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Old 05-04-2002, 10:56 PM   #1   [permalink]
Black_Knight
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New throies of the Soul Imprintation process…

Conserning with Evangelion Unit-02's soul… Kyoko… We already know that it's in there… But the question reamains… How did it get there?

Main speculation would be that during the contact experement, Kyoke Soul was imprinted into the Eva and that with her soul copied, the one in her body degraded which caused her to go insane and later commit suicide…

I have a rather radical idea that perhaps there wasn't a soul imprintation at all… And that Kyoko was just a person without a soul… Your probably thinking, "If she doesn't have a soul, she won't have an AT Field and she'll be nothing more than a puddle of LCL," Well I have reason to belive that the Soul is not the area where the AT Field is created… Perhaps it's the mind which is the catalist that is needed to activate the AT Field and not the soul… So as long as you have the AT Field, even without a soul… You will survive… Sure you'll go nuts, but you will survive…
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Originally Posted by Pengi_Ken-Ohki
Getting hit on AB is like an attack in my own home. Curse you BK, CURSE YOU!
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Old 06-04-2002, 12:30 AM   #2   [permalink]
SeI ThIm
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Well....as you said above, Kyouko soul was imprinted into Unit 02. Kyouko "gave" her soul to Unit 02, this test left her unstable. She still had her soul but her mind was gone. This are the basics of this theory
About the AT Field
Quote:
Abbreviation of "ABSOLUTE TERROR FIELD". An absolute domain deployed by the Angels and Eva that forms a physical barrier. This field boasts enormous defensive power, and is able to greatly diminish the power of all weapons. The Evas' ability to neutralize A.T.Fields is a major reason why they were viewed as the only weapon capable of countering the Angels. However, not only Angels and Eva, but also humans possess A.T.Fields, and it is these A.T.Fields that separate humans from each other and give them their physical forms. Nagisa Kaworu described A.T.Fields as "the barrier of the heart that everybody has."
He also said that the "AT Field is the light of soul"
Your mind/heart decides when the AT Field will be manifested...and the soul produces it.
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Old 06-04-2002, 09:36 AM   #3   [permalink]
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But if her mind was gone, her heart would have never been able to hold up without the mind… And it would lead to a collapes…

Also, just because the AT field protects the soul… Doesn't mean that it's the creator of it too…
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Originally Posted by Pengi_Ken-Ohki
Getting hit on AB is like an attack in my own home. Curse you BK, CURSE YOU!
"I am simply living life the way I see fit. Anything can go unpunished if done in the name of God. Convenient, is it not?"
-Bishop Oro
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Old 06-04-2002, 10:44 AM   #4   [permalink]
SeI ThIm
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When I said "her mind was gone" I meant that she went insane...she was mentally unstable. Her body worked fine...but her mind didn`t.
At Field is as I said before the light of the soul...Soul produces it to protect the body mind and heart. Remember what Asuka said in EoE?
"Now I know the meaning of the AT Field...you have always been with me mama!"
Considering what you said before:
Quote:
Conserning with Evangelion Unit-02's soul… Kyoko… We already know that it's in there…
than this explanation of the AT Field is true.
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Old 06-04-2002, 03:07 PM   #5   [permalink]
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Re: New throies of the Soul Imprintation process…

Quote:
Originally posted by Black_Knight
Conserning with Evangelion Unit-02's soul… Kyoko… We already know that it's in there… But the question reamains… How did it get there?

Main speculation would be that during the contact experement, Kyoke Soul was imprinted into the Eva and that with her soul copied, the one in her body degraded which caused her to go insane and later commit suicide…

I have a rather radical idea that perhaps there wasn't a soul imprintation at all… And that Kyoko was just a person without a soul… Your probably thinking, "If she doesn't have a soul, she won't have an AT Field and she'll be nothing more than a puddle of LCL," Well I have reason to belive that the Soul is not the area where the AT Field is created… Perhaps it's the mind which is the catalist that is needed to activate the AT Field and not the soul… So as long as you have the AT Field, even without a soul… You will survive… Sure you'll go nuts, but you will survive…
Gee BK you must be a genius considering I've posted this theory numerous times well before this

I believe the Ego Borderline, and not the AT field is what keeps the human body in it's form. So when Kyoko was in the first activation experiment for EVA 02, her soul was taken and she turned into LCL, similar to what happened to shinji. However she did not want this to happen and was so strong willed she managed to force her body to retake its shape. However without her soul she was driven insane, to the end result which you see in the show.
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Old 06-04-2002, 03:37 PM   #6   [permalink]
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Re: Re: New throies of the Soul Imprintation process…

Quote:
Originally posted by Hiigaran


Gee BK you must be a genius considering I've posted this theory numerous times well before this

I believe the Ego Borderline, and not the AT field is what keeps the human body in it's form. So when Kyoko was in the first activation experiment for EVA 02, her soul was taken and she turned into LCL, similar to what happened to shinji. However she did not want this to happen and was so strong willed she managed to force her body to retake its shape. However without her soul she was driven insane, to the end result which you see in the show.
Bite me… I am not prone to listening to others… But you already know that…

The theroy seems to work out… But I still belive that it is the AT Field that is necesary to retain the human shape…

Quote:
Makoto:
All Eva units - still active!

Shigeru:
The Anti-AT Field from Lilith... it's expanding further! It's materializing!

(The earth's surface under the Black Moon turns white spreading outwards and Lilith-Rei emerges, cupping the Black Moon in her hands)

Makoto:
Anti-AT Field critical limit exceeded!

Shigeru:
No...! If this continues, individual life-forms will be unable to maintain their separate entities!

(Lilith-Rei spreads her wings)

Fuyutsuki:
The Chamber of Guf (Hall of Souls) has been unsealed...
Has the door to the world's beginning and end finally opened?

(Souls begin to gather around the Black Moon)

(Countless Reis begin to turn people into LCL)
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Originally Posted by Pengi_Ken-Ohki
Getting hit on AB is like an attack in my own home. Curse you BK, CURSE YOU!
"I am simply living life the way I see fit. Anything can go unpunished if done in the name of God. Convenient, is it not?"
-Bishop Oro
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Old 06-04-2002, 03:46 PM   #7   [permalink]
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Ok...I could quote episode 20 where they try and retrieve shinji and are talking about how the ego-borderline isn't stabilizing. Whats your point? Thats also why in EoE Rei states that the people can come back to their original forms if they have the will to do so...I should probably look up that line in an online script for the movie.

EDIT: here's the part I was talking about.

Quote:
Kaworu:
But people must act of their own free will, or nothing will change at all.

Rei:
So you must find your lost self on your own...
Even if you lose your own words, or become lost in others' words.

(EVA-01 grasps and splits the Lance of Longinus... The Lances impaling the Eva series burst and disappear)

Rei:
Anyone can return to human form as long as they can imagine themselves in their own heart.

(The Eva series go silent and fall to Earth... Crosses rise into the heavens)

Yui (voice):
Don't worry.
All living things have the ability to return to their original form... and the heart to go on living.
Anywhere can be heaven as long as you have the will to live.
After all, you're alive... and you can find the chance to achieve happiness anywhere.

(Rei appears before the now silent EVA-01... EVA-01, the Lance, and millions of crosses continue to ascend into space)

Yui (voice):
As long as the Sun, the Moon and the Earth exist, everything will be all right.

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Last edited by Hiigaran; 06-04-2002 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 06-04-2002, 05:21 PM   #8   [permalink]
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I stand corrected… It seems your point is most valid… And also seems to be the most correct one…
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Originally Posted by Pengi_Ken-Ohki
Getting hit on AB is like an attack in my own home. Curse you BK, CURSE YOU!
"I am simply living life the way I see fit. Anything can go unpunished if done in the name of God. Convenient, is it not?"
-Bishop Oro
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Old 07-04-2002, 04:26 PM   #9   [permalink]
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Angry I think

Her life was a mess, and when she had her contact experiment, she went through something like Shinji did when he got absorbed into 01, and by coming to terms that her life was a mess, she broke down due to that.

Maybe the soul can be in more than 1 place at once, I dunno. Maybe it got imprinted/copied. I really thinks it's a pretty blatant clue that when Asuka realises her mother is in 02 it flashes a shot of her corpse. Maybe they put her body into it after she died, or just her soul. I
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Old 08-04-2002, 12:36 PM   #10   [permalink]
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I think the idea of Kyouko's soul being in unit 02 and her soul-less body going insane is very likely. As I mentioned the soul-less Rei clones maintain physical form - I don't think it matters that they are in a tank of LCL. Even the evas, prior to getting souls, maintain their physical form. I don't know how one could explain things like a limb being chopped off and not turning into LCL- does the AT field maintain the physical form of the body part from a distance? Seems a bit ridiculous to me.

However, this isn't why the soul-imprint theory came about. It came about to explain how Unit 00 has a soul.

So the idea of Kyouko losing her soul to Unit 02 and staying alive without a soul is not actually part of the soul imprint theory as far as I know. The soul imprint theory basically means that the soul leaves an impression of itself inside the eva, but can return to or remain in the individual that normally posesses the soul.
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Old 10-04-2002, 09:30 AM   #11   [permalink]
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The soul imprint theory was developed (at least for me originally) to explain Kyouko and Eva-02.

To the soul belongs the AT Field, without a soul you can't have an AT Field, and without an AT Field you can't maintain physical form.

That general rule is shown exceedingly well in EoE. It applies to normal humans in all senses as far was we ever see in Eva.

The Eva's, Adam and Lilith, and the Rei's in the tank of LCL are exceptions to this rule, however all of these exceptions are explainable.

The point remains that normal humans require AT Fields to maintain physical form. Kyouko maintained physical form, thus she must have possessed an AT Field.

AT Fields are produced by the soul, so if Kyouko had an AT Field, she must also have had a soul. Thus the Imprint theory was developed to explain that.
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Old 10-04-2002, 10:03 AM   #12   [permalink]
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I'm sticking with my ego-borderline idea. It just makes more sense to me. All it takes is knowledge of yourself to maintain your form.

I do rather like the question though, if the AT field is required to maintain your body, how did the EVAs maintain their physical forms without a soul inside the core?
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Old 10-04-2002, 10:40 AM   #13   [permalink]
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c'mon MD Wigs, you didn't answer this one

I don't know how one could explain things like a limb being chopped off and not turning into LCL- does the AT field maintain the physical form of the body part from a distance? Seems a bit ridiculous to me.
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Old 10-04-2002, 05:49 PM   #14   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by MDWigs
That general rule is shown exceedingly well in EoE. It applies to normal humans in all senses as far was we ever see in Eva.

The Eva's, Adam and Lilith, and the Rei's in the tank of LCL are exceptions to this rule, however all of these exceptions are explainable.
You evaded the question… Remember the last part that Yui was talking about in the end of the movie? Besides, in Eps 20, they were looking for Shinji's Ego Borderline, not the soul… Reconstruct the Ego, the body is able to mainfest…

Besides that, Just why are the Evas, Adam, Lilith, and the Skinnydipping Rei's are the exception anyway?
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Originally Posted by Pengi_Ken-Ohki
Getting hit on AB is like an attack in my own home. Curse you BK, CURSE YOU!
"I am simply living life the way I see fit. Anything can go unpunished if done in the name of God. Convenient, is it not?"
-Bishop Oro
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Old 10-04-2002, 09:11 PM   #15   [permalink]
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Hiigaran:

I'm sticking with my ego-borderline idea. It just makes more sense to me. All it takes is knowledge of yourself to maintain your form.


People had "knowledge" of themselves in EoE. Yet they still lost physical form because of an AT Field generated by Lilith. They didn't have a choice (Aoba certainly didn't want to lose physical form).

I do rather like the question though, if the AT field is required to maintain your body, how did the EVAs maintain their physical forms without a soul inside the core?

See below, I explain all the exceptions there.

whiteraven:

c'mon MD Wigs, you didn't answer this one


I wasn't trying to. I was merely attempting to correct your statement that "...the idea of Kyouko losing her soul to Unit 02 and staying alive without a soul is not actually part of the soul imprint theory as far as I know."

The soul imprint theory was originally only ever about Kyouko.

I don't know how one could explain things like a limb being chopped off and not turning into LCL- does the AT field maintain the physical form of the body part from a distance? Seems a bit ridiculous to me.

For starters we don't know that they don't turn into LCL. We never see it actually happen. We "assume" that real world thought applies to these situations but we don't know that it does.

I think that has to be kept in the back of your mind whenever you think about this issue - we don't know that they don't.

Now I'm not saying that they do, just that we don't know either way. Now there is an error in EoE, where we see a JSSDF's hand, holding a phone, lying on the floor. Apparently Anno just wanted to show a hand holding a phone. In the end it was shown by itself without "popping".

Black_Knight:

You evaded the question…


No I simply didn't answer the question. I wasn't even intending too, the question wasn't posed to me directly after all.

Remember the last part that Yui was talking about in the end of the movie?

I do. What about it?

Besides, in Eps 20, they were looking for Shinji's Ego Borderline, not the soul… Reconstruct the Ego, the body is able to mainfest…

The Ego belongs to the soul. The ego here is effectively just another name for you AT Field. At that point in the series we were still not aware the normal humans have AT Fields, that they are the light of our souls, and that they maintain physical form for us. Looking back it is clear what happened (Shinji described the process in episode 25 as being "similar to what he felt before"). However at the time we are kept in the dark. They use words like "ego" however your ego-boderline is projected by your soul anyway.

Maya describes the "salvaging" process as follows: "Salvaging means reconstructing his body and fixing his soul into it." They were looking to Shinji's soul. They wanted to recreate his body and then put his soul back into it.

Besides that, Just why are the Evas, Adam, Lilith, and the Skinnydipping Rei's are the exception anyway?

Adam and Lilith are exceptions for obvious reasons. They are "sources of life", they are effectively Gods. Obviously Anti-AT Fields don't affect them (see EoE), they don't need AT Fields to maintain physical form. Their "bodies" are special unlike ours. Their bodies are important (the Angels sensed the bodies of Adam and Lilith, not the souls (Adam's soul was in Kaoru, Lilith's in Rei). Obvious the body itself has special properties.

The Eva just follow on from that. They were created from Adam or Lilith, and thus they share their properties.

The Rei clones in the tank of LCL... are in a tank of LCL. That maintains their physical form. Ritsuko only needs to disrupt that tank slightly (release destrudo) and they all simply fall apart.
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