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Old 22-02-2002, 06:28 AM   #1   [permalink]
Dlaiyre
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Post Unit 00 & 01 Souls.

Possible Series Spoilers

It seems perfectly clear that Eva Unit 01 is protecting Shinji, Which makes perfect sense that it is Yui is Unit 01's soul, and later on it is clearly Yui presented. (The compatibility tests?)
This also explains Unit 01's Tendancy to go "beserk" when there is great danger for the pilot, Shinji. This also shows when Shinji leaves (Ep 18 or 19?) and Unit 01 won't synch with Rei, or the dummy plug, refusing. Which allows shinji the chance to return to NERV and Pilot Unit 01, remaining close to Yui as i would imagine she would want...

Personnally i didn't have any thoughts on Unit 00 cause i didn't know what to think, however i have noticed the theory that Unit 00 contains the soul of Rei I, but i still don't see how Unit 00 can have Rei's soul and yet Rei II has a soul, and Rei III has the same soul as Rei II, is Rei II a different being than Rei I? This seems to make sense, that upon Rei I's death the soul was used in the "soul-less" prototype and later on a "New" Rei was made, being Rei II, a totally seperate being to Rei I, which would also explain Rei II's inability to synch with Unit 00 instantly as Shinji was able to with Unit 01, Rei II had no Previous relation to Rei I, and Shinji not only had a relation with the soul of Unit 01, but he was the son Yui. -This theory was not mine, I just put this together, trying to make sense of it myself.

Well, tell me what you think...
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Old 23-02-2002, 01:27 AM   #2   [permalink]
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Possibly when "imprinting" a soul into the EVA the original soul is not stolen/destroyed but simply copied? I'm not quite sure Rei002 has the same soul as Rei001 did, actually, I tend o doubt it personally. While Rei002 and Rei003 shared memories, yes, I'm not sure they shared the same soul. Would a clone even have a soul?
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Old 23-02-2002, 07:22 AM   #3   [permalink]
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clones have a soul, what is a clone but bio matter, we are all bio matter surely all bio matter individuals have souls. btw isnt rei connected to yui?
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Old 23-02-2002, 07:49 AM   #4   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by c0mebackplease
Would a clone even have a soul?
Ritsuko does say that rei grew her own soul, so in teh case here she does have a soul. I believe unit 00 to be soulless and that it is the imprinting of Rei's mind and her angel status which allow it its animation

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Old 23-02-2002, 11:27 AM   #5   [permalink]
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Quote:
I believe unit 00 to be soulless and that it is the imprinting of Rei's mind and her angel status which allow it its animation
Interesting Ath... could you elaborate a little more on the angel status part?
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Old 23-02-2002, 11:35 AM   #6   [permalink]
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Rei contains Lilith's soul (there may be a few who disagree)

Also, as Karou said to her- you are just like me.

Karou was an angel (with Adams soul- no disputes)

Rei was probably created with a mixture between Yui and Lilith's dna.

However it does leave a few paradox's regarding Angel status.

The AT field of Lilith is actually human (EoE)


Now we know that Karou could only control unit 02 after Asuka's mother was no longer dominant within it. If there was a dominant soul in unit 00 then rei would have problems (as it seems you need to be related to the soul)

This would also be the case if Rei was an angel (for the same reasons karou gives)

However if unit 00 has no soul, then only one with an angel status would be able to get it to work.

Rei 2 did not know all about what she was, and it was only rei 2 that operated unit00. It can be speculated that rei 3 could ahve operated unit00 to the same degree as karou did with unit 02, knowing they were created from the same material.

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Old 23-02-2002, 08:00 PM   #7   [permalink]
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Two problems come initially to mind when I think about this theory.

First, if Rei "controls" Eva-00 by using her "Angel abilities" becuase it has no soul, then how can she "control" Eva-01, which we know has a resident soul (Yui) who is far from not being dominant.

Second is the flip side. If Eva-00 has no soul, how does Shinji's synch with it? He has no "Angel abilities", yet during his test with it he is "contacted" by something coming from the Eva itself.
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Old 23-02-2002, 08:52 PM   #8   [permalink]
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Quote:
Ritsuko does say that rei grew her own soul, so in teh case here she does have a soul.
I don't think she does. Which line are you refering to here?

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clones have a soul, what is a clone but bio matter, we are all bio matter surely all bio matter individuals have souls. btw isnt rei connected to yui?
Actualy, no.

Under Christianity, the Soul is what seperates people from animals. It's a moral and spiritual center. Animals, Insects, Trees, and Bacteria don't have Souls and don't ascend to Heaven on death.

The Souls are given by God at the time of conception. This was a topic of debate within the Church about a decade ago when the possibility of human cloning became a realilty. But most sects, particularly Roman Catholic, concluded a cloned human would not have a Soul. The debate continues today, but the definition of cloning has changed from the Evangelion/Jurassic-Park theory of copying life from a random piece of existing DNA to the current working model of splitting Embryos at conception and forcing the creation of essentially identical twins. So in modern times the opinions of many Churchs have been more lenient.

The Evangelions don't have Souls initially, though they are living creatures. Neither do the Spare Rei's in the LCL tank. And Ritsuki mentions the Room of Gauf, where Souls wait to enter newborn bodies, is emtpy.
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Old 23-02-2002, 09:01 PM   #9   [permalink]
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if you agree that the clones of Rei do not have souls, then that makes the Evangelion Soul theory irrelevant completely... they are clones of Lillith/Adam.
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Old 23-02-2002, 09:22 PM   #10   [permalink]
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if you agree that the clones of Rei do not have souls, then that makes the Evangelion Soul theory irrelevant completely... they are clones of Lillith/Adam.
Pretty much, yeah. The only souls they have are the two they've taken from Yui and Kyoto.
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Old 24-02-2002, 01:15 AM   #11   [permalink]
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if you agree that the clones of Rei do not have souls, then that makes the Evangelion Soul theory irrelevant completely... they are clones of Lillith/Adam.

Which "Evangelion Soul Theory" do you mean? Rei in Unit-00? I'd say it is very relevant to understanding what happened during the compatibility tests, which will support further theories and understanding of the series as a whole. What you need to keep in mind is that Rei has no soul of her own. She harbors Lilith's soul, and gradualy "makes it her own". She develops different personas with Liliths soul, every Rei is a different person. When we see Rei-003, she seems to have a very pessimistic view of her existance compared to Rei-002, and knows that her time is very limited to experience and understand life and her role.

Anyway, the soul of Unit-00 isn't Rei-001's. I believe its a "Rei-001 influenced Lilith's Soul Imprint" (Basically, "Rei-001's soul, but not technically). It fits to explain what happens during each of Unit-00's incidents and why. Against this theory I've only heard that it cant be her, and not any sound reason why it might be someone else or no one at all. I used to believe, based on hearsay, that Naoko's soul was in Unit-00, but her soul or no soul just doesn't explain enough abd fit well enough to be true.
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Old 24-02-2002, 09:43 AM   #12   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs
Two problems come initially to mind when I think about this theory.

First, if Rei "controls" Eva-00 by using her "Angel abilities" becuase it has no soul, then how can she "control" Eva-01, which we know has a resident soul (Yui) who is far from not being dominant.

Rei successfully controls unit 01, which episode is this? i must have missed it. If you aer referrring to the test experiment about synching, your confusing yourself.

Being able to synch is only half the challenge.

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Old 24-02-2002, 11:03 AM   #13   [permalink]
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ATh:

Rei successfully controls unit 01, which episode is this? i must have missed it. If you aer referrring to the test experiment about synching, your confusing yourself.

Being able to synch is only half the challenge.


I don't think so. In episode 14 Rei takes part in a "compatibility" test with Eva-01. It is a test to see if she can synch with, and thus ultimately control Eva-01.

During the "compatibility" test Ritsuko says, "The synchro-ratio is almost the same as that with Unit Zero." to which Maya replies, "A similar personal pattern is shared between Unit Zero and Unit One.

In my opinion they are talking about Rei's ability to "control" Eva-01. I think that synchronisation equates to activation, which equates to control. It seems to me that Rei succeeded in "controlling" Eva-01, which having a very dominant soul, would indicate (at least to me) that Rei isn't controlling the Eva using her "Angel abilities".

Plus there is also the comment about Eva-01 and Eva-00's "personal pattern" being similar.

However that really isn't my main problem with the "Soulless Eva-00" theory. I can accept that it may be possible for Rei to "control" Eva-01, to override Yui. The biggest issue for me is that when Shinji gets into Eva-00 he is "contacted" by the Eva. Shinji says that something is "contacting him", entering directly into his mind, and when suggested that it is coming from the Entry Plug, Maya says that isn't possible, that the "contact" is coming from the Eva itself.

Shinji is "contacted' by Eva-00. If there were no soul in it, then what was he "contacted" by?
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Old 24-02-2002, 11:19 AM   #14   [permalink]
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residual memory.

A form is simply free flowing energy which begins to 'flow' within a certain way/path.

The mind gives off electromagnetic resonance, the eva units will be tuned into this for the pilots to beable to control them with thought.

After a long time (and i rei has been piloting unit00 for at least 6 months before shinji arrives) the 'mindwaves' or the residual thoughts of rei will become impressed within unit 00.

It is likely that this is what was 'contacting' shinji, and it is possible that this is what rei 'smells' when in the entry plug of 01.


Examples of real life situations where such a thing has been felt can be found. Churches have a 'feel ' to them due to continuous build up of thsi mental energy. (new church buildings dont have this feeling)

cemetary buildings have a feel to them. Even someone who spends all their time brooding on ill thoughts will create a room that feels uninviting to people who enter.


Most energy will disipate with a little time and most will never be felt by the average person. But continued focus upon images (thoughts included) will create a tangable (if only through a weird feeling) energy form.


Lastly , if rei is able to operate unit 01 then why did if forcefully reject her, making it very clear that rei will not operate her.

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Old 24-02-2002, 12:48 PM   #15   [permalink]
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ATh:

residual memory.

A form is simply free flowing energy which begins to 'flow' within a certain way/path.

The mind gives off electromagnetic resonance, the eva units will be tuned into this for the pilots to beable to control them with thought.

After a long time (and i rei has been piloting unit00 for at least 6 months before shinji arrives) the 'mindwaves' or the residual thoughts of rei will become impressed within unit 00.

It is likely that this is what was 'contacting' shinji, and it is possible that this is what rei 'smells' when in the entry plug of 01.


Examples of real life situations where such a thing has been felt can be found. Churches have a 'feel ' to them due to continuous build up of thsi mental energy. (new church buildings dont have this feeling)

cemetary buildings have a feel to them. Even someone who spends all their time brooding on ill thoughts will create a room that feels uninviting to people who enter.


Most energy will disipate with a little time and most will never be felt by the average person. But continued focus upon images (thoughts included) will create a tangable (if only through a weird feeling) energy form.


Right... and this "residual memory" caused Eva-00 to go berserk how exactly? It is stated explicitly that the "mental contamination" that caused the incident was coming from within the Eva.

I understand the concept of “residual memory”, though I haven’t before seen it described quite the same way as you did. I just don’t think it applies in this particular situation. In my opinion it leaves too many things unanswered.


Lastly , if rei is able to operate unit 01 then why did if forcefully reject her, making it very clear that rei will not operate her.

It only rejected her in episode 19 after it had been "controlled" by the dummy plug. It rejected the dummy plug in episode 19 too remember, and I don't think the dummy plug has "Angel Abilities". I think that Yui was rejecting anything that wasn't Shinji.

In episode 14 however Rei managed to synchronise with Eva-01 successfully. There is also the comment concerning the similarity between the "personality patterns" of Eva-00 and Eva-01.
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