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Old 26-01-2004, 03:23 PM   #1   [permalink]
Takeshi-chan
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first art post since '01... 4 pieces!

okay, well ive been meaning to post some of my new stuff since 2001 when i last posted in this forum... but im a lazy dipshit. lol... but now i have a good bunch of stuff scanned and everything... but most of it isnt exactly anime... but thats okay... i dont know who remembers the other art i posted here a while back, but my style has changed a bit since then... i also re-read through my old posts from then and realized what an arrogant kid i was then... so uh yeah *cough*(please dont comment on that hahahaha ^^;;;;;;; so here's some i'd like to start with...

of course im open to any C&C

1. Chii on the bed... classic Chii in the oversized tee... hehe i lurve this, shes so cute!! this is in the process of getting colored...
2. An elven i girl i created playing with a small faerie. when i get around to CGing this one, the rippled fabric will be sheer... i have such visions for this one, and a whole involved background...*eyes glaze over*
3. Just a dress i designed. its a stiff material on the outside, kind of like a huge corset type thing, but lots of soft petticoats underneath. its kind of contrasting, and i like that.
4. a CG i did of an angel girl i drew. it was used as part of the back ground of my livejournal layout. i had a matching one of her back turned, walking away. but i couldnt get one of the legs right, so i never finished it. i really should, thats such a shame.

enjoy! expect more from me when i manage to either a) resize the rest of my scans under 75kb so they dont look like postal stamps... b) find a good free image host... c) get my website to allow direct links... mhmm lol
Attached Images:
File Type: jpg chiibedAB.jpg (66.0 KB, 98 views)
File Type: jpg ElffaerieAB.jpg (69.7 KB, 123 views)
File Type: jpg stifffluff.jpg (47.7 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg angelruncolor.jpg (74.3 KB, 90 views)

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Old 26-01-2004, 03:53 PM   #2   [permalink]
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Ohh, the Chi you drew is so cute!!!
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Old 27-01-2004, 02:24 AM   #3   [permalink]
SamIam
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Originally Posted by Takeshi-chan
okay, well ive been meaning to post some of my new stuff since 2001 when i last posted in this forum... but im a lazy dipshit. lol... but now i have a good bunch of stuff scanned and everything... but most of it isnt exactly anime... but thats okay... i dont know who remembers the other art i posted here a while back, but my style has changed a bit since then... i also re-read through my old posts from then and realized what an arrogant kid i was then... so uh yeah *cough*(please dont comment on that hahahaha ^^;;;;;;; so here's some i'd like to start with...

of course im open to any C&C

1. Chii on the bed... classic Chii in the oversized tee... hehe i lurve this, shes so cute!! this is in the process of getting colored...
2. An elven i girl i created playing with a small faerie. when i get around to CGing this one, the rippled fabric will be sheer... i have such visions for this one, and a whole involved background...*eyes glaze over*
3. Just a dress i designed. its a stiff material on the outside, kind of like a huge corset type thing, but lots of soft petticoats underneath. its kind of contrasting, and i like that.
4. a CG i did of an angel girl i drew. it was used as part of the back ground of my livejournal layout. i had a matching one of her back turned, walking away. but i couldnt get one of the legs right, so i never finished it. i really should, thats such a shame.

enjoy! expect more from me when i manage to either a) resize the rest of my scans under 75kb so they dont look like postal stamps... b) find a good free image host... c) get my website to allow direct links... mhmm lol
Overall, I really like your style ... and am impressed with your attention to detail and sense of composition ...

Things to look out for ...

For your #2 pic of the Elven Girl and Faerie:

Your grasp of proportion and anatomy is reasonably accurate (especially considering there are really no rules for Elvish folk!) ... so take this with a grain of salt ... if you are basing anatomical proportion and ratio sizing to that of a human girl ... then it appears that the head might be a tad big ...

Facial features seem to suggest a weak chin and protruding teeth and there is an impression that the eyes are really wide apart or very deeply set (recessed into the skull) ... if this is a girl of the apprarant age of say 16 ... you might want to adjust the facial geometry by bringing the facial features a bit lower and moving the eyes closer together, pull back the lips a bit and shorten the nose ... this will also have the net effect of increasing her apparent cranial or brain capacity ... by increasing the forehead area subtly.

... also the elven girls left arm (the one reaching for the faerie is a touch to high and to far in towards the chest midline ... this give the impression that she "skrunching" her shoulders together for some reason ...

... the right foot (given the angle of the girl) should be less prominant and somewhat hidden by her left foot/leg... as it stands now, it looks as if her right leg is a bit longer.

Did some rough aproximations to underscore the change in facial geometry

SamIam
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Old 27-01-2004, 03:01 PM   #4   [permalink]
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...

Anyways. Your attention to detail boggles the hell out of me. It really does. I mean, each little fabric roll or touch LOOKS natural but when you look at them closely you realize how much time actually went into every minute little detail.

I think they all look great! Nice job on all the feet by the way. I'm totally jealous of your ability to draw toes...I'm also still jealous that you had a donut yesterday.

NOTE: It is extremely bad form to try and redraw someone's art unless they specifically ask for it. /note
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Last edited by Millions; 27-01-2004 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 27-01-2004, 06:13 PM   #5   [permalink]
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Nice drawings chibi... this must be something to do iwth the amateur artist comitte but re-drawing versions of other peoples drawings can be seen as a complement that people were so intreste din it. Hell if anyone took an idea of mine for a movie and made one with just a few chnages i'd be honoured *unless i was a professional with copyrights, etc,etc.
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Old 27-01-2004, 06:27 PM   #6   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by SamIam
Overall, I really like your style ... and am impressed with your attention to detail and sense of composition ...

Things to look out for ...

For your #2 pic of the Elven Girl and Faerie:

Your grasp of proportion and anatomy is reasonably accurate (especially considering there are really no rules for Elvish folk!) ... so take this with a grain of salt ... if you are basing anatomical proportion and ratio sizing to that of a human girl ... then it appears that the head might be a tad big ...

Facial features seem to suggest a weak chin and protruding teeth and there is an impression that the eyes are really wide apart or very deeply set (recessed into the skull) ... if this is a girl of the apprarant age of say 16 ... you might want to adjust the facial geometry by bringing the facial features a bit lower and moving the eyes closer together, pull back the lips a bit and shorten the nose ... this will also have the net effect of increasing her apparent cranial or brain capacity ... by increasing the forehead area subtly.

... also the elven girls left arm (the one reaching for the faerie is a touch to high and to far in towards the chest midline ... this give the impression that she "skrunching" her shoulders together for some reason ...

... the right foot (given the angle of the girl) should be less prominant and somewhat hidden by her left foot/leg... as it stands now, it looks as if her right leg is a bit longer.

Did some rough aproximations to underscore the change in facial geometry

SamIam

okay, at first i wasnt going to think much about this post, i didnt think it was really worth responding to, because there wasnt really anything wrong with what you <i>said</i>... i just thought maybe you were trying to be cute/helpful by pointing all those details (i dont know you or your critiquing habits well) part of me wants to appreciate your abundant C&C, but part of me is just so caught off guard by everything you said and *especially* by what you did.

1. she is drawn in my personal style. her face is not meant to be a profile, it is slightly turned to her left. therefore, her eye isnt so close to her nose or faced like a profile. same with the mouth.
2. she has no designated age, but her body is older than 16, so her faec was too. i wanted her to have very sharp, clean cut features. thus, i drew them.
3. the arm is meant to look hesitant, but curious. she wants to touch or hold the faerie, not just pet it with all fingers out. its also not bend straight in front, its bent slightly to the center of her, leaning to the right. thus the bend crease.
4. her feet are slightly apart. the right foot is further back, and slightly tilted towards the other. thus the distance.

but then i saw the attachment on the bottom. i opened it, and i cant beleive you re-drew what i did... its not even C&C anymore... you just completely changed the drawing, and its not even mine anymore. that is one of my most favorite, peices of artwork dear to me, and you didnt just fix it, you changed it. the whole emotion and feeling of it isnt the same anymore... its just completely different...i do not expect you to know how important it is to me, nor does that mean someone should C&C on it any lighter, but i feel its not mine anymore. i cant see my drawing anymore without seeing yours in front of it. maybe im exagerating, maybe im making too much of a big deal, but im very deeply affected by this. like i said, i dont know you. i dont know if you do this to people you dont like or if you really think what you said is C&C, but i dunno. i know my art isnt perfect, and there are things i did mess up that i see in it, and others have pointed out in the past that i havent been able to see by myself and i took very much into consideration, and really have helped me.

i know i might get bashed for saying some of what i just said, but i dont care. "just learn to take criticism in the art world" this, to me, is not just criticism. i can take criticism very, very well. i'm going to be going to a very competitive art college, i can definitely take criticism. i had to think about this post im making right now a lot before posting... someone made it known to me that after posting this, i may not get any comments at all again. i hope thats not true, i do want comments, but i feel like i have to say this. i say this all very calmly and reasonably, no defensiveness or sarcasm at all. im just stating facts and feelings

if any of what i said was wrong... by all means, do please correct me.
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Old 27-01-2004, 07:36 PM   #7   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Takeshi-chan
okay, at first i wasnt going to think much about this post, i didnt think it was really worth responding to, because there wasnt really anything wrong with what you <i>said</i>... i just thought maybe you were trying to be cute/helpful by pointing all those details (i dont know you or your critiquing habits well) part of me wants to appreciate your abundant C&C, but part of me is just so caught off guard by everything you said and *especially* by what you did.

1. she is drawn in my personal style. her face is not meant to be a profile, it is slightly turned to her left. therefore, her eye isnt so close to her nose or faced like a profile. same with the mouth.


2. she has no designated age, but her body is older than 16, so her faec was too. i wanted her to have very sharp, clean cut features. thus, i drew them.

3. the arm is meant to look hesitant, but curious. she wants to touch or hold the faerie, not just pet it with all fingers out. its also not bend straight in front, its bent slightly to the center of her, leaning to the right. thus the bend crease.
4. her feet are slightly apart. the right foot is further back, and slightly tilted towards the other. thus the distance.

but then i saw the attachment on the bottom. i opened it, and i cant beleive you re-drew what i did... its not even C&C anymore... you just completely changed the drawing, and its not even mine anymore. that is one of my most favorite, peices of artwork dear to me, and you didnt just fix it, you changed it. the whole emotion and feeling of it isnt the same anymore... its just completely different...i do not expect you to know how important it is to me, nor does that mean someone should C&C on it any lighter, but i feel its not mine anymore. i cant see my drawing anymore without seeing yours in front of it. maybe im exagerating, maybe im making too much of a big deal, but im very deeply affected by this. like i said, i dont know you. i dont know if you do this to people you dont like or if you really think what you said is C&C, but i dunno. i know my art isnt perfect, and there are things i did mess up that i see in it, and others have pointed out in the past that i havent been able to see by myself and i took very much into consideration, and really have helped me.

i know i might get bashed for saying some of what i just said, but i dont care. "just learn to take criticism in the art world" this, to me, is not just criticism. i can take criticism very, very well. i'm going to be going to a very competitive art college, i can definitely take criticism. i had to think about this post im making right now a lot before posting... someone made it known to me that after posting this, i may not get any comments at all again. i hope thats not true, i do want comments, but i feel like i have to say this. i say this all very calmly and reasonably, no defensiveness or sarcasm at all. im just stating facts and feelings

if any of what i said was wrong... by all means, do please correct me.
I apologize if you took offense at my style of critiquing your work ...

Yet, you did ask for this from the viewers and I gave you the type of appraisal or critique that I would have with any of the art students I have had in the past ... I taught highschool art for a good number of years and part of the process was to convey to students information in the most efficient means possible any notable observations as they came up ... and especially if they requested evaluation. (I usually did this with a transparent overlay to their work) ... but in the age of digital, a low res file follows the same metaphor.

Add to this, the caveat of creating a point of reference with human anatomy as a baseline (to be taken with a grain of salt) ... all of which were admittingly added and stated for lack of information.

Given the fact that this critique was on a visual work, concrete examples of "flagged" elements make for much less typed verbage and for a clearer example of what is being pointed out.

The point of contention and or confusion is that the head angle/perspective IS confusing, ...IF the facial geometry is based on the rules and ratios developed for human appearance (as I have stated) then there appears to be contradictory elements which impy both a 3/4 view AND profile ...

My suggestion to you is that you study anatomical methodology a bit more ... for I strongly suspect that (as far as anatomy goes) you would elicit similar responses from other art instructors. In fact, if you feel strongly about my commentary, then please submit your work for review at your local art college with my commentary for a comparative reference and get a wider perspective on your work, or just the artwork for additional commentary.

SamIam
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Old 27-01-2004, 08:04 PM   #8   [permalink]
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Oh man, you're kidding me.

The drawing is clearly done on a rotated axis...the 3/4s view. You went in and chopped the pic to make it look like a profile shot...it's clearly NOT a profile pose.

It's not your wordy criticism that SUCKS...it's that you changed another person's art. The fact that you taught highschool art does not merit you the right to completely alter someone's drawing just because YOU think you're right. Art is a form of personal expression...not someone elses expression.

Honestly, from where I sit...the original is much more proportionally accurate as well as properly balanced.

I'm not surprised that this type of critical criticism on a FAN ART board has chased off some rather talented artists, say what you will.
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Old 27-01-2004, 08:18 PM   #9   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by SamIam
I apologize if you took offense at my style of critiquing your work ...

Yet, you did ask for this from the viewers and I gave you the type of appraisal or critique that I would have with any of the art students I have had in the past ... I taught highschool art for a good number of years and part of the process was to convey to students information in the most efficient means possible any notable observations as they came up ... and especially if they requested evaluation. (I usually did this with a transparent overlay to their work) ... but in the age of digital, a low res file follows the same metaphor.

Add to this, the caveat of creating a point of reference with human anatomy as a baseline (to be taken with a grain of salt) ... all of which were admittingly added and stated for lack of information.

Given the fact that this critique was on a visual work, concrete examples of "flagged" elements make for much less typed verbage and for a clearer example of what is being pointed out.

The point of contention and or confusion is that the head angle/perspective IS confusing, ...IF the facial geometry is based on the rules and ratios developed for human appearance (as I have stated) then there appears to be contradictory elements which impy both a 3/4 view AND profile ...

My suggestion to you is that you study anatomical methodology a bit more ... for I strongly suspect that (as far as anatomy goes) you would elicit similar responses from other art instructors. In fact, if you feel strongly about my commentary, then please submit your work for review at your local art college with my commentary for a comparative reference and get a wider perspective on your work, or just the artwork for additional commentary.

SamIam

i am very aware that i asked for this, but i have just never ever heard of your type of critiquing. i take several high school art classes with very experienced teachers and i take a course at Pratt college, and i have never heard of a teacher who redraws (overlay or computer edit) their students works. i very much respect verbal opinion or on a new paper just sketching what the teacher thinks, but it just blew me away that a teacher would do that. in terms or the actual human ratios, i try to keep general ideas of keeping proportion in mind, but i feel if you stick too close to the exact ratios and calculations its not stylized anymore. this is just an opinion of mine. i do, however try to keep real proportions in mind when doing actual portraits and realism. i will admit that the size and shape of her cranial cavity was not a key factor i was concerned with whilst drawing this elven girl. and, i look at my drawing over and over and examine her face, and i do not see how it could look like a profile. you can see her other eyebrow and brow bone and eyelashes around the side of her nose, and the indent of her lips is clearly facing 3/4 as well. her jaw bone's angle with the neck and the rest of her body shows that she wouldn't be turning in the direction.

in conclusion, if i post one of my realism peices or portraits... by all means critique my ratios and proportions, you are one of the only people i know who seems to know them so perfectly off the back of your hand, and that i could respect and appreciate... but i stick to my opinion and do not agree with altering an individual's creativity, visions, and emotion in a work of art. that is not C&C or a very good quality in a teacher that i would want to work under.
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Old 27-01-2004, 08:36 PM   #10   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Millions
Oh man, you're kidding me.

The drawing is clearly done on a rotated axis...the 3/4s view. You went in and chopped the pic to make it look like a profile shot...it's clearly NOT a profile pose.

<Please read more carefully ... notice I detailed the head, yes the body is 3/4 view by intent, but the facial plane contains elements of both 3/4 view and profile (as I have stated)

It's not your wordy criticism that SUCKS...it's that you changed another person's art. The fact that you taught highschool art does not merit you the right to completely alter someone's drawing just because YOU think you're right. Art is a form of personal expression...not someone elses expression.

<When the person asks for a critique, they ask for EXTERNAL SUBJECTIVE views ... and as I have also stated, don't rely on just my view (or for that matter yours) ... if truth is desired, then ask those with whom you trust (as in the art college mentioned ... AFTER ALL THE TRUTH IS THE GOAL IS IT NOT? >

Honestly, from where I sit...the original is much more proportionally accurate as well as properly balanced.

I'm not surprised that this type of critical criticism on a FAN ART board has chased off some rather talented artists, say what you will.
< I have, and so have you, now it is up to others to determine the merits of both views ... keep in mind that I qualified most if not all of my observations to be as fair as possible and recommended additional review ... I want truth to come out, I also want this artist to improve and expand their craft ... so I say, bring it on... If I am disliked for it, for the moment, then so be it ... I have had many students, thank me AFTER THE FACT for critical instuction ... >
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Old 27-01-2004, 08:47 PM   #11   [permalink]
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A real artist would appreciate a peer's work, not change the picture completely. I love the original piece. Actually, I love all four of them. The edited piece is... not good. The head is far too small, the shading is unnecessary for the style, and the eye is just plain bad.

And by the way, high school art teachers do not have to be artists. And high school art is bullshit. You know what I learned all four years of MY high school art class? How to grid.

Go draw your own elf.
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Old 27-01-2004, 08:56 PM   #12   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Elhaym
A real artist would appreciate a peer's work, not change the picture completely. I love the original piece. Actually, I love all four of them. The edited piece is... not good. The head is far too small, the shading is unnecessary for the style, and the eye is just plain bad.

And by the way, high school art teachers do not have to be artists. And high school art is bullshit. You know what I learned all four years of MY high school art class? How to grid.

Go draw your own elf.

thank you so much, im glad you like them. i also agree what you said about high school art classes... my teacher may be an experienced artist, but now shes just a picky materialistic fifty-something going on thirty woman... lol... but she still doesnt change anyones original ideas.
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Old 27-01-2004, 09:11 PM   #13   [permalink]
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Tell you what, get into that Art College you mentioned, and if you want, we can continue this chat. I would be interested to see if your perspective changes while in college and then into the professional world of art.

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Old 27-01-2004, 09:15 PM   #14   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by SamIam


Tell you what, get into that Art College you mentioned, and if you want, we can continue this chat. I would be interested to see if your perspective changes while in college and then into the professional world of art.

SamIam
That's some real inspiration and support comming from an art teacher.
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Old 27-01-2004, 09:20 PM   #15   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Elhaym


And by the way, high school art teachers do not have to be artists.

... and you base this assumption on what ... exactly?

SamIam
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