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Old 05-02-2001, 12:28 PM   #1   [permalink]
Yui_Reborn
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Have any of the 'regular artists' (pretty much anyone reading this right now), actually benefitted from a high school or college level art class? Did things that you learned in class actually help you improve your own style, or was most of your improvement the result of your own personal effort?

Part of the reason I'm asking this is because of some turmoil in my life.....I'm switching my major and I'm still a little unsure what to major in, but I know I could NEVER major in art or illustration at the school I'm currently at because of their total lack of respect for the type of art we display on this board.......art with characters. And unfortunately, I think most schools out there are like that; they see comics/animation as a bad habit that they want to break you of rather than help you develp it.

Where do they get this mindset that any art form made popular after the Middle Ages can't possibly be valid? How can artists, people who pride themselves on being more sensitive to the world and emotions than others, go around thinking "art is what WE think it is: you are wrong, your art won't last."

My personal favorite though is when they insult my style as being "non-autobiographical". Do these people know what autobiographical MEANS????? Every time I draw, even if I'm drawing an established character (or my own creation), it is autobiographical.....of course there are greater and lesser extents of this, but you don't need to draw a self-portriat in charcoal, with your eyes where your nose should be and title it "Myself; Conflicted" or some nonsense like that to be autobiographical! ARRRRRRGH!!!!!!

Furthermore, it seems like having a passion for your art is a liability rather than a benefit......teachers resent you for it. They failed at becoming successful independent artists (in most cases), so they have to teach, and the sign that you have the ambition to possibly accomplish what they couldn't gauls them to no end. So, they try to throw as many obstacles in your path as possible.

Sorry for this being a bit of a rant, but I'm curious to see if anyone else has had similar experiences with art classes. I know eventually I'll have to bite the bullet and take some anatomy classes if I want my drawing to really improve (technically anyway), but I'll simply be using the class to help me focus on improving in that area-nothing more. Because I feel like the 'art school' establishment has tried very hard to drive me away.
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Old 05-02-2001, 01:40 PM   #2   [permalink]
Nairohe
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lemme rant too before my lunch is finished... Art is rebellion. My art teacher's never really taught me anything new but inspired me and taught me how to critic and to judge, but not the skill. I have been told many times not to draw the way i post most of my fanart here but to get away from there.... ehehe... they seem to treat "anime" as a no"class" underground art such as grafitti(which on its own is art inself...)

I dont see why people have to consider anything flashy, insane, eccentric and old century as the standard art. art is expression and projecting yourself through tangible expression... its' just not fair... grrr...

so far i've developed two styles... one's anime and the other is traditional art. if you compare my art work the other just doesn't look like the later... its insane... i guess i just developed it that way in a way to "please" the teachers and to "pass" the class at teh same time... it does help... you have to realize that you learn a skill. skill is different from talent. IN the end, using whatever resources you have is what makes you an artist, not what is dictated to you.

i'll ramble some more once i get back home... hah!
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Old 05-02-2001, 02:22 PM   #3   [permalink]
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style you will form on your own but a class is a good place to learn technique and layout and how to make a good picture a good composition. a class will aslo teach you different medians and techniques that you might find you like better. overall i would suggest an art class.
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Old 05-02-2001, 03:31 PM   #4   [permalink]
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Yui-sama I'll lay it to you like this on how I feel about the subject. To be perfectly honest I haven't learned a damn thing from any art class I have ever taken (aside from the ability to con my teacher into letting us skip so we could go smoke cigartettes and eat burger king)... I begged and yearned to at least be taught basic anatomy and composition skill sbut all i got was contour line drawing (I hate that) and worksheets... which honestly I could have learned just as easily sitting on my lazy butt at home. I'm still no where near where I need to be but at the school i'm going to I never will be *sighs*

There is a college though in the US (I don't know where you live so I thought I would add that) It's called the Savannah College of Art and Design (it's in Savannah GA)... it's where I'm currently trying to one day attend but it's really expensive *sighs* oh but um... the point of me mentioning it is that they have an actual sequential art major... in other words you could be going to college to learn how to draw and create art in manga/comic book form. Needless to say the sheer thought of it makes me drool but... as for now I personally am still trying to find a way to get into a good art school but just practicing until my financial situation improves x_x
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Old 05-02-2001, 04:40 PM   #5   [permalink]
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Talking

Okay!!! Let me rant now!


Firstly, I study graphic arts (WHAT THE ****?! You're probably thinking?). Well, long story.

(this turned out longer than expected but please read it all)

But the TAFE I go to teaches life drawing, drawing (life drawings with objects instead of people), illustration and alot of computer subjects. It is to teach us hw to design or use our natural skills without the aid of computers (which is what alot of graphic designers lack these days unfortunately).

I guess in many ways, all my peers really appreciate my free hand skills 'cause it is such a rare talent and I apply it into my graphic designs. BUT, they don't like me using it too much in case I pigeon hole myself. From where I come from, my style of art will never get me a job unless I start my own manga/comic company (which is my plan in the near future). So I try very hard not to use my style of art in alot of my assignments because it won't look too good for my portfolio.

On to your main question: Did it help?
I've been taught the following skills and I use them all to a slightly above average level: (not bragging, just showing you the possibilities which I would have never discovered if I didn't go to this school).

I can/learnt :
the finer art of shading and it's proper teachings
Use Pencils grey or colour with some nifty tricks
markers
gouche(a type of very versatile paint)
charcoal
tech pen skills
and of course photoshop.

and lastly my teachers care about all their students and their futures which really help so that is a major factor too.


What do I do with all these talents? I draw anime characters with them! Isn't that cool? I knew alot before I started school, but I learnt so many things I never would have.

So it comes down to this: Do use all this money on education to fulfill your life's ambition to draw anime despite the fact that you may not do any in class or draw stuff you may not appreciate, or go about self teaching yourself and pursue a happier form of study?

And I take it that you did visual arts? Thanks for reading hope that helped! (WHEW!)
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Old 05-02-2001, 05:03 PM   #6   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ikari_Asuka_Langley
There is a college though in the US (I don't know where you live so I thought I would add that) It's called the Savannah College of Art and Design (it's in Savannah GA)... it's where I'm currently trying to one day attend but it's really expensive *sighs* oh but um... the point of me mentioning it is that they have an actual sequential art major... in other words you could be going to college to learn how to draw and create art in manga/comic book form.
*drool* geez, that makes me wanna get better at my anime style!

well, on topic... I have learned quite a bit from teachers... but I learned more from myself. I think it's well worth going to class andtaking what they have to offer... doing their assignments, getting thrie grading... just as long as you don't change for them...

I make it my goal to do what I like but just make the teacher I did it to their fashion... I just think that art teachers think they are the last say in how you should draw, and if they don't agree with your style... they will try to change you to their liking

and Ikari_Asuka_Langley have you posted any of yer work yet? I wanna see some!
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Old 05-02-2001, 05:56 PM   #7   [permalink]
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*Starts crying* I just went to Nairohe's fanart section on the link in her sig. I wish I could draw half that good. I like your artwork, it is great. (Ok, this is embarassing, I am a guy, I can't cry over art, but I wish I could draw like that.) Very nice (Yes I know that is not a technical art critique term, but still, I am nearly speachless.)
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Old 05-02-2001, 06:31 PM   #8   [permalink]
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Um I put up a drawing titled "naru narusegawa" she's a character form love hina but everyone says I make her look like she's from Oh my goddess... (hey i can't help it kousuke is one of my hero's ne?) Um... but I dunno actually my best advice to anyone is milk EVERYONE you come across for all the knowledeg you can... as for CC and ask about techniques... people love it when other people ask to... well i do anyway and I love to help when i can ^_^... but I still say i have learned more from friends and books then school. And um... actually I've been tossing around hosting a place for online comics... so if anyone else is interested in the idea I would love to hear what you think... there is strngth in numbers right?
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Old 05-02-2001, 07:20 PM   #9   [permalink]
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It seems like everyone has had the same problems.....art teachers who want to turn you into a 'fine' artist and have no respect for what you love to do. The thing is, the same thing happens whenever there's a new movement in art....like when impressionism came out, all the Romanticist/Neoclassists would balk at it and say "ah it's just a bunch of kids who can't hack it messin' around, it'll never last!", and now of course Impressionism is given a lot of credit in the evolution of art in the modern Era. And of course even more of that kind of backlash was present in the 20's when abstraction, surrealizm, cubism and all those schools of art came out. You'd think people would learn by now that art changes......hell, you could argue that art IS change.....but I'll step off the soapbox now.

I was thinking of majoring in English, but I think I'm going to go for visual arts now and just do what a lot of you are doing, using the class for what you can get out of it, because there's a limit to how much you can learn by just doing your own projects........I mean, I think you learn a tremendous amount on your own when you first start, but then you hit a platuea where you keep drawing the same sorts of things over and over again just because they're safe and you know you can do them already......or at least that's the point I'm at.

Ikari_Asuka, I'm sort of in the same boat. I wouldn't mind going to an art school, but they're all private and expensive, so I have to stay at my icky state school (blech-ack I shouldn't say that, they give me money) I have a friend that goes to Savannah and seems to like it, but she's not doing sequential art so I don't know what that program is like.....the nearest place to me would be School of Visual Arts in NYC, but then again there's the money thing....................................I'll shut up with that now.

Oh yeah, and I'm trying to get an online comic started.....I've been in the idea phase for about two years I will start mine this year! I will I will! Ahem, we should discuss I don't know if sharing a site would necessarily be a good idea, but at the very least we could brainstorm online manga (I'd start a new thread but I just typed a novel. Someone start an Online manga planning thread!......yeah you in the pink shirt! Snooooooze.....zzzzzz
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Old 05-02-2001, 07:57 PM   #10   [permalink]
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Yui-sama

Well I dunno My plan is for more of a link exchange kind of idea... sort of a main plave for people to come and find links to other series and stuff.. i dunno if you're on AIM post me and we can talk about it ok? But I dunno I think... in the art world I think of my teachers this way: keep your friends close and your enemies even closer ne?
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Old 05-02-2001, 08:00 PM   #11   [permalink]
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Wow, all your teachers must suck. I feel so sorry for you all....
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Old 05-02-2001, 08:05 PM   #12   [permalink]
Ikari_Asuka_Langley
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dude my last art teacher was a total fruit... and if i didn't draw the way that they wanted me to they would fail me or destroy it for being evil x_x
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Old 05-02-2001, 08:07 PM   #13   [permalink]
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What type of stuff did you have to draw in your classes?
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Old 06-02-2001, 12:38 AM   #14   [permalink]
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Damn....everyone ranted already. Oh well, I expressed my opinion about art classes in another thread I believe...
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Old 06-02-2001, 05:54 PM   #15   [permalink]
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Two of my art teachers really sucked! They showed favortism towards some students. I wasn't jealous of the students--hell I'll admit they were awesome artists! But the teacher's never really helped anyone else in the class when the time came, and that wasn't fair. One of those teachers has a caricature I did of Bill Clinton which he swore he gave back to me (which he NEVER did). Another teacher told me I'd never make as a comic book artist just to be mean. Fortunately, I didn't care because I'd plan on doing other things in art anway. But the point is, that's not what you say to a student, especially with a giving some kind of reason! I'm done ranting now.

I want to build a profolio to use in later years, but at the college I'm at now, they're really anal about letting non-art-school students take art classes. They put you on a waitlist with 20 other people, then you're picked by seniority...if other students drop. It's really annoying.
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