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Old 26-10-2001, 09:45 AM   #1   [permalink]
Nagha's revenge
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Rev : Eva-Childeren-Soul-Second-Third Impact bout * spoilers included *

Ok where to start ...
Long long ago I and Lordbryn had a wee bit of a discussion about the childerens souls. I said they didn't have one Lordbryn said they did. Wich basically led to us writing our own evanelions. The arguement kinda ended suddenly with me finding less and less time to spend on the internet and on this board. Now it seems myLord has chalanged me again..

Now that was then and this is now:
Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

BUT if that's true than they wouldn't need to look for the childeren cuz they just could've used anybody. As long as they had the bodies of their parents/mother.
Quote:
Originally posted by Lordbryn


If I remember Nagha, that was a BIG part of our discussion last time we tackled this arguement

When we look at the children picked, they were really just anybody. We tend to look at the first three children special and ignore all of the other candidates.

As it stands, yes, it seems 'interesting' that all three of the children are special connected to the main players in NERV. Rei the clone, Asuka the daughter of a head researcher, and Shinji the son of Commander Ikari, but if you look at the facts, NERV didn't go out of its way to pick these specific children, but instead was stuck with them.

Rei's 'special' status had to be hidden so the easiest way was to keep her as a pilot so she was given access to NERV without attracting any unwanted attention. Both Asuka and Shinji had to be pilots due to reasons already explained in this arguement. Their mothers were both test pilots and their souls had found homes in unit's 01 and 02, remember, neither of them were chosen to be pilots until AFTER their mother's accidents.

So the first 3 pilots NERV had to be picked no matter what, but if you look at the rest of the students that were candidates, they really are just that, nobodies. Just random choices IMO, with just 1 other factor making them special. This is just speculation, but it would appear that all the students that are candidates have parents that work for NERV in some way. We know both Toji and Kensuke's father, *and even Toji's grandfather it would seem* work for NERV. Kensuke was able to get the departure time for Eva 01 and 00 during the 5th angel attack from his dad's computer so it's fairly obvious he works for them in some way. Toji mentioned how his dad and grandfather work in a lab, so it isn't as clear as Kensuke's father, but hints at it. **Hikari you get no idea one way or another** So following the none of them have mothers evidence so the classmates probably don't either, the job arguement works in the same way.

Gendo Ikari was a master of manipulation, and the easiest way in manipulating the children who would pilot any potential Eva was by already controlling their parents, **which was a double shot for Toji considering his sister** So a fourth level candidate's only specifics would include no mother and parents employed at NERV.

As for their age, that might not be as important in synching with the eva as it would be for Gendo to control the pilots. Anyone younger wouldn't be mature enough to handle the training and control the eva responsibly, any older and they would be hard to control as they be more mature and independent of relying on adult control **Commander Ikari** 14's a perfect age, with the kids going through puberty, they are more unsure and easier to control.
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Old 26-10-2001, 09:58 AM   #2   [permalink]
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The short synopsis I promised (only got a couple of minutes left ... )

My point was souls and AT-fields that a body turns into LCL without a soul (thus without an AT-field). And that if you think that a body WILL turn into LCL without a soul, the body (after death) should either turn into LCL or the soul still resides in the body. If you choose to stick to your belief that a body WITHOUT a soul will turn into LCL dead bodies will still have theire souls thus you can use them for EVA's. And since there are a lot of ppl with dead relatives/parents NERVE/SEELE would have a plethora of choices and would just be stuck with (not only Shinji, Rei and Asuka but) all the childeren and the Marduk institute would be useless. Cause they could get anyone to pilot an Eva myLord especially with the assumption you make that age has very little to do with synching or piloting Evas. Now to me this here doesn't make sense and would be a waste of recources if it were true Ghendo is to smart a man to waste so much. So I say the childeren have no souls. That's why they have to be a certain age cuz after the second impact the ' production ' of souls ended...

I'm outa time I will continue within 12 hrs plz make my life easier and respond (anyone).

For further reference:

http://animeboards.com/showthread.ph...9&pagenumber=1
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Old 26-10-2001, 10:30 AM   #3   [permalink]
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So it is your contention that the Children have no souls at all?

In Episode 14 Rei called the Entry plug, "The throne of the soul".

In Episode 20 when Shinji loses physical form in the Entry Plug this passage is said:

Quote:
Ritsuko: All of the materials which formed Shinji-kun are kept in the plug. What should be called his soul exits there. In fact, his ego image gives pseudosubstance to his plugsuit.

Maya: Salvaging means making his body reconstructed and his soul fixed in it.
In Episode 25 Instrumentality is defined as "The complementation by the instrumentality of minds and soul." Shinji goes through it, so does Asuka and Rei. They have minds and souls.

Aside for the fact that I think that the Soul is what generates the AT Field which then in turn maintains the physical form, I think it is clear that the children do indeed have souls. If they don’t have souls what then does the Eva “Synch” with?
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Old 26-10-2001, 11:04 AM   #4   [permalink]
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MDWigs, you can't push that Synch argument cuz the dummy plug system doesn't have a souls and the Eva still synchs with it. However, the old statement by Rei that the soul provides the AT-Field that gives it form will work for all things alive. As for things that die... hard to theorise but as with all things it probably depends on the process. In EOE, the souls were suddenly freed hence the bodies "popped." A normal death probably involves the soul realising that body is no longer functional and leaves it. This difference may be all that's required to maintain the form of a dead body.


Nagha: Yes, the kids have souls or they wouldn't have "form" in the LCL sea. I also refer to the statement made by Rei in EOE and the stuff MDWigs posts.

Last thing. Whilst production of new souls stopped, there are still souls that are salvaged from people that died. I think Fuyutsuki said this at some point and it has also been mentioned on this board somewhere before.

Note: I know the info is right, though the names may be wrong.
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Old 26-10-2001, 11:38 AM   #5   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge
The short synopsis I promised (only got a couple of minutes left ... )

My point was souls and AT-fields that a body turns into LCL without a soul (thus without an AT-field). And that if you think that a body WILL turn into LCL without a soul, the body (after death) should either turn into LCL or the soul still resides in the body. If you choose to stick to your belief that a body WITHOUT a soul will turn into LCL dead bodies will still have theire souls thus you can use them for EVA's. And since there are a lot of ppl with dead relatives/parents NERVE/SEELE would have a plethora of choices and would just be stuck with (not only Shinji, Rei and Asuka but) all the childeren and the Marduk institute would be useless. Cause they could get anyone to pilot an Eva myLord especially with the assumption you make that age has very little to do with synching or piloting Evas. Now to me this here doesn't make sense and would be a waste of recources if it were true Ghendo is to smart a man to waste so much. So I say the childeren have no souls. That's why they have to be a certain age cuz after the second impact the ' production ' of souls ended...

I'm outa time I will continue within 12 hrs plz make my life easier and respond (anyone).

For further reference:

http://animeboards.com/showthread.ph...9&pagenumber=1
You are making my point for me Nagha. SEELE/NERV DID have as you put it, a plethora of choices. Remember Kaji's investigation into the Marduk institute, 106 of the 108 organizations that supposedly made up that institution didn't exist **and it seems highly likely the other 2 did not as well though we never do see Kaji go investigate the last 2 in the series** SO, the big expensive process you give credit too for finding the special children just doesn't exist. NERV/SEELE didn't spend all that money and resources to find those children it was just a front.

NERV and SEELE had to hide the real reasoning behind the selection of the eva pilots. People like to ask questions and telling people that you were plucking the soul out of someone's dead mother and using their kid to pilot an eva just wouldn't fly, BUT throw in a lot of technical mumble jumble **just look to any random Star Trek episode for inspiration** make it look like there are 108 large corporations looking for these pilots and people seem satisified. Remember, SEELE and NERV were still accountable to governments and the UN for costs and support. Sure they manipulated them **like in EoE** and this was just another manipulation to hide the truth. So it was just NERV and SEELE randomly picking kids that fit what they needed.

My comment on that they were stuck with Rei, Shinji, and Asuka is due to the fact that Rei had to be a part of NERV and the only way a 14 year old girl wouldn't attract attention in the facility is if she was a pilot. Shinji had to be a pilot because of Yui's accident and their was NO way Gendo was going to mess with Yui's soul by replacing the core. That leaves Asuka being the only one that is replacable as a pilot, but I have two reasons why they didn't. One, she already fit the basic parameters I outlined in the last post so why screw with it and two, I think in the beginning of the eva building, they had basic ideas of what to do, but it wasn't perfected yet. Unit 02 definitely had a resident soul, why screw with that and have something go wrong the second time.

Why, 14, I don't know. Maybe there is some scientific answer for it. I suggested it was because such a young age would be easier for NERV to manipulate and control. Maybe for the mother/child bond to work, they have to be younger **since parent child relationships tend to break up the older one gets** Maybe that's why Asuka had such a hard time synching with Unit 02 as the series goes along. By rejecting herself and the memory of her mother so much, her synching with the eva was impossible.

Lastly, I just don't see any support for your arguement that none of the children had souls. I remember you had used biblical passages from the last time we debated this if I remember correctly, but while Anno definitely found inspiration from the Bible and other religious texts, does not mean that if a passage is in the Bible it HAS to be in NGE. You speculate that the children have no souls, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence to support that in the series.
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Old 26-10-2001, 11:41 AM   #6   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by rei-gouki
However, the old statement by Rei that the soul provides the AT-Field that gives it form will work for all things alive. As for things that die... hard to theorise but as with all things it probably depends on the process. In EOE, the souls were suddenly freed hence the bodies "popped." A normal death probably involves the soul realising that body is no longer functional and leaves it. This difference may be all that's required to maintain the form of a dead body.
That is a VERY interesting theory rei, I don't think I've heard that one before. Perhaps in the normal process, a soul leaves the body slowly over a long period of time whereas Third Impact did some immeadite surgery. Maybe if the soul leaves slowly in natural death, it leaves an empty shell behind, but all the dead in NERV after the fire fight, their souls didn't have time to leave naturally and were pulled along for the ride.
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Old 26-10-2001, 12:27 PM   #7   [permalink]
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It's pretty much general concensus that people that don't have souls wouldn't like music, laugh, cry, love, etc. Basically no emotions, aka like Rei: she doesn't have her own soul, she has the soul of Lilith, but it's not human so she barely shows any emotion, but it does develop some human feelings later on (crying in eps 23). If the Children didn't have any souls they'd all probably be like the happy Rei's in the tank, not really people, with no real emotions.

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Old 26-10-2001, 06:20 PM   #8   [permalink]
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Great everyones against me . So now to make a stand ......

Well let's start shall we. First up at bat MDWigs (Everthing in bold is a quote):

In Episode 14 Rei called the Entry plug, "The throne of the soul".

I answer with a question who's soul ? That of the pilot or the Eva ? Cuz the angels lifesource is also rested in this "ball".

In Episode 20 when Shinji loses physical form in the Entry Plug this passage is said: ....etc

Now I did say don't confuse the soul with the mind. His will and drive who he is and his essence was in the plug. That is not what I call his soul because his soul does not have memory or any of those corporial add ons.. His sense of self was what was there not his soul.

In Episode 25 Instrumentality is defined as "The complementation by the instrumentality of minds and soul." Shinji goes through it, so does Asuka and Rei. They have minds and souls.

Now if they do not have souls what better way to coplement them then to fill them with (a) soul(s). This would also explane Shiji's aditude during instrumentalitie. Asside from that noone ever said that you have to have a soul to partake in instrumentality. Only thing you are certain of is that they have a mind.

Aside for the fact that I think that the Soul is what generates the AT Field which then in turn maintains the physical form, I think it is clear that the children do indeed have souls. If they don’t have souls what then does the Eva “Synch” with?

A popular arguement also the easiest one to deal with . Rei-gouki also partially voiced my theorie. What happen when everyone turned into LCL was that theire AT-fields collapsed/were destroyed. Now who sais that when you die your AT-field is detroyed ? It disapears/fades but it isn't destroyed, this is why everything doesn't turn into LCL WITHOUT a soul. this is also a way clones can be made since they have no soul to begin with. Like I stated earlier in another thread the turning into LCL is a reaction to Lillith's AT-field nothing else.
Now what do the pilots sync with if they have no souls .. well......
EZ they sync with the soul inside the eva, they sync it to theire body. Think about this if the pilot had a soul and thus a way to 'power' the eva and create an AT-field. Without an alien entity to interfere (I use the term alien as foreing not ET btw), that would be the ideal sollution. Cuz then it would merely be something that enhances and focusses your AT-field. Now you could argue that that's what they tried to do in the first place. But why on god green earth would you copy something you don't understand at all ? The logical thing to do would be to try and recreate things with the tools you know (that's what they tried with the nuclear robo 'eva' ). Yet this path wasn't chosen this was a concious choice. Then ofcourse the dummy plugs. They (of course) have no souls and they were (partially) based on research from the Rei clones I believe. Wich apparantly means that one soul can only inhabbit one body at a time and that a soul is not required for eva controlle. Then again Rei DID have a soul an pilotted EVA but she also had the worst sync of them all. Now you could say it is because they (her and her Eva didn't hhave a connection family or otherwise) but when you look at Asuka and her Eva who ruled in sync-rate land. She renounced her mother completely until the very end of the series. So this although an important factor is not conclusive for high syncs. So you can actually say that someone with a soul performes less than someone with (in this hypothetical).

Next Rei-Goki:
Last thing. Whilst production of new souls stopped, there are still souls that are salvaged from people that died. I think Fuyutsuki said this at some point and it has also been mentioned on this board somewhere before.

Two questions (no connection ment between the two): 1. Who would be the ones doing the salvaging? NERV ? SEELE ? 'HEAVEN' ?
2. If the dead keep on being recycled and souls continue to keep being made when will the the guff be empty ? Or perhaps the income of souls is just lower than the demand and childeren just keep on being born. Perhaps that is what SEELE and NERV are looking for those childeren. Asside from that who knows what happend to the souls during the second impact, if anyhing ?
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Old 26-10-2001, 07:28 PM   #9   [permalink]
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How can sense of self not = soul? What exactly do you consider the soul to be?
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Old 26-10-2001, 07:36 PM   #10   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lordbryn


You are making my point for me Nagha. SEELE/NERV DID have as you put it, a plethora of choices. Remember Kaji's investigation into the Marduk institute, 106 of the 108 organizations that supposedly made up that institution didn't exist **and it seems highly likely the other 2 did not as well though we never do see Kaji go investigate the last 2 in the series** SO, the big expensive process you give credit too for finding the special children just doesn't exist. NERV/SEELE didn't spend all that money and resources to find those children it was just a front.

NERV and SEELE had to hide the real reasoning behind the selection of the eva pilots. People like to ask questions and telling people that you were plucking the soul out of someone's dead mother and using their kid to pilot an eva just wouldn't fly, BUT throw in a lot of technical mumble jumble **just look to any random Star Trek episode for inspiration** make it look like there are 108 large corporations looking for these pilots and people seem satisified. Remember, SEELE and NERV were still accountable to governments and the UN for costs and support. Sure they manipulated them **like in EoE** and this was just another manipulation to hide the truth. So it was just NERV and SEELE randomly picking kids that fit what they needed.

My comment on that they were stuck with Rei, Shinji, and Asuka is due to the fact that Rei had to be a part of NERV and the only way a 14 year old girl wouldn't attract attention in the facility is if she was a pilot. Shinji had to be a pilot because of Yui's accident and their was NO way Gendo was going to mess with Yui's soul by replacing the core. That leaves Asuka being the only one that is replacable as a pilot, but I have two reasons why they didn't. One, she already fit the basic parameters I outlined in the last post so why screw with it and two, I think in the beginning of the eva building, they had basic ideas of what to do, but it wasn't perfected yet. Unit 02 definitely had a resident soul, why screw with that and have something go wrong the second time.

Why, 14, I don't know. Maybe there is some scientific answer for it. I suggested it was because such a young age would be easier for NERV to manipulate and control. Maybe for the mother/child bond to work, they have to be younger **since parent child relationships tend to break up the older one gets** Maybe that's why Asuka had such a hard time synching with Unit 02 as the series goes along. By rejecting herself and the memory of her mother so much, her synching with the eva was impossible.

Lastly, I just don't see any support for your arguement that none of the children had souls. I remember you had used biblical passages from the last time we debated this if I remember correctly, but while Anno definitely found inspiration from the Bible and other religious texts, does not mean that if a passage is in the Bible it HAS to be in NGE. You speculate that the children have no souls, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence to support that in the series.
Hey this arguement actually is pretty good .. I'm impressed !! Anyway I think I can actuall explane this one but I think it's going to be a long haul to do so ... :sigh: .. here goes.
The bulk of your arguement lies on the point that the pilot's were already planned BEFORE anything like an eva was created. Merely out of convinience.. right? So what if I say I agree. Really I do !! But in my version only a select few knew it would turn out like this.
Another hypothetical: What if you were SEELE and you found the dead sea scrolls in them the end of the world lie descibed before you. Now what if you would want to controlle the end of the world ? What would be the best way to controlle something, well that would be (I think) to know when it is coming and prepair for it. What I am trying to say is that SEELE triggerd the second impact in order to trigger the third. This way SEELE could controlle the way the whole thing panned out. Selecting ppl to lead and ppl to follow. Selecting pilots and Evas ploting a path. A path that NERVE should follow, there is a reason for Ghendo. And for his drive right ? Do you think it an accident (really ? Can you be that naive or am I just that paranoid ?). Just like Asuka's mom do you really think any of them even Ritsuko had a complete grasp of what was going on ? Everyone knows a bit and gives theire spin on the thing they see theire person taints their vision. Then only ppl who really know what is going on are Gendo and SEELE. Only Ghendo had other motives as well. He was given a way out but prefered to plot his own path along side it. That is why Ghendo and SEELE conflict with each other (but this you prolly already know).
So now we get to your arguments yes Marduk is a big dummy corp. I never said it wasn't. What I ment with my arguement about dead bodies and soules was purely to point out that even a grown personne could pilot an Eva if that applied (even Ghendo could pilot Eva-01 and be together with the soul of his Yui and decide the outcome of the third impact or even SEELE). If this were true it would trivialize piloting an Eva. The waste of recources would be the recources needed to create the Eva train the kids and support theire unstable psychies. Not to mention the value of the Eva's themselves wich could also be considered a recource. I you could have a choice of putting a well trained marine in there in stead of a lill' unstable kid(dummy plug theorie). Who would you choose ? Ghendo looks at everything from the-big-picture POV. After the third impact he will have his happy family back, that's all that matters AFTER... Eventhough Eva-01 is dear to him it is just a means to an end.

Now about the ages of the kidies well how many years did the second impact take place ? And why just take those kids ? Born on that day ? If you're saying all the parents were NERV/SEELE employees it just strengthens my position. And you know why I think those kids are chosen at that age. Ritsuko herself said that they were the only ones that could do it. And where the Evas are concerned she is an expert. Now if you're asking yourself why Marduk was created it's because, if you want to controlle something you don't want to show your hand until you have the game locked down. It was just to cover theire tracks.

Now why Asuka gets synced-out at the end. That is because she lost her identity. She lost her sence of self her essence/what made her unique or stand out maybe you could even call it selfesteem but it's more than that. It's the closest thing she has to a soul or (once again) essence. It's kind of hard to explane but when Shinji went 400 % and 'vanished' the only thing that remained was his sense of self. And Shinji defined himself through pain and the opinions of others. Asuka defined herself as being the best when she actually realised that she maybe could be not the best, well her world caved in. She became totally empty. Simply said there wasn't enough of here present to react with the Eva, like putting a dead persone inside.

Lastly( ) I have supported my no-soul theory right here. Granted it's alle circumstantial but since when did that stop a true Eva fan ? No I think you'll agree that your theories are just as circumstantial as mine only yours also support mine . So forget eatin' the next couple a weeks, forget school and start typin' !!!

P.s. I did rectify the whole letting the other thread die thing in intoducing this one didn't I ?

Now final victim Antioch-X:
That's just what I'm fighting 'general consensus' everything is not always everything. The only example you have is a girl WITH a soul. Asside from that it's a clone that grew up knowing she was expendable !! Would you be happy ? Knowing that you were not unique ? No scratch that .. That you were LESS than not unique, you can be replaced as easilly as toilet paper. THIS explanes Rei's disposition not her having Lillith's soul.

Thank you and g'night hope it all made sense it's been a really long long terribly long day ...
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Old 26-10-2001, 07:39 PM   #11   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timon
How can sense of self not = soul? What exactly do you consider the soul to be?
A gift something to get the motor running and keep the safetylight burning. But truly something to cherise..

Well actually not exactly .. It's hard to explane but it's more like your scent everyone has one. And it no longer serves any real pupose yet somehow it does define you and is a part of your persone/being. Yet it does not defin WHO you are, were or are going to be. Clear ? (personally I don't think so but hey .. )
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Old 26-10-2001, 10:22 PM   #12   [permalink]
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My stuff in bold.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge
Great everyones against me . So now to make a stand ......

Well let's start shall we. First up at bat MDWigs (Everthing in bold is a quote):

In Episode 14 Rei called the Entry plug, "The throne of the soul".

I answer with a question who's soul ? That of the pilot or the Eva ? Cuz the angels lifesource is also rested in this "ball".

The Eva's soul resides in the Core. So it seems did the Angels. The Entry plug is very different to the Core. The Entry Plug here is being called "The throne of the soul", not the Core. The Core contains the Eva's soul, the Entry Plug contains the pilot's soul.

In Episode 20 when Shinji loses physical form in the Entry Plug this passage is said: ....etc

Now I did say don't confuse the soul with the mind. His will and drive who he is and his essence was in the plug. That is not what I call his soul because his soul does not have memory or any of those corporial add ons.. His sense of self was what was there not his soul.


But Ritsuko and Maya both say "Soul". Maya basically says that they need to do the opposite of what happened to him. He lost physical from, and he soul was freed. They are trying to re-create his body and place his soul back in it.

I think that passage is a fairly clear indication that the Children have souls.


In Episode 25 Instrumentality is defined as "The complementation by the instrumentality of minds and soul." Shinji goes through it, so does Asuka and Rei. They have minds and souls.

Now if they do not have souls what better way to coplement them then to fill them with (a) soul(s). This would also explane Shiji's aditude during instrumentalitie. Asside from that noone ever said that you have to have a soul to partake in instrumentality. Only thing you are certain of is that they have a mind.


How can you say that? "The only thing you are certain of is that they have a mind". No that isn't true. I am certain that have souls as well. It clearly states "mind and soul".

The soul produces the AT Field. The AT Field maintains physical form. Without the AT Field we lose physical form and our souls are "released". To return to physical form we need to "trap" out souls within our bodies again, to make us separate once more for the rest of existance.
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Old 27-10-2001, 08:23 PM   #13   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs
The Eva's soul resides in the Core. So it seems did the Angels. The Entry plug is very different to the Core. The Entry Plug here is being called "The throne of the soul", not the Core. The Core contains the Eva's soul, the Entry Plug contains the pilot's soul.
[/B]
Hmm I recal SEELE also being called the same (althoug that was a title). The entry-plug is in the core. No they are not the same thing (better cut that one off at the pass cuz I swear that could've been used against me ). And the Eva's soul can only interact with the pilot/entry plug. Basically the entryplug is an interface for the pilot a way of comunicating. Also while piloting an Eva no technical difference can be made between the pilot or the entry-plug. Mechanically/Technically they are the same. When someone sais eject the pilot you eject the plug, the same is true the other way around. So the plug IS the throne of the soul because it IS where the Eva's soul spends it's time and interacts with it's suroundings from.

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs
But Ritsuko and Maya both say "Soul". Maya basically says that they need to do the opposite of what happened to him. He lost physical from, and he soul was freed. They are trying to re-create his body and place his soul back in it.
[/B]
No you're wrong (Boy that felt good ). Ritsuko didn't say soul Maya did. I believe you'll even see that in your own quotes earlier. Now enough nit-picking.
First of let's look at the 'procedure'. It never worked, maybe it was never ment to work seeing how it was made by a woman (Naoko) who probably wanted the other woman (Yui) to stay gone (Yes the last bit was speculation but it makes sense). I'll admit this ones a bit weak but a better explanation follows !! This ones just a possibility. Let's look at the context from where you took your quotes. Misato wants to know what happend to Shinji afer Eva-01 absorbed the S2 engines. Misato is presuring Ritsuko to be honest on a number of areas concerning Evas, NERV and SEELE. Ritsuko has no intention of telling Misato anything, why ? We'll just say she has her reasons. Ritsuko gives Misato a pseudo-psycho explanation and Maya interprets for Misato. Gives it to het in an easy-to-swallow dose. Ritsuko sees no need to correct her(Maya). I'll get back to this one at the end.

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs
How can you say that? "The only thing you are certain of is that they have a mind". No that isn't true. I am certain that have souls as well. It clearly states "mind and soul".
[/B]
EZ, I'll do it again "The only thing you are certain of is that they have a mind". The actual instumentality takes place during or after (depends how you see it) the third impact. THAT is when minds and souls are complemented (notice me using plurals). Instrumantality itself is an worldwide event and in that way, yes the souls of the world are beeing complemented by the minds of the world. So at this point it matters little if the Eva-pilots have souls or not. Now the project instrumentality is something else. That focussed on the mind and getting it to accept itself it had little (if any) to do with any type of soul (personally I'd go with nothing to do with the soul but ok...).

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs
The soul produces the AT Field. The AT Field maintains physical form. Without the AT Field we lose physical form and our souls are "released". To return to physical form we need to "trap" out souls within our bodies again, to make us separate once more for the rest of existance.
[/B]
Though I feel I have already explained this maybe my meaning was unclear. Let me rety .... thank you.
No one is arguing with you there. The soul does produce an AT-field. And without an AT-field they do loose physical form. (Watch out here it comes !!) But what I am saying is that most of the time they can keep physical form without a soul. Because dead bodies don't have souls (right? .. Don't worry proof will follow at the end of this thread). The Rei clones also keep stable form. They DO NOT have souls. Ppl only turn into LCL when exposes to an anti-AT field (I believe it's called). THIS is what provokes the 'splashing' response. If one were inclined one could say seeing Pen2 alive al the time is proof that stable form can be maintained without a soul since the church sais it's blasphemy to assign souls to animals (I only said COULD !! :fewww: ). If what you are saying is true dummyplug-theorie/clones/deadbodies would not be possible in the NGE-universe.

Now my chalange for you and the proof all of you seek. In one of the last eps (the one with al the Rei clones in the tank). Ritsuko (NOT Fuyutski) sais that they collect all the souls from the dead bodies or rather Rei does she is a container for them. All soules are being "salvaged" as "blank souls" prolly for Evas. She also sais that the Gauff ( couldn't they just spell it easier .. ) is empty. But we all know childeren are still being born, now if the hall of souls is empty and childeren are still being born that would make them ... soulless right?

Now my chalange or rather just a question. Who believes that the Magi have a soul (yes just one ).
And a small one for Lordbryn should he choose to answer it. Kaouru was born on the day of the second impact (would make him 15), if fourteen year olds are so easy to controlle fifteen year olds should be to. Then tell me why his birthdate was impotant enough to get a special mention, other than just an odity ?

I would say I'd give you some fanservice next time but ... last time I kinda got into trouble 'cause of that. So I'll just say.
Be seein' ya !
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Old 27-10-2001, 10:29 PM   #14   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge


Hmm I recal SEELE also being called the same (althoug that was a title).
You are referring to the Japanese title for Episode 14?

Dai Juu Yon Wa Seele, Tamashii no Za (Fourteenth Episode Seele, Throne of the Soul).

I don't see your point? Rei explicitly calls the Entry plug the "Throne of the soul".

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

The entry-plug is in the core. No they are not the same thing (better cut that one off at the pass cuz I swear that could've been used against me ). And the Eva's soul can only interact with the pilot/entry plug. Basically the entryplug is an interface for the pilot a way of comunicating.
Sure I agree with all of that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

Also while piloting an Eva no technical difference can be made between the pilot or the entry-plug. Mechanically/Technically they are the same. When someone sais eject the pilot you eject the plug, the same is true the other way around. So the plug IS the throne of the soul because it IS where the Eva's soul spends it's time and interacts with it's suroundings from.
No you are wrong. I'm sorry but you make a big conceptual leap that is in fact a logical fallacy.

You can't say that because the Entry Plug interacts with the Eva's soul, it is where the Eva souls spends its time. The Eva's soul spends the majority of its time in the Core. That is where it resides. The Entry Plug houses the pilots soul. It is the throne of the soul belonging to the pilot. It then goes into the Core and interacts with the Eva's soul.

The Entry Plug is where the pilot resides. The Entry Plug is called the throne of the soul. I would think by Occam's razor it is clear that the Entry Plug is the throne of the pilots soul and thus the pilot must have a soul.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

No you're wrong (Boy that felt good ). Ritsuko didn't say soul Maya did. I believe you'll even see that in your own quotes earlier. Now enough nit-picking.
Actually I am not wrong. Ritsuko did say soul. Check the quote I posted again.

Quote:
Ritsuko: All of the materials which formed Shinji-kun are kept in the plug. What should be called his soul exits there. In fact, his ego image gives pseudosubstance to his plugsuit.

Maya: Salvaging means making his body reconstructed and his soul fixed in it.
As I said, both Ritsuko and Maya specifically say "soul".

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

First of let's look at the 'procedure'. It never worked, maybe it was never ment to work seeing how it was made by a woman (Naoko) who probably wanted the other woman (Yui) to stay gone (Yes the last bit was speculation but it makes sense). I'll admit this ones a bit weak but a better explanation follows !!
It didn't work the first time because Yui chose to stay. She chose to remain in Eva-01. Look to the end of Episode 26' for where she says this.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

This ones just a possibility. Let's look at the context from where you took your quotes. Misato wants to know what happend to Shinji afer Eva-01 absorbed the S2 engines. Misato is presuring Ritsuko to be honest on a number of areas concerning Evas, NERV and SEELE. Ritsuko has no intention of telling Misato anything, why ? We'll just say she has her reasons.
Woah. Slow down buddy. You can't just make assumptions like that and purport them as being the truth. Who says that Ritsuko had no intention of telling Misato anything? What are these "reasons" that you hint at.

Look at the context of those quotes it seems that Ritsuko has been very forthcoming

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

Ritsuko gives Misato a pseudo-psycho explanation and Maya interprets for Misato. Gives it to het in an easy-to-swallow dose. Ritsuko sees no need to correct her(Maya). I'll get back to this one at the end.
Ritsuko gives a "pseudo-explanation" does she? Well I don't agree. Here is the whole passage"

Quote:
---
THE THIRD DAY
---
Misato: How is the salvaging project for Shinji-kun?

Ritsuko: Well, what might be called Shinji-kun's life still exists.

Misato: Will life be respected this time?

Ritsuko: Losing Shinji-kun is out of the question now.

Misato: I don't know. What Nerv wants isn't his life, but Unit One as their tool.

Ritsuko: I don't deny it.

Maya: Shinji-kun's body is supposed to be drifting in the entry plug in a quantum form, because it lost its ego-border.

Misato: You mean that Shinji has become something which we can't identify visibly?

Maya: Exactly. The LCL ingredients in the plug changed chemically are now similar to the sea water of the primitive earth.

Misato: Primordial soup...

Ritsuko: All of the materials which formed Shinji-kun are still in the plug. What could be called his soul exits there, too. In fact, his ego image gives pseudosubstance to his plugsuit.

Maya: Salvaging means reconstructing his body and fixing his soul into it.

Misato: Is that possible?

Ritsuko: With Magi's support.

Misato: You're talking about the theory, aren't you? Nobody knows what will happen without trying.

---
THE FOURTH DAY
---
I think Maya and Ritsuko are being very straightforward. They give Misato (and us watching) the facts. Ritsuko is even challenged on her motives and she doesn't deny it. Both Ritsuko and Maya explicitly refer to a soul. They talk about Shinji's soul, where it is, and what they can do it with.

Shinji has a soul. I'm sorry, but he does. Both Maya and Ritsuko say that he does directly. They weren't lying. Ritsuko mentions Shinji's soul and so does Maya. Ritsuko doesn't need to correct Maya, because Maya is already correct.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

EZ, I'll do it again "The only thing you are certain of is that they have a mind". The actual instumentality takes place during or after (depends how you see it) the third impact. THAT is when minds and souls are complemented (notice me using plurals). Instrumantality itself is an worldwide event and in that way, yes the souls of the world are beeing complemented by the minds of the world. So at this point it matters little if the Eva-pilots have souls or not.
Sure it matters little, accept for the fact that what we see is directly focused on Shinji and the other children. Instrumentality involves the soul, we see Shinji going through it, thus he must have a soul. That is about as simple a logical proof as you are going to get.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

Now the project instrumentality is something else. That focussed on the mind and getting it to accept itself it had little (if any) to do with any type of soul (personally I'd go with nothing to do with the soul but ok...).
It is something else? Says who? Instrumentality and Complementation are the same things. They are just different words for the same thing. "Complementation" is the better English translation of the Japanese while "Instrumentality" is the English that ADV used (which Anno probably intended).

The both involve the mind and the soul because they are the same thing. The Children go through Complementation/Instrumentality, thus they much have souls.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

Though I feel I have already explained this maybe my meaning was unclear. Let me rety .... thank you.
No one is arguing with you there. The soul does produce an AT-field. And without an AT-field they do loose physical form. (Watch out here it comes !!) But what I am saying is that most of the time they can keep physical form without a soul. Because dead bodies don't have souls (right? .. Don't worry proof will follow at the end of this thread).
I don't see any proof. Who says that dead bodies don't have souls? Where do you think the soul goes to when someone dies in Eva? I don't know where they go, perhaps they go into purgatory for a while, which is why they don't instantly lose physical form ^_^

As I said I don't know where they go, but you are making assumptions here that you base you argument on and can't back up.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

The Rei clones also keep stable form. They DO NOT have souls.
My theory on this is that they are all floating in a big tank of LCL. That helps to keep their bodies intact. Ritsuko presses a button, I think that it alters the make-up of the LCL they are floating in and they all start falling apart. They all start falling apart. They lose physical form. They are floating in LCL. I think the connection is quite clear.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

Ppl only turn into LCL when exposes to an anti-AT field (I believe it's called).
No that is not true. Rei's arm falls off because her AT Field can no longer support her physical form. As the AT Field dissipates then the physical form slowly deteriorates. However the Anit-AT Field seems to remove the AT Field instantly, which is why you get everyone turning to LCL straight away.

Here is a question for you. Why do you think the dead bodies turn into LCL in EOE?

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

THIS is what provokes the 'splashing' response. If one were inclined one could say seeing Pen2 alive al the time is proof that stable form can be maintained without a soul since the church sais it's blasphemy to assign souls to animals (I only said COULD !! :fewww: ).
Well I think it is obvious in Eva that animals do have souls. During the Second Impact Adam deployed an Anit-AT Field. Then in Episode 21 Fuyutsuki says: "Biseibutsu ni itaru made zenseimei no tettei shita shômetsu." which translates to "A complete vanishing of all lifeforms including microorganisms". Everything is gone. There is no life left down in Antarctica. The Anti-AT Field causes the complete vanishing of all life. No animals left.

But of course then you can ask, do plants have souls? What about inanimate objects? How do they maintain their physical form? If you do ask then I think you need to step back a little and look at the question properly.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

If what you are saying is true dummyplug-theorie/clones/deadbodies would not be possible in the NGE-universe.
I think I have explained why they are possible.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

Now my chalange for you and the proof all of you seek. In one of the last eps (the one with al the Rei clones in the tank). Ritsuko (NOT Fuyutski) sais that they collect all the souls from the dead bodies or rather Rei does she is a container for them.
It is Episode 23 and you have got the quote wrong. Ritsuko doesn't say that they collect all the souls. She says that all the Eva's, which have no soul initially, have souls which have been collected/salvaged. (ie. Eva-01 has Yui's soul, Eva-02 has Kyouko's).

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

All soules are being "salvaged" as "blank souls" prolly for Evas.
No, as I said above, you have misinterpreted what Ritsuko says. All the souls are not being salvaged. Just all the Eva's contain salvaged souls.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

She also sais that the Gauff ( couldn't they just spell it easier .. ) is empty. But we all know childeren are still being born, now if the hall of souls is empty and childeren are still being born that would make them ... soulless right?
So now we come down to it. The basis of your whole theory. One line.

"The Chamber of Guf" in my opinion is Lilith and Lilith's Egg, the Black Moon.

Ritusko says that Rei is the only vessel that has a soul, none of the other vessels have souls because there was nothing left in The Chamber of Gaf. Now whose soul does Rei have? Liliths. Rei has Lilith's soul. Rei "got" Liliths soul, but there were no others for the other vessels/clones.

In EoE

Quote:
(Lilith-Rei spreads her wings)

Fuyutsuki:
The Chamber of Gaf (Hall of Souls) has been unsealed...
Has the door to the world's beginning and end finally opened?

(Souls begin to gather around the Black Moon)

(Countless Reis begin to turn people into LCL)
The souls all return to the Black Moon, to Lilith. Rei got her soul from Lilith.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

Now my chalange or rather just a question. Who believes that the Magi have a soul (yes just one ).
I don't. They are computers. They have a personality OS. They are Machines and Ritsuko directly says that it is impossible to digitise a soul, it put it into a machine.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nagha's revenge

And a small one for Lordbryn should he choose to answer it. Kaouru was born on the day of the second impact (would make him 15), if fourteen year olds are so easy to controlle fifteen year olds should be to. Then tell me why his birthdate was impotant enough to get a special mention, other than just an odity ?
And Rei can't have been born till 2004 (when Yui died). Making her only around 10 when the series starts. Rei and Kaoru are special cases. SEELE sent Kaoru to NERV. Kaoru didn't pilot Eva-02 like normal (they were amazed that they didn't have to change Eva-02's core, that Kaoru could still "pilot" it with Asuka's core still in it). Karou "took control" of Eva-02, he didn't synch with it, he didn't pilot it traditionally.
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Last edited by MDWigs; 27-10-2001 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 29-10-2001, 04:00 PM   #15   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs


You are referring to the Japanese title for Episode 14?

Dai Juu Yon Wa Seele, Tamashii no Za (Fourteenth Episode Seele, Throne of the Soul).

I don't see your point? Rei explicitly calls the Entry plug the "Throne of the soul".
Big suprise !! ... I had none just an out of the blue observation .


Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

Sure I agree with all of that.
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

No you are wrong. I'm sorry but you make a big conceptual leap that is in fact a logical fallacy.

You can't say that because the Entry Plug interacts with the Eva's soul, it is where the Eva souls spends its time. The Eva's soul spends the majority of its time in the Core. That is where it resides. The Entry Plug houses the pilots soul. It is the throne of the soul belonging to the pilot. It then goes into the Core and interacts with the Eva's soul.

The Entry Plug is where the pilot resides. The Entry Plug is called the throne of the soul. I would think by Occam's razor it is clear that the Entry Plug is the throne of the pilots soul and thus the pilot must have a soul.
I believe the answer can be found in defining the term "Throne of the soul". So, NGE asside, what is the throne of the soul(TotS)? Now a short search didn't really reveal that much, accept that TotS. Apparantly it's the place a little voice sits that tells you what to do and how to act. I have found references to this in mainly christian and some egyptian definitions. I will however tinker at this a bit longer. But what is clear up to this point is that TotS has nothing to do with the soul in either religions. So linking it back to NGE TotS seats the pilot. The pilot tells the Eva what to do. On the other hand in the cases of Eva 01 (and even Eva 00) the Eva sometimes takes controlle thus it is taking it's seat in the throne of his soul. I admit I was wrong though this expression does not proove your point either.

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

Actually I am not wrong. Ritsuko did say soul. Check the quote I posted again.

As I said, both Ritsuko and Maya specifically say "soul".
I'll be damned that'll teach me to mouth off ..

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

It didn't work the first time because Yui chose to stay. She chose to remain in Eva-01. Look to the end of Episode 26' for where she says this.
I agree yet another thing that makes me wonder about Yui and her intensions ...

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

Woah. Slow down buddy. You can't just make assumptions like that and purport them as being the truth. Who says that Ritsuko had no intention of telling Misato anything? What are these "reasons" that you hint at.

Look at the context of those quotes it seems that Ritsuko has been very forthcoming

Ritsuko gives a "pseudo-explanation" does she? Well I don't agree. Here is the whole passage"

I think Maya and Ritsuko are being very straightforward. They give Misato (and us watching) the facts. Ritsuko is even challenged on her motives and she doesn't deny it. Both Ritsuko and Maya explicitly refer to a soul. They talk about Shinji's soul, where it is, and what they can do it with.

Shinji has a soul. I'm sorry, but he does. Both Maya and Ritsuko say that he does directly. They weren't lying. Ritsuko mentions Shinji's soul and so does Maya. Ritsuko doesn't need to correct Maya, because Maya is already correct.
Now look at it from this pov. Ritsuko doesn't want to disclose anything about NERV/SEELE/EVAS in general. But she does want to help Misato. So she tells her only what concerns her. If you think that the childeren have no souls, but everyone else has. She has a choice either disclose new information or tell Misato one lie that will not matter either way. Cuz basically one truth will lead to another and to another. And at this point in time Ritsuko just doesn't want to disclose anything beit because of duity, Ghendo or wanting to protect Misato. If there are no souls in the gauff as she states later on how can Shinji have a soul?

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

Sure it matters little, accept for the fact that what we see is directly focused on Shinji and the other children. Instrumentality involves the soul, we see Shinji going through it, thus he must have a soul. That is about as simple a logical proof as you are going to get.

It is something else? Says who? Instrumentality and Complementation are the same things. They are just different words for the same thing. "Complementation" is the better English translation of the Japanese while "Instrumentality" is the English that ADV used (which Anno probably intended).

The both involve the mind and the soul because they are the same thing. The Children go through Complementation/Instrumentality, thus they much have souls.
The project is what takes place in eps 25 & 26. This is conducted by NERV/SEELE as a preperation. Trying to guide the minds the right way. Sinds that is the only thing they do, they let your mind understand and accept it's faults.

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

I don't see any proof. Who says that dead bodies don't have souls? Where do you think the soul goes to when someone dies in Eva? I don't know where they go, perhaps they go into purgatory for a while, which is why they don't instantly lose physical form ^_^

As I said I don't know where they go, but you are making assumptions here that you base you argument on and can't back up.
You said it yourself, though i don't think you saw it. "perhaps they go into purgatory for a while". Key word being "go" (btw I believe purgatory is the same as hell, so the souls could also be going to heaven but the would still be gone). When you die your soul leaves your body. Where they go I do not know, but I do know where they are not. That would be in the body they are in. Because (salvages) souls are born in Rei. This would mean that the soul at least leaves the body. You could also say all souls return to Lillith and stay dormid there. This also might explane why only Rei can contain spare souls. One can also say that when a soul leaves the body the AT-field doesn't collapse as with exposure to an anti-AT field but fades. Kind of like my scent analogy in another thread, your scent will stay a while after death. Then you start to decompose.

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

My theory on this is that they are all floating in a big tank of LCL. That helps to keep their bodies intact. Ritsuko presses a button, I think that it alters the make-up of the LCL they are floating in and they all start falling apart. They all start falling apart. They lose physical form. They are floating in LCL. I think the connection is quite clear.
Ah the connection is clear but in EOE Ritsuko was also lying in a pool of LCL, yet she also turned into LCL. Nothing remained not even the parts submerged in LCL. The fact that her AT-field did or did not collapse should not matter as does her being alove or not. The Rei clones also do not have AT-fields.
It's more likely that the Reis have a 'kill switch' build in returning theire parts to LCL.


Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

No that is not true. Rei's arm falls off because her AT Field can no longer support her physical form. As the AT Field dissipates then the physical form slowly deteriorates. However the Anit-AT Field seems to remove the AT Field instantly, which is why you get everyone turning to LCL straight away.

Here is a question for you. Why do you think the dead bodies turn into LCL in EOE?
Isn't that what I've been saying ?
Quote ME: "What happen when everyone turned into LCL was that theire AT-fields collapsed/were destroyed. Now who sais that when you die your AT-field is detroyed ? It disapears/fades but it isn't destroyed, this is why everything doesn't turn into LCL WITHOUT a soul. this is also a way clones can be made since they have no soul to begin with. Like I stated earlier in another thread the turning into LCL is a reaction to Lillith's AT-field nothing else. "

Because bodies are made up of LCL. Apparantly this is the only substance that can 'hold' a soul. I'd say it's a soul only in EoE souls are depicted differenly.

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

Well I think it is obvious in Eva that animals do have souls. During the Second Impact Adam deployed an Anit-AT Field. Then in Episode 21 Fuyutsuki says: "Biseibutsu ni itaru made zenseimei no tettei shita shômetsu." which translates to "A complete vanishing of all lifeforms including microorganisms". Everything is gone. There is no life left down in Antarctica. The Anti-AT Field causes the complete vanishing of all life. No animals left.

But of course then you can ask, do plants have souls? What about inanimate objects? How do they maintain their physical form? If you do ask then I think you need to step back a little and look at the question properly.
I tend to think the same thing, but since you are answering my unanswered questions allow me to answer yours . Plants (event micro-organisms and animals if think about it) could've been killed by Adams shockwave and inanimate object do survive. Since you can see remenents of stoplights and signs on 'earth' after the third impact . I also believe Antartica also had a small Adams shockwave.

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

It is Episode 23 and you have got the quote wrong. Ritsuko doesn't say that they collect all the souls. She says that all the Eva's, which have no soul initially, have souls which have been collected/salvaged. (ie. Eva-01 has Yui's soul, Eva-02 has Kyouko's).
You are somewhat right but my point is made the room of the Gauff is empty and the remaining souls (salvedged or not) are being reborn in Rei (Cuz those souls are the only ones left if not then they stay in the bodies but they do not return to the Gauff, of course they also could've returned to Lillith .. hmm ..).

Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

So now we come down to it. The basis of your whole theory. One line.

"The Chamber of Guf" in my opinion is Lilith and Lilith's Egg, the Black Moon.

Ritusko says that Rei is the only vessel that has a soul, none of the other vessels have souls because there was nothing left in The Chamber of Gaf. Now whose soul does Rei have? Liliths. Rei has Lilith's soul. Rei "got" Liliths soul, but there were no others for the other vessels/clones.

In EoE

The souls all return to the Black Moon, to Lilith. Rei got her soul from Lilith.
Now if this doesn't proove my point. You say : "Ritusko says that Rei is the only vessel that has a soul, none of the other vessels have souls because there was nothing left in The Chamber of Gaf." So all souls that enter the Gauff are reborn in Rei, right? Since only the 'Eva-souls' are reborn in Rei they must first return to the Gauff, right? But if all souls that die return to the gauff they must all be reborn in Rei (maybe they can't use all the souls they get). You also say: "Rei has Lilith's soul. Rei "got" Liliths soul, but there were no others for the other vessels/clones." I think Rei never had another soul except Lillith's so that could mean that the room of the Gauff always was empty, and has been for a long time. You could also say NERVE was looking for a parents soul for each Eva cause they already had the kids. So they weren't really looking for the kids they were just sifting through the souls to find the right one.


Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

I don't. They are computers. They have a personality OS. They are Machines and Ritsuko directly says that it is impossible to digitise a soul, it put it into a machine.
Exactly. So this at least proves NERVE/SEELE had some experience in personalitie transfers and if this was originally planned for the Evas (Mistato-Ritsuko dialog in Casper). They already knew how to do it. The Magi were there before the Evas. So all these 'accident' that happend while transfering the souls to the Evas maybe are no acidents at all. That's why Yui invited Shinji over to witness her 'transition' "...the bright future...". I just don't understand why everyone keeps thinking of Yui as a victime she actually could be a key player in manipulating SEELE, NERVE and Shinji. This little fact also proves to an extent that all the Eva accidents partaking the 'whose soule' questions aren't accidents at all. It might even suggest that Yui is in major controlle in EoE ( Hmm I'm beginning to rant but I think this does deserve some thought). Anyway making a little sidettrack to your soul-imprint theorie if a soul is inprinted does it copy the soul? I believe that I read somewhere that that was NOT the case. If so how can an imprint of a soul have an AT-field ? It's the same if when you say my fingerprint has the same bodyheat as I do. And I do believe an Eva does have an AT-field of itsown right ?


Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs

And Rei can't have been born till 2004 (when Yui died). Making her only around 10 when the series starts. Rei and Kaoru are special cases. SEELE sent Kaoru to NERV. Kaoru didn't pilot Eva-02 like normal (they were amazed that they didn't have to change Eva-02's core, that Kaoru could still "pilot" it with Asuka's core still in it). Karou "took control" of Eva-02, he didn't synch with it, he didn't pilot it traditionally.

You are actually making my point. And overstating it . But as you can see the question wasn't ment for you (although Lordbryn is prolly to affraid to face me again ). It just proves that SEELE screwed up and the age does matter.
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