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Old 05-08-2002, 11:26 PM   #1   [permalink]
James
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Death & Rebirth.....your thoughts?

Just figured I'd see what everyone thought of the Manga release of D/R. Not so much the whole Rebirth/EOE replacement thing, but just the overall movie and DVD in general.

I was overall pleased with the release though I did have a few minor complaints here and there...

I thought the menu's were most excellent. Ecspecially the main menu. I don't think they could have done that any better really. One thing I found kind of annoying was the whole dubbing for Death. Being I'd seen the whole series already every time I heard anyone say a line it just sounded funny since it wasn't the way it was originally dubbed for the ADV release. Rebirth on the other hand sounded great since it wasn't anything I'd seen yet.

Another thing that I noticed was the pronounciations of both Eva and Kaworu's names. Now I can see why they might say Eva differently. Heck for all I know it's the correct way to pronounce Eva and ADV dubbed it wrong this whole time. But what about Kaworu!? It just doesn't sound right the way Manga had it...

All in all I thought it was a most excellent movie. Some might say it could have been done a little better, but for what it is I think it stands pretty well on it's own. I'm sure we'll see another release of it sooner or later either way.

Well, think I'll go watch it again...
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Old 05-08-2002, 11:53 PM   #2   [permalink]
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Yeah the menus were amazing, i mean i could just watch that for an hour, and while the dubbing suffered here and there, especially Hyuga!, it was great and im happy theyre finally out.
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Old 06-08-2002, 01:15 AM   #3   [permalink]
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People can complain about the whole EOE/Rebirth thing all they want, but i still thouroughly (sp?) enjoyed watching it. The cliffhanger ending is killing me!

I thing the best part (other than the movie) had to be the voice-over commentary. Fear the Shadow Bone!
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Old 06-08-2002, 01:52 AM   #4   [permalink]
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I don't get why everyone is complaning about this rebirth/EoE thing. I guess it hasn't clicked that rebirth is just the first half hour of EoE. The only difference between the rebirth on this DVD and the other ones is that it is of better video and audio quality. I guess people just wanted poor quality over better quality. Just read EvaOtaku's thoughts about the DVD. www.evaotaku.com is his site if anyone doesn't know.

The menu's are just EXCELLENT. THey are very chilling and nothing could have been better than they were.

As for the dubbing. I think it was great concidereing that manga took over the series, when all the previous dubbing was done by ADV. So I give them compliments on getting most of the original cast back together. And all in all, it was good.

Overall the DVD far surpassed my expectations. I thought that it wouldn't be that good, just because manga was making it. But it just blew me away. I think they did a really great job.

It's been a while, but I finally have the gut feeling of pure anticipation for the next Eva film, just like I did when the DVD's were being released. I can't wait for the EoE to come out!
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Old 06-08-2002, 01:53 AM   #5   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
People can complain about the whole EOE/Rebirth thing all they want, but i still thouroughly (sp?) enjoyed watching it. The cliffhanger ending is killing me!

I thing the best part (other than the movie) had to be the voice-over commentary. Fear the Shadow Bone!
Yeah I've only gotten into the first 15 mins of the commentary stuff. I'll probably listen to all of that tomorrow sometime. From the sound of it they did their damnest to give us a good Death & Rebirth and all in all I think they did a pretty good job.

EOE's gonna be something to see.
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Old 06-08-2002, 07:27 PM   #6   [permalink]
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At first I was surprised with D&R, It wasn't what I expected. I thought it would be something completely different. But when I noticed Death was recapping the lives of most of the characters, I was a bit upset, I payed 20 bucks for this and only 20-30 minutes of kick ass action? But after re-watching it, I enjoyed it for some reason, there's some stuff that either I didn't see, or that I just failed to notice. All in all it was good. I have yet to watch the commentary, hopefully I'll do it when I get the DVD back from my friend, who I let borrow it for vacation. I agree, the menus were well done, and the voice acting, while sketchy at parts, was overall pretty good. What I don't get is what you guys keep talking about with the whole Rebirth/EOE thing? Whats the big deal?
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Old 06-08-2002, 09:06 PM   #7   [permalink]
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Well I have yet to watch it but I'm glad to hear that it turned out well.
As for the rebirth/eoe thing go here:
http://animeboards.com/t43478/s.html
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Old 06-08-2002, 09:16 PM   #8   [permalink]
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the extras are really nice, and i thought the double sided dvd was totally cool (Never seen one before). I have mixed feelings about the subtitles though, on the one hand, they did a really good job translating the text and such, so it was easier for me to understand than some fansubs i'd seen earlier, but on the other hand, I noticed some spelling mistakes/incorrectly spelt names/other minor inconsistancies. I havent heard the dub yet, probably wont for a while, due to my intense hatred of dubs in general. The opening menu music rules too btw. Over all im pretty darn happy to have it, and cannot wait for EoE
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Old 06-08-2002, 10:05 PM   #9   [permalink]
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Yeah I noticed a few spelling errors in the Maji Files as well. Guess they didn't bother to go through and spell check everything.

I just got done with the directors commentary and thought it was pretty good too. Well worth the 115 minutes it took to listen too.
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Old 06-08-2002, 10:17 PM   #10   [permalink]
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I'm not gonna waste time writing a totally new review, here's mine, which I wrote a few days ago:

---

After a half a dozen or so delays, totaling over a year, Manga Entertainment has finally released the first of the two Eva movies on DVD in region 1. Was the wait worth it? That depends. This is a very good release of a very good movie. But when you really get down to it, this (and its counterpart End of Eva) will not go down as the best anime on DVD releases of the year, something that they should have been, considering how high profile these movies are.

Evangelion: Death and Rebirth is the first of 2 Eva movies that were released in 1997. For those who don't know the story behind the movies, I'll give you a brief explanation. If you have not viewed at least episodes 1-24 of Evangelion at this time, I'd recommend stopping now and watching them before continuing. Although this movie is partially a recap one, you really need to see the series beforehand in this situation to enjoy the movies.

Neon Genesis Evangelion was a huge hit when it aired on Japanese TV in 1995 and 1996. Throughout the first 24 episodes the show constantly outdid itself. The show got better and better as it went on. Everyone was expecting an awe-inspiring ending. Instead, they got something totally different. Due to censorship pressure caused by Eva itself with scenes earlier in the series, and the small budget Gainax was working on, Eva's original ending was axed, and replaced with a horrific couple of episodes that failed to finish the series at all, relying on an intense character study of Shinji Ikari instead of resolving things and ending the show. Naturally the public was very upset with the ending, and it wasn't long before an Eva movie was announced. Certainly made sense, considering Eva was such a popular show Gainax could make a lot of money off of, and now the original ending would have been able to be made on a higher budget without having to worry about pressure from the television network. Plans eventually changed and instead of one movie, two were announced. The first of those 2 movies is this, Death and Rebirth. The second one, coming out in September of 2002, is End of Eva.

The first part of this movie is 'Death', which is essentially a summary of the first 24 episodes of the series. This movie is basically the typical recap. It's roughly an hour or so long and focuses mostly on the characters of the show, although it does provide us with replays of the most important Angel battles. I found myself quite pleased with the actual content of this movie; rather than wasting time (although there were a few slip ups that I'll mention) it almost exclusively cut to the chase and showed us only important stuff. Most of the content in the filler episodes in the middle of the series is left out entirely. This recap movie essentially captures the best that episodes 1-24 of Eva have to offer. As an added bonus, there is also a fairly good amount of reanimated footage, where the people have been completely reanimated. This is quite noticeable considering they redid some of the more inept footage from early in the show. Finally, there is also a small amount (totaling 5 minutes or so) of brand new scenes, such as video footage of a lab right before Second Impact, and a scene where Asuka talks to Kaji before what we see in episode 8 of the series. Thats just a small sample of what is there. As I mentioned earlier, there were a few slip-ups I didn't like about how Gainax prepared this movie, notably the inclusion of the 2 infamous pauses from the series. At only 60 minutes or so in length, time is very important, and they wasted some of it on two scenes that I'm very critical of.

From a technical standpoint, Manga did a pretty good job with 'Death'. The translation was quite accurate, and there were no controversial overlays that plagued the first disc of the series. I only had 2 major complaints. The first was that multiple times in the movie, there is a conversation going on between a few people in addition to a voiceover. Only the voiceover is transcribed on the screen, not the conversation. I was not particularly pleased that Manga left a translation of those out. The second involves the quick flashes of kanji we see on the screen throughout the movie. Now this is partially Gainax's fault for having them go by so quickly, but I felt that Manga didn't let the subtitle remain on the screen long enough. If you blink, you'll miss them. Outside of that, have no problems whatsoever with the job they did on the subtitled version.

The second part of this movie is 'Rebirth'. Rebirth is totally brand new material, running for approximately 30 minutes. The story picks up where we left off at the end of episode 24. Asuka's in a coma, Shinji's in the worst state he's been in ever due to what happened with Kaworu, and NERV quickly finds itself under attack. That's as far as I'll go. I wouldn't dare spoil anything for anyone viewing either of these Eva movies. 'Rebirth' ends on a cliff hangar. You can see the remaining hour or so of new footage that ends Eva once and for all on the upcoming 'End of Evangelion' DVD. Like 'Death', Manga handled ‘Rebirth’ pretty well, although there are some rather annoying occurrences where they were way off on the translation. Since it is a spoiler, I won't specify what those big errors were, but if you're a pretty big fan of Eva you should be able to figure out what I'm talking about.

Now there is one particular big problem with 'Rebirth'. You're not getting the real 'Rebirth'. After Gainax made 'Rebirth' in 1997, they edited it and added another hour of footage on to it, creating 'End of Evangelion'. In this case, Manga hasn't provided us with the original 'Rebirth', but rather that footage from End of Evangelion, followed by the proper end credits thats in the real 'Rebirth'. While this isn't a really big deal, I want to make this very clear to those buying this DVD solely for the purpose of seeing 'Rebirth'. You're not really getting it. If that's what determines you buying this DVD, you may want to skip this release. Normally I wouldn't be too critical about something like this, but since Manga spent so much time working on this and it is such a high profile release, you'd figure they could get it done correctly. Doesn't detract from the experience, but it is something I felt I needed to bring up in this review.

Just like with the series, the dub is quite a disappointment. The looser, much less serious tone is very noticeable, and in my opinion detracts from the quality of the show. All the main actors from the series have returned, although the vast majority of the characters in the movie (Kaworu, Fuyutsuki, all 3 NERV Technicians, Touji, Kensuke, Hikari, etc...) have new voices. None of them improve on the actors they replaced. Maya still sounds like a man. Hyuga still sounds too goofy. Terms are still pronounced incorrectly. And so on... This dub is definitely one to avoid, and unfortunately pulls down the audio grade for this disc.

Finally, we arrive at the extras. This disc is packed with extras, so much so that they had to use both sides of the DVD for this release: one for the movie subbed/dubbed and the other side with the director’s commentary and other extras. As for the Directors Commentary itself? Its done by Amanda Winn Lee (Director, voice of Rei), Jason C. Lee(Voice of Aoba) and Taleison Jaffe. It too is rather disappointing and is downright embarrassing at times. They spend a lot of time on the various symbolism in Eva, but get many of them wrong (most notably saying the Evas were based off of Babylonian Gods when they were based off the Japanese 'Oni'). Although she's the director and the script writer, Amanda Winn Lee provides nothing useful in the Directors Commentary and does little more than continuously joke about things that aren't funny. They tell us multiple times how they purposely put goofy things in the dub, such as using camel sounds for Zeruel or adding lines that were never there simply because they felt like it. They can't even pronounce 'Eva' properly. It truly is a shame that instead of getting Director's Commentary from someone relevant, we get it from these clowns. Now there certainly are some good observations and information in the Commentary. But the things I brought up really overshadow them.

Another interesting extra on this disc is called 'Mokuji', which is a useful menu that pops up during the movie that will enable you to see descriptions of various useful terms from the movie. These descriptions come from the Magi Archives, the most useful extra on the disc. This contains over 50 descriptions of various terms, characters and mechas from the series. If you've been investigating Eva on the web for years its nothing new, but this will be very useful to those who don't. The photo gallery contained on the disc is rather small and doesn't have anything of notice. Finally, we have some great trailers, over 5 minutes worth for 'Death & Rebirth' and an 'End of Evangelion' one that's roughly 90 seconds long. The only big problem with this is that Manga didn't even bother to translate most of them. You'd figure with all the time they spent on this release, they could at least do that.

Evangelion: Death and Rebirth is an extremely high profile and for the most part, well put together release. The extras aren't perfect by any means, but are plentiful. The dub may be bad, but its not like that prevents you from watching it in Japanese. The music sounds wonderful, the animation and video quality is nearly flawless. Although this release will probably be a disappointment for the hardcore Eva fans out there who have been waiting for this release for years, it is quite a good release in my eyes and I would recommend it to anyone who has seen Eva the series.
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Old 08-08-2002, 10:05 AM   #11   [permalink]
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More than a "recap"

Everybody says that Death is a recap, but they don't mention that there is actually quite a bit of new animation (reanimated scenes) not seen in the original US TV series release.

Also, many of the scenes in the series are presented in a non-chronological manner to give them new meaning. It provides a more psycological insight to the series.

Most significant, I feel, is that they movie opens with the scene of Misato and Kaji lying in bed together. Evangelion is essentially the story of the emotional walls that separate individuals, and sex is perhaps the only act that truly brings two individuals close together (contrast to Shinji's scene with Asuka at the opening of Rebirth).

Other than, that is, the nine months you spend in your mother's womb. At this time you are literally bonded to another human, emotionally and physically. Of course, Susan Napier observed in her book http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...sbn=0312238630Anime that the Eva series are nothing more than "pregnant women."
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Old 08-08-2002, 11:54 AM   #12   [permalink]
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The one thing that really ticked me off about the dub was Kaworu's new VA...

The old one was just so perfect. He was like Gendo's VA. You just couldn't get him any better. Not that this new VA doesn't sound like him. Just the fact that he went and changed lines in that final conversation between Shinji and Kaworu. If you look at the subtitles the original VA for Kaworu pretty much read the lines as they originally were in the Japanese version. That kind of just ruined that whole scene for me. The original dub was so much better in my opinion...
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Old 08-08-2002, 12:23 PM   #13   [permalink]
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What about Hyuga

I actually didn't notice a difference with Kaworu...ditto for Maya. Misato was still Allison Keith but she sounded more professional somehow.

Then there is Hyuga: In the orginal dub, Hyuga's VA made him sound like a nerd...in Manga's version he sounds way different. How can I put this...he has SOUL (think Chef from South Park).

Meanwhile Hikari's VA sounds just BAD - flinchingly so (ok, the commentary points out that her original voice actress fell off the face of the earth).

Kyouzo Fuyutsuki - the VA is trying to sound bored/elitist but keeps fading in and out. sounds a bit to young and kinda amaturish (think Eva-R voice actors)...oh well.

Some of the retranslations didn't work: esp -
Asuka: "Because it would be very convenient." (monotone/matter of factly)
vs. (original)
"Because it would be....conveeenient!"

By contrast, Gendo does sound terrific...even more cold then in the original. I actually prefer his voice acting in DaR!

Spike Spenser sounds great as well. Just how I imagined it would be. Can't wait until EoE!!!!!!!
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Old 09-08-2002, 02:41 PM   #14   [permalink]
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voice actors

I spent most of the DVD trying to discern whether or not Kaworu and Maya had the same voice actors as in the original dub. It wasn't obvious at first. By the end of the DVD it had become clear that Maya wasn't the same and I wasn't able to tell about Kaworu until I heard the commentary. I was impressed, though, that it took me that long to figure out.

I didn't think Hyuga's new voice was appropriate for the character they were trying to make him out to be in the series.

I was, however, overall very pleased with the dub and the choices they made for both Death and Rebirth...especially Shinji's self-assessment in the opening sequence of Rebirth.
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Old 09-08-2002, 06:10 PM   #15   [permalink]
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Your right. You really can't tell much of a difference between Kaworu's two VA's. But you can see what got changed in that final conversation between Shinji and Kaworu down in Terminal Dogma if you switch on the subtitles. The original VA pretty much read the thing line for line and on top of that he made it sound awesome. I'm not all that sure why they'd go and change the lines like they did for the dub. I personnally think it sounded much better the way it originally was. But I guess you can judge for yourself if you'd like...
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