rei reenters lillith when she says "Tadaima", reminded me a little of Kubrick.

MDWigs · 08-10-2002, 12:47 AM

Anno was influence by a lot of things, and he puts a great deal of references into his work. In fact Gainax as a whole put a lot of references into their work. If you check out their most recenly work, Abenobashi Magical Shopping District, they make numerous Kubrick homage’s, the 2001 and Shining ones being the most obvious.

In Eva itself I think that some things are obvious references to Kubrick's work. IIRC the SEELE Monoliths are in the exact same proportions as the ones from 2001, that is 1 by 4 by 9 (which is the squares of the first 3 integers).

The use of classical music is also very reminiscent of Kubrick's work, particularly brining the music into the foreground and using it as the focus for a scene.

As for the themes of the show though, well I think Anno borrowed from everywhere for that. I don't think he was influenced by Kubrick exclusively on that front. For that matter the ideas that Kubrick deals with in his films are really age old issues. The story of a man trying to discover who he is belongs to no one person in particular. The issue of what is next in human evolution is the same. These are topics that people have thought about as long as people have been able to think.

So cinematically I would say that Anno was probably influenced by Kubrick’s work, thematically though, I think Anno was influenced by the world, Kubrick just makes up one small part of that. Anno reads a lot of SF, he also read a lot of psychology leading up to Eva. He is also an Otaku, he watches a lot of anime, stuff that dealt with similar themes long before he got around to doing it.

You have to be careful about saying stuff is "undeniable", however I do certainly think Anno was influenced by Kubrick’s work.

08-10-2002, 04:14 AM

i really think anno had some influence from kubrick, but its the more subtle things...
the monoliths were definitely put in for cost cutting measures, but to great affect, and probably as a 'tip of the hat' to kubrick
the classical music was also excellent, but i might have or might not have been a reference to kubricks work (Clockwork Orange is a classic example)
theres definitely something in there, but unless you ask anno himself, i guess we'll never know

Plastic · 08-10-2002, 12:40 PM

MDWigs is right about not putting all of the cinematography in Eva to Kubrick’s influence. He didn’t exactly invent the sterile look, or the long pauses, or much else really. It’s all been around for a long time. Kubrick isn’t the be-all and end-all of film; he was quite average in a lot of ways. He just chose really excellent books to adapt from, or got great authors to write scenarios (Arthur C. Clarke was very involved with 2001, and A Clockwork Orange is actually an outstanding book, which people seem to forget). But I don’t deny his talent for coming up with stunning visuals or his influence on filmmakers today. He’s just a bit glorified, that’s all.

Also, as a general rant, I find it strange how people just seem to identify everything Eva solely with Anno. Of course it’s got a lot to do with him, but it’s not like he single handily directed every single scene in Eva (series, and the movies). In a lot of cases he just came up with simple screenplays, and people like Tsurumaki Kazuya and MASAYUKI did a lot of the work.
It's annoying because they're both amazing directors in their own right, the former being ten times better than Anno, if I'm being brutally honest (what a shock). They deserve much more recognition than they get, that’s for sure (as well as all the staff who worked on Eva, of course).

Sorry if that sounded rude, but I'm feeling a bit pissant today. It's not an attack on anyone personally, just the mass generalisations of the world.

AchtungAffen · 08-10-2002, 01:12 PM

I'm going to make a question a little off topic, but anyone knows from wich language all these clockwork orange slang, like molokko, comes from??

Project Akira · 08-10-2002, 06:23 PM

A teacher of mine in 12th grade who had met the book's writer, Anthony Burgess, told me that it's a hybrid of Russian and English

MDWigs · 08-10-2002, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Plastic

Also, as a general rant, I find it strange how people just seem to identify everything Eva solely with Anno. Of course it's got a lot to do with him, but it's not like he single handily directed every single scene in Eva (series, and the movies). In a lot of cases he just came up with simple screenplays, and people like Tsurumaki Kazuya and MASAYUKI did a lot of the work. It's annoying because they're both amazing directors in their own right, the former being ten times better than Anno, if I'm being brutally honest (what a shock). They deserve much more recognition than they get, that's for sure (as well as all the staff who worked on Eva, of course).

Anno is easier to write that Gaianx. Which is why I use it. Tsurumaki may have effectively been Anno's understudy, and MASAYUKI did direct Death, but overall Eva was Anno's project. When I write Anno thought I don't necessarily mean Anno himself, I sometimes just mean "someone at Gaianx".

As for Tsurumaki being a better director than Anno. Well I disagree with that. I think that Tsurumaki is undoubtedly a great director, but if you say look at Kare-Kano, which has Anno actively directing the first part, and then Tsurumaki effectively taking over, then you can see the clear difference in their directing styles, and I personally think Anno's is far superior to Tsurumaki's. He's still learning, and that's obvious in some places. I think he will be one of the great directors of the next 10 years, but at the moment he has a lot to learn.

Plastic · 10-10-2002, 01:21 PM

I’ll agree he’s still got loads of potential to fill, but after FLCL... it might just be personal preference, but I thought the direction for it was outstanding. I mean, in comparison to every other GAINAX series, I'd say that's been the most innovative on almost every level so far. And to be fair, FLCL technically is his first ‘real’ job as Mr. Director.

Not to say Gunbuster wasn’t a treat (the last episode was a beaut), but Anno’s debut doesn’t compare to FLCL. But I’m not discrediting him. I just prefer the Tsurumaki style.

Anno’s live action movies are stunning, though. I really want to see Shikjitsu (Ceremonial Day). Does anyone know where I can get a subbed copy (if it hasn't been licenced, and I'm allowed to ask)?

MDWigs · 10-10-2002, 07:58 PM

Tsurumaki had 10 years on Anno, Tsurumaki had CG, Tsurumaki could do things that Anno simply couldn't do, and finally Tsurumaki made it at a time when Gaianx were the studio, and didn't have to worry about money problems.

Technically you just can't compare FLCL to Gunbuster, nor should you considering there is a decade between them. If you want to compare actual directing styles though, well then I would say Tsurumaki's efforts in FLCL are better than Gunbuster. That is to be expected though. I don't think Anno came into his own until Eva, I don't think Nadia was fantastic. Tsurumaki worked under Anno during Eva and then he went on to produce a fantastic anime. I am not saying he isn't talented. I just don't think his work to date rivials Anno's. Going back and looking at Anno's first work is rather silly though in my opinion, becuase if you really wanted to do it you would go all the way back to the Diacon III opening and the Bunny Girl.

AchtungAffen · 11-10-2002, 10:30 AM

but wings of honneamise was pretty good.

whiteraven · 11-10-2002, 11:08 AM

Heh, well I personally hate most of Kubrick's films, clockwork orange and eyes wide shut come to mind as filthy and awful, but perhaps I'm just too conservative. I did like the shining, and I thought 2001 was okay (I really liked Hal- although I don't really think the Magi are like him, before anyone goes there). We may go watch Dr. Strangelove this weekend.
As for comparisons in EVA- I didn't really see much that I haven't seen elsewhere, what makes the series stand out for me is the character designs and the characters themselves. The action of the eva battle sequences in the beginning of the series also pleases me greatly.

As for the use of classical music...well, I'd say at least 50 percent of films have some classical music at some point, and it's typically to enhance mood or emotional impact. The hospital rooms being stark and sterile- well, come on, it's a hospital room. They ALL look like that. The monoliths - I can see how there could be a connection there, although as far as I know Anno or somebody else atGAINAX (for you MDWigs, you still spelled it wrong in your post ^_^) could have been really into dominos as a child.

AchtungAffen · 11-10-2002, 11:28 AM

Many movies use classical, still how many use classicals like Bach or Pachelbel?, in fact, nor many movies I've seen use Barroque at all. They prefer romanticism and contemporary.