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Old 13-11-2000, 12:43 AM   #1   [permalink]
Longinus
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Aight, this is my question. If Asuka's mummy's soul is in Unit 02, Shinji's mummy's soul is in unit 01 and Touji's mummy's soul is in Unit 03 (correct me if I'm wrong) then, seeing as Rei dont really have a Mummy 'cept for Yui (who is already "occupied") then who's soul is in Unit 00?
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Old 13-11-2000, 12:51 AM   #2   [permalink]
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I doubt many people would believe that Toji's mother's soul was in Unit 03, since it was possessed by an angel. As for Unit 00, I believe (which is well within my right) that Ritsuko's mother's soul is in it. This would explain why Unit 00 when beserk on several occasions, trying to kill Gendo and Rei (who Ritsuko's mother believe was Yui)

My opinion is as valid as the next mans (or womans)!
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Old 13-11-2000, 03:17 AM   #3   [permalink]
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Old 13-11-2000, 06:38 AM   #4   [permalink]
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The Eva's many not have been completed at the time, but maybe the way the souls where store was....As you said, this question is like 'who killed kaji', there is no official answer, so people can believe what ever they want....
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Old 13-11-2000, 08:09 AM   #5   [permalink]
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More importainly, How did they get the Souls into the Evangelion???
Or are they just They clone of the soul, just like the Evangelions are the clones of either Adam or Lilith.
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Old 13-11-2000, 09:32 AM   #6   [permalink]
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Ritsukos mums soul was in Unit 00
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Old 13-11-2000, 08:50 PM   #7   [permalink]
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RadiSkull not necesarilly... There is absolutly no proof that Reitsukos mother is in Eva00 apart from that where did this whole thing of Tojis mom being in Eva03 come from?????
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Old 13-11-2000, 08:56 PM   #8   [permalink]
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When Rei and Shinji switch evas, its true that they manage to sinchronize with the evas, but in shinjis case it goes bezerk and tries to kill Rei. 2 possibilities come to mind the first is that Ritzukos mom inhabits eva-00 and the second that the evangelion knows that Rei is lilith and because it is a clone of adam it decides destroy her.
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Old 13-11-2000, 10:03 PM   #9   [permalink]
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I cant believe ive never thought of this before.

Its not fair that Anno could just leave it out, he gives no inkling whose soul is in Unit 0s. But it cant be neone can it? Because in order for the Eva to sync doesnt it have to care for the pilot? Eg. Shinji and Asuka (moms)
So if Rei is a clone of Yui but also has the soul of Lilith, who links them together?

How about the REAL Rei. I know Rei is supposedly a clone of Yui, but what if there was an orginal Rei.

Ie. When Rei was still a gamete, they removed her genetic code and replaced it with Yui's. Also by doing this they took away her soul and her right to live. They simply put the sould into Unit 0 cos it needed one. Because Rei's soul is in unit 0, it would explain why she would want to protect herself?

hehe wot a CRAZY idea
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Old 13-11-2000, 10:22 PM   #10   [permalink]
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Ok, I know I'm new here so don't crucify me.

Here's my 2 cents on the EVA's and souls: The EVA units do not have them. I don't remember where it states it (I think it's in the red cross book, but I forget), but it says that the EVAs need a human to provide a soul. Each of the EVAs has a MIND, as does the MAGI computer system. This is stated in the 13th (?) episode where Ritsuko talks about the personality OS (or something like that, I'm working from memory). She says that the MAGI are programmed with her mothers mind -- literally -- and that the EVAs have the same system. Since Yui was absorbed by EVA 01, my opinion is that this is the only unit that has a sould by itself. I think the incidents with the 00 unit are the result of a powerful MENTAL hatred for Ritsuko, who was present at both berserk episodes, and even says "I think it was trying to kill ME!"

Who is EVA 00's mind? My guess is: Yui. I know, she is already in EVA 01, but who's to say that her mind was not used for both units? I think she would try to kill Ritsuko because (ding ding ding) Ritsuko's mother killed her. Ritsuko's mother says "I'm glad she died", so I think she had something to do with her death.

It would have to be someone that has SOME link with Shinji, because he can pilot it, whereas Asuka cannot. They even say at one point that Asuka could ONLY pilot unit 02... they never say why, but it must have something to do with the mind in the EVA unit

Ok, maybe that was more like my 5 cents worth, but now I'm done. Anyone have any reason why I might be wrong? I'd love to be proven wrong, or wright, I just want to know for sure!!
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Old 13-11-2000, 10:40 PM   #11   [permalink]
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Old 14-11-2000, 11:02 PM   #12   [permalink]
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well I believe that there is no resident soul in 00. but i am lazy to type, so i'll just post one of my last replies on the matter

Quote:
"The pilots provide a soul for the EVA so that it can function with a working AT field during activation and have someone to command it and link up with the robot.. this is a proven fact, the pilots provide a soul to the EVAs. "

true, but you should remember that in addition to the pilots' there is also the soul which resides in the core. you should also bear in mind that individual humans cant raise or spread their own ATfield the way angels do. Using Yui as reference, we know that she reached 400 or more % sync ratio and was absorbed into 01. Now we know that the higher the sync rate, the better a pilot can control the eva. so if one is 400% synced, he looses his atfield and becomes one with the eva. however there are setbacks to this 400+ sync rate and that is loosing yourself.


"What's the purpose of having a soul inside the EVA when there's already a soul provided by the pilot? I'm not too sure.."

like I said above, though the resident soul is one with the eva and is capable of running it on its own, it has its setbacks and that is loosing yourself. It is this reason that Yui is not able to maintain a 24/7 control after she was absorbed hence the necessity of a pilot. In order for a pilot to control the eva, he must first sync with the resident soul. Take a puppet for example – the eva is the puppet, the resident soul is the string connected to the puppet, and the pilot is the puppet master.

Now no one can just sync with any eva with a resident soul in it. Since the pilots job is to control the eva through the resident soul, the resident soul has the option or capacity to either accept or reject the commands given by the pilot. But if the resident soul is related to the pilot, such as mother-son, the resident soul feels the bond between them and accepts the commands.

Since the resident soul is 400+ % synced with the eva, and can control it on its own, the pilots job is to sync with the resident soul so that through it, he can control the eva. Now during synchronization, there is a little complementation which takes place. I say little bec the pilot is still separated from the resident soul through his own at field. Instead the resident soul becomes an extension of the pilot hence he is able to spread an atfield. So based on the concept of complementation, 1+1=3 or more since the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Something similar occurs during synchronization, both souls complement each other thus the pilot is able to spread an atfield – through the resident soul


“but we only see the resident soul at work when the EVA goes beserk, when the pilot can no longer maintain activation and can no longer control the EVA. We never see what happens to the pilot when the EVA goes beserk, but because we see nothing then we can only presume that nothing happens to them and that they do nothing.. so whatever the actions of the EVA when they go beserk may be blamed on the soul that resides inside it.”

I would have to think so. Though there are exceptions such as 00 which doesn’t have a soul


“… It could have been the mother instinct, when the pilot is in trouble the residing mother soul may purposely make the EVA deactivate and then take over to protect their child inside.”

I don’t think so, when a pilot is in control, he is IN control – meaning, he keeps the eva powered up through his thoughts. However when the eva is knocked out or heavily damaged, he looses that control since something happens to the links between him and the eva. thus I do not believe the mother purposely deactivates the eva to save her son


“But.. the stumbling block of all this is EVA-00 and Rei. There has to be a soul inside EVA-00.. there has to be. Every EVA must have a residing soul, or else they would not be able to go beserk, and so far each EVA has (but in EoE EVA 02 reactivated after being trashed not because of the residing soul but because of Asuka's astoundingly strong will to live). “

no its not a big stumbling block. Eva 00 doesn’t have a soul. The reason, Rei who has liliths soul is capable of generating an Atfield herself. This would mean that Liliths soul, unlike the lilin is one powerful soul, since it is an angel and a progenitor at that.

Since Rei can generate an Atfield on her own, she does not need the complementation of a resident soul to generate it. She does not also need the help of “strings” to control the eva since 00, though composed of Adam and different from her, is actually similar to her just like angels are similar to lilin – it is just a small difference in DNA. So since her soul is that of Lilith, she is capable of controlling the eva, though not as good as Kaworu- who has adams soul. It is for this reason that she can sync with unit 01, who is basically cloned from her. The only reason why she doesn’t fully sync with it is bec of Yui.

Now it was raised by someone that an eva needs a soul to generate an Atfield or else they turn to LCL. Though this rule may apply to lilin, it does not apply to angels – take lilith as an example. It is known that Rei has her soul hence the being on the cross is merely her body. so even without her soul, she is still a whole being – by that I mean she still has her form and not turned to LCL. Instead she bleeds LCL. Another example would be Adam. Since he’s soul is in Kaworu, the adam which was brought by kaji was just an empty shell…. Even if it was encased in bakelite, it still had its form – that of an embryo.


[/i]“When the EVA goes beserk there is no interface with the pilot, the nerve curcuits are disconnected, there is no possible connection with the pilot. Like with Shinji with the 3rd angel the circuits were not reconnected until after the EVA stopped, and judging by the look on Shinji's face he had no idea how what had just happened happened. And with EVA-00 going beserk (back to the point) the entry plug was ejected, proving that it was due to the EVA not the pilot, and that the soul inside the EVA must be to blame.” [/i]

though that rule may apply to the eva’s with resident souls. It does not apply to 00 who does not have a soul. Like I said above, lilith is in Rei. It is Lilith and not Naoko (I shall use Naoko as an example since it is assumed by most that the evidence points to her) who has more reason to hate Gendou, Ritsuko, and Rei. Gendou and Ritsuko bec. of what they have and are doing to her and Rei bec she is kept in a body which she is unable to leave. If the angels could feel lilith and assume she was adam, lilith who was in Rei, could have felt the same thing.

Now I said above that it was easy for Kaworu to sync with 02 bec. 02 is cloned from his original body. Rei on the other hand took seven mos to sync with 00 since 00 was cloned from adam and she is lilith. However there is a small dif in their DNA so she still is capable of controlling it. You should also consider the possibility that pilots leave their imprints on the eva’s. but even if they didn’t, the numerous syncing has made Rei and 00 similar or connected – hence the “it smells like Ayanami” which shinji says when he syncs with it.

Now since Rei has synced with 00 numerous times, her soul has familiarized itself with the eva. hence it was able to take control even when the link was cut from the pilot and the entry plug was ejected – remember, kaworu controlled 02 outside it and even raised his own atfield to defend himself from 01’s attack while at the same time controlling 02 to fight 01. So if kaworu could do it, what makes you think Rei or Lilith’s soul couldn’t do the same thing though not as effective with 00.


“But then there is also the residual effect of the pilots.. their though patterns and personalities left behind in the EVA. When Rei piloted EVA-00 and it went beserk it went after Gendo.. and this could be the fact that deep within Rei she really hated Gendo and knew exactly what he was planning to do- to bring about the End of the World and to control that event. Shinji could sync with EVA-00, but he complained of problems as well.. that something was trying to invade his mind.”

if there is indeed a residual effect left by the pilots, then it would strengthen my theory as to why lilith was able to take control of 00 – through this residual effect which is left by Rei, lilith is able to take control of 00 even if she is outside it. It would also explain why Shinji is able to sync with it. Through his connection with Rei.

When Shinji synced with 00 he said that there was something trying to invade his mind. Then he sees an image of Rei. Perhaps this is your residual effect that has been left behind. After that, the eva goes berserk – how is this? My theory was bec of liliths soul right? But since Rei was outside 00 this would be difficult, but then again, through the residual effect, lilith can take control even if she is not inside 00 – but here is the good part, Rei was standing in front of 00 when it went berserk again.

So my interpretation of this is, using the residual effect, Lilith entered 00. When shinji went to second contact, lilith used the image of Rei which was left inside 00 as a trojan horse, if you will, to take over shinji much like the 16th angel tries to merge with Rei later on in the series. But why shinji? perhaps she knew that Shinji will sync later on with 01 and since 01 was protected by Yui, she needed Shinji to bypass Yui. Take control of 01 and become whole again… maybe even go as far as reuniting with her original body in terminal dogma.

But before that she had to free herself from Rei and that was why 00 went berserk and attacked Rei. If Rei was killed, her soul would be free and she could use the connection she already had with 00 as a sort of lifeline and pull herself towards it.
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Old 16-11-2000, 01:22 PM   #13   [permalink]
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Well that was certainly a nice long post to wade through, but it beat around the bush a bit.

I think that whole Lilithsoul-tring-to-kill-Rei-and-rejoin-lilith-via-Shinji theory(??) to explain why Eva 00 goes berserk is a little thin.

And that post still didnt answer why shinji would be able to sync at ALL with Eva 00 if it didnt have a soul. And I am not talking about the episode where it goes beserk, because they were tring some new sync experiment. Im talking a bout the episode where Shinji says that Unit 00 smells like Rei and Rei says 01 smells like Shinji.
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Old 16-11-2000, 10:59 PM   #14   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hexus
And that post still didnt answer why shinji would be able to sync at ALL with Eva 00 if it didnt have a soul. And I am not talking about the episode where it goes beserk, because they were tring some new sync experiment. Im talking a bout the episode where Shinji says that Unit 00 smells like Rei and Rei says 01 smells like Shinji.
apparently it seems you didnt read the whole post - it is there - i know, i read it and took out "more uncecessarry" parts, before i actually posted it.

as for the "little thin" give me those points and i'll see if i can make it thicker

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Old 17-11-2000, 12:07 AM   #15   [permalink]
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I found Ryezen's post very interesting and thankfully it runs along my own feelings on the matter (read some of me other posts around the place)

because naeko had little to do with the eva series, and she had no maternal feelings for Rei, so there was no need to put her in there.

Hexus I can't fit everything he said into my mind, but I believe that Shinji could possibly sync with Eva00 because it has Rei's imprint. Rei is Yui..even tho Yui's soul aint there, her thought patterns may be, we all know how Rei felt about Shinji..so it might still work that way.

The puppet metaphor was excellent btw :-)
*sits back to let Ryezen's explanation seep out..my brain is low on memory..I need an upgrade..maybe if I could shut down a few processes...*

sorry..I just have wayyyy too much on my mind *sigh*
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