Thread Tools
Old 01-07-2000, 05:03 AM   #1   [permalink]
eva2000
Administrator
 
eva2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: 23 Jun 2000
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 12,408
Question

Ura
NERV-Technician
(6/7/00 12:38:49 am)
203.2.75.134
Reply | Edit | Del All Rei, Yui and Unit-01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One thing I always wondered about when watching Eva was how these three things are related.

Yui's soul was taken into Eva right. Rei is a clone of Yui.

What I began to wonder is if they managed to salvage part of Yui's soul and that is what they used for Rei but part of her remains in Unit-01 this being her emotions. I think this because of the way that every time the eva took over from Shinji it has acted on pure emotion, eg. Rage. (The first tine was to protect Shinji I know). So this is wjy I think Rei is so devoid of emotions, Yuis still linger in the Eva. Rei II only really developed her own feelings a minute before her death.

What do you guys think?


A T h 401
EVA-Pilot
(6/7/00 1:07:39 am)
202.65.67.234
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Rei, Yui and Unit-01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well most people know my opinion on this,

That Rei's soul is that of Lilith, now what that means is that Rei does have emotions, but not very well developed (due to her upbringing- with Gendo).

Now yui's soul is in 01, i think intacted (nothing missing) so for 01 to use this emotion to run without power is possible.

Rei 11 developing emotions just before her death. No i would say they were developing all the time. In fact it was due to this that she self detonated- she says it is her will to become one with Shinji- something which i dont think occurred to her suddenly at that moment, this was just the first time she had to actually act on it (something she, Gendo, Shinji are not too good at doing).

Rei 111 was still attached to shinji, so it sort of rules out a vast shift between the Reis (the feelings she developed for shinji carried over into the next vessel).

I also sort of disagree with the theory that only Yui's emotions are in 01. When Shinji was absorbed, as well as other times when power was low (12th angel) there is more to Yui than just emotion, she seems whole and complete.

If you take Karou as being very similar to Rei, he had emotions, but they were some what intellectual in practice.

I think that both he (Karou) and Rei lack one thing which distorts human emotion, they both lack fear (though Rei seems to develop this as well near the end).

ATh


Keroppilee
EVA-Pilot
(6/7/00 4:44:02 am)
207.62.166.177
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Rei, Yui and Unit-01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought the part of rei that is yui is physical. Like they took some of yui's dna or something but her soul is lillith.


Capt Jake
EVA-Pilot
(6/7/00 6:09:10 am)
206.172.135.166
Reply | Edit | Del Enought with this Lilith ----!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the last time, Lilith's soul is not in Rei, it is in Lilith. We know this because it is impossible to live without a soul and also impossible for a dead thing to regrow legs. How can a dead thing regenerate? If Lilith was dead she most likely would of decomposed(or maybe not). Rei has her own soul. It is a new soul much like the one that a newborn baby would get. When you create a body it needs a soul so it would get one whether it be a newly created one or reincarnated one form the room of Gaff depending on your beliefs. At first you were thinking that Liliths soul was in Eva-00, now you are saying it's Rei! The answer to your problem was the simplest one. Lilith's soul is in Lilith and that's the bottom line cuz Stone Cold said so.


3foolishmen
EVA-Pilot
(6/7/00 2:21:24 pm)
168.122.14.56
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Rei, Yui and Unit-01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ura: "Rei II only really developed her own feelings a minute before her death."

Like ATh says, ReiII's emotional development was an ongoing process. She had a full range of emotions from the beginning, she only gradually got around to expressing them. There are lots of small scenes where she expresses these, such as embarrassment when Shinji tells her she will make a good mother.

ATh: "That Rei's soul is that of Lilith..."

In EoE, Lilith welcomes ReiIII right before ReiIII returns to her. There's a short exchange between the two: "I'm home" and "Welcome back." Seems to me that Lilith had a soul, simply by virtue of being able to answer to Rei.
Rei and Lilith share a lot, undoubtedly. But I don't think that a soul is on this list.


eva2000
NERV-Commander-(Admin)
(6/7/00 3:55:06 pm)
198.142.59.227
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Rei, Yui and Unit-01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was checking through my site's log files and found that people have been quoting a link from my site on other message boards

thought that it would be appropriate here

http://www.eva2000.com/redcross/glos...1_pg3.html#rei


Pen2
EVA-Pilot
(6/7/00 8:00:10 pm)
203.101.17.56
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: Enought with this Lilith ----!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh dear. The Rei thing again. Now we can do this this time provided we all stay calm about this this time

Okay, most Regulars know my opinion. For those that don't (actually I think the first time this came around it was only myself, ATh and El Capitano so i'd be pleased to see others' take on this) i'm going to point out a few facts before I state my own opinion and get around to Cap's. So just chill everybody ::slips into asbestos jacket::

Fact #1 There is definitely a second "consciousness" residing within the being known as Rei (been watching 0:13 too much ) From Ep. 25


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chibi Rei: Do you detect the intangible and invisible presence that lurks beneath your waking self?....It is there that your true self lies..

Rei: No. I am me. {omit}

Chibi Rei: But there is another who is your true self. You don't know her, but she exists. You attempt to suppress that facet of your reality...because she may not have human form....because the present self may cease to be. This is what you fear......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Fact #2 Rei has some connection to Yui. From Ep 21. via the Literal Translation Series


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Akagi: This child [looks like] someone.
Yui-san?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



and again from Ep.24, after Shinji learns the 'truth about rei'. Same source.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shinji: Ayanami Rei,
It may be correct... that impression.
My mom's ...
Rei and my Mom...
What is my Father doing for these two?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Fact #3 Rei definitely has some connection to Lilith. I couldn't find a quote for this, but think back to Ep. 24, and Rei is shown to have an A.T. field. Oh wait heres one.....


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kaoru: You are, the First Children?
Ayanami Rei.....
You are the same as me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So Rei definitely has angel status. So where did this come from if not Lilith?

Okay so now my opinion. Lilith's soul is in Rei. That's the bottom line because Penē said so. Don't believe that? Fine tell me why, just read why I believe this first.

Now firstly the RCB says that Rei has the physical body of Yui, and a soul that is somehow connected to Lilith. Now I know what some of you think of the RCB (I agree with you partly) so i don't tender this as Irrefutable Evidence. But to me the theory has merit. From the quotes in Fact #2, Rei certainly has a physical resemblance to Yui. I personally see no mental resemblance to Yui (I know you're itching to go after this but hang on a sec) bar the supposed love for Gendo and Shinji. This may or may not be due to Yui's influence, it's something i've been pondering since I was discussing this with Access, and still I don't have a satisfactory conclusion. So sue me.

Now Lilith. IMO there is no disputing that there is a connection between Lilith and Rei. okay? Moving right along the quote from Fact #1 "because she may not have human form" points quite simply to Lilith. Plus in EoE the "welcome home" scene that ATh mentioned, these instances put my opinion with Lilith.

*phew* next


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the last time, Lilith's soul is not in Rei, it is in Lilith. We know this because it is impossible to live without a soul and also impossible for a dead thing to regrow legs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Why? Why is it impossible for a dead thing to regrow legs? And about living without a soul, the entire spare batch of Rei clones seem to be suffering from a peculiar fit of live-ness for things without souls aren't they? I don't get it. You've explained your "Lilith=Lilith, Rei=Rei" theory simply enough. But i still need a few things explained to me

a) If this is true, then what is Rei's connection to Lilith?

b) If Lilith was alive and with soul, what kept her on the cross. It wasn't the lance, because that was pulled out and she didn't go nowhere. and please don't say 'because they kept chopping off her legs'

a few other points, while i'm in the typing mood


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rei has her own soul. It is a new soul much like the one
that a newborn baby would get. When you create a body it needs a soul so it would
get one whether it be a newly created one or reincarnated one form the room of Gaff
depending on your beliefs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Rei did not get her soul from the Room of Gaff. It says exactly so in D&R

well that's my two bits, thank you and goodnight




----"Gyaaa" -Penē


A T h 401
EVA-Pilot
(6/7/00 10:23:08 pm)
202.65.67.221
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Rei, Yui and Unit-01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pen2 you said it very well indeed. i have only a few more points to add. (and i thought you were being rather quiet lately Captin)

3f
---------------------------------------------
In EoE, Lilith welcomes ReiIII right before ReiIII returns to her. There's a short exchange between the two: "I'm home" and "Welcome back." Seems to me that Lilith had a soul, simply by virtue of being able to answer to Rei.

____________________________________________________


I do not see Lilith really answering Rei at all. We see a screen shot of Welcome home/back. This could be from inside Rei herself.

Well not as much as i thought i had to say, but i am glad that there are still people who believe the soul of Rei is Lilith (i thought i was the only one).

All i have left to say is that a body does not need a soul inorder to grow, but Pen2 pointed that out with the Rei clones.

ATh



Ura
NERV-Technician
(6/8/00 12:49:53 am)
203.2.75.135
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Rei, Yui and Unit-01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Should have phrased that better. Rei II only really expressed emotions before her death. I know that it was an ongoing process and I believe that her soul in fact is part of Yui's. With scenes like how she squeezed the cloth just like yui and the way that she protected Shinji by placing herself between Unit-01 and the 5th Angel as well as sacrificing herself for him, even though he was not essential to the project. I still hold to the fact that while they could not do a full recovery of Yui they were able to get some of her soul back and this is what Rei is based upon


A T h 401
EVA-Pilot
(6/8/00 1:13:59 am)
202.65.67.239
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Rei, Yui and Unit-01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shinji not essential to the project???

i would have to disagree, even his father knew that Shinji was the only one who Yui/01 would accept.

Gendo however made one small misjudgement-
that Shinji would become to very pinical to the project rather than Him.

Now, if Lilith was somehow behind the HIP, meaning that She was aware and trying to get things to work out her way (which is not impossible)
Then Rei would have done everything to help Shinji, knowing her body could be replaced. (but this is new teritory here which is good).

ATh


Capt Jake
EVA-Pilot
(6/8/00 10:20:29 am)
216.209.137.56
Reply | Edit | Del Hmmmmmm,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is true that Rei does have a connection to Lilith, I'm not denying that. However Rei's soul is independent from that of Lilith. The reason that Rei has an AT field is because she is part Angel part Yui and guess what Angel she was made with. Lilith of course! She is part Lilith and Part Yui.

Also I noticed no real livelyness from the Rei clones. They just floated there and when they were destroyed that sound you heard was a sound of thier vocal chords being torn out as their heads detached and was multiplied by the number of clones in there plus it resonated in the LCL(I think it was LCL) Much in the way that a human has a reflexive sort of gargle when they die of old age.

Also think about this Lilith thing here, pretend that you are an Angel with no legs who is crucified to a cross in a big room full of your own blood, It's easy to overlook the fact that there are giant spikes in her hands. Plus even if she got the strength to rip herself off the cross where would she go. The hangar is locked and she would fall into a giant pool of her own blood. Perhaps she just accepted defeat and gave up fighting. And we can't overlook the fact that they kept chopping her legs off. It's a good way to keep someone from running away. She seemed kinda submissive if you asked me, as if they broke her spirits.


The Nondescript
EVA-Pilot
(6/8/00 4:31:37 pm)
130.220.211.33
Reply | Edit | Del Physical
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that kerppilee was on the right track.

Perhaps the connection of REi to both Yui and Lillith is physical, and Rei is a product of engineering from these two. This argument provides connections to Yui and Lil and can bypass souls altogether.


Pen2
EVA-Pilot
(6/9/00 5:32:33 pm)
203.101.17.56
Reply | Edit | Del
I Think, Therefore I Am......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay what I was getting at with the Rei clones was that while, as you said, they weren't exactly sentient beings, they certainly weren't dead or in a state of decomposition, as you said would have happened to lilith had she been 'souless'

Also with the amputation of the legs, you'll notice that in D&R, and the directors cut, when the Lance is removed the legs grow back almost instantaneously so if this were the case, it seems impractical to keep cutting them off every few minutes..... and anyway what then stopped Lilith from moving until Rei arrived? The legs had certainly grown back by then.

The reason that I believe that Lilith is souless is because, to me, she posseses no 'spark of life' the spare Rei clones did not possess this either, and they were certainly soulless. Both of them are, in a sense, living. (hence the regeneration, and the behaviour of the spares)
But they lack any form of sentience. Simple

<edit>
<hey half my post was missing! oh well i'll try and repeat what i was saying.....>

...but they lack any form of sentience. Simple stimulus=response behaviour, or any other instinct or drive for self-preservation. The Cartesian Principle= I Think, Therefore I am. However they certainly weren't dead, and I don't know about your theory about the vocal chords, that's really quite debatable. But it's possible, if not probable.

Anyway, back on track. Lilith, IMHO isn't dead, but if she were truly alive, I doubt anything would keep her in place. She has no drive, no instincts. So this, IMO puts her in the same category as the spare Reis - Souless. And so, if Lilith is indeed souless this would explain the 'Welcome home' scene, as rei would embody this soul.

<not really what I said the first time, but i've forgotten >
----"Gyaaa" -Penē

Edited by Pen2 at: 6/9/00 5:32:33 pm


Ura
NERV-Technician
(6/8/00 11:38:20 pm)
203.2.75.135
Reply | Edit | Del Re: I Think, Therefore I Am......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shinji was not a factor of Seelee's project from the start:

Theres the way they attacked gendo for letting his son use their "toy".

Shinji was only called for because they had a use for him. He was to destroy the Angels and that is all. He was not essential because they also had Rei and Asuka.

WARNING!!!! EOE is mentioned below:



EVA-01 was not supposed to be used in Third Impact, it was considered as acceptable when it became apparent.


A T h 401
EVA-Pilot
(6/9/00 12:14:55 am)
202.65.67.194
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Rei, Yui and Unit-01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would say 01 was cloned from Lilith in anticipation that Lilith herself may not be a viable source.

there is no doubt was a substitute, but this seems acceptable to SEELE

ATh
__________________
be afraid... Admin cap is back... !
eva2000 is offline  
 

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Souls of Eva-00 and Eva-02 Black_Knight Evangelion Chit Chat 53 24-08-2003 01:20 AM
Me within Eva MDWigs Evangelion Discussions 29 30-03-2002 04:41 AM
NGE Discussion Index & FAQ ryezen Evangelion Discussions 87 23-06-2001 11:24 PM
[Archive]: Ask Captain Jake anything about Evangelion!!! eva2000 Evangelion Ezboard archives 0 01-07-2000 04:27 AM
[Archive]: Love eva2000 Evangelion Ezboard archives 0 01-07-2000 04:23 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.