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Old 07-03-2001, 06:19 AM   #1   [permalink]
Morbius
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Anime, like any other medium, is filled with more examples of bad than good. It's just like any other genre of film, there is only a small percentage of it that is worth watching. The rest is crap. This is because it takes a lot to make something that catches the interest of the audience. It's more than just the animation. It's the storyline, the characters, the music, the setting and everything else.

So my question to you is, why do choose to watch a specific anime series? If you had the option to watch every anime series ever made, would you? Do you watch series purely because it is japanese animation or do you consider things like plot, setting, characters and theme when making your decision?

My view is that an anime series needs a little more than senseless violence or stupid humour. It needs to make me think a little. I won't watch a series unless it interests me and I feel that I can get something out of watching it. Series like Evangelion, Lain and Escaflowne have provided this to me. Series like Gundam, Tenchi Muyo or DragonBall Z, despite being very entertaining, really do nothing for me. I don't want to be merely entertained by anime, I want to be made to think and wonder because of it.

While you're thinking about my other questions, list some of the anime series which have raised questions inside of you. The series that you felt were thought provoking and not merely entertaining.

P.S. This thread was inspired by a conversation I had with Havok on AIM. I thought I saved the convo and I was going to use parts of it in this thread but I couldn't find it. I think I covered everything we discussed though. If not, Havok can fill in what I left out.
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Old 07-03-2001, 07:20 AM   #2   [permalink]
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well, ffor me it is not only the plot that always counts. i can watch series, just to know what happens to a person in the next episode. it is interesting to watch this certain character, how he grows up and so on, like in dragonball. but i also like neon genesis, cause the plot is cool, the chars, the music, everything is great about it. it depends all on my mood. sometimes i can sit in front of the tv and just watch plain and stupid stuff!
but i wouldnt watch everything. there are things i dont like in animes. i found md geist very stupid and i saw one episode of green legend ran. wasnt my kind of series!
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Old 07-03-2001, 09:25 AM   #3   [permalink]
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hmmmm... seriously... i've been a fan of anime for well over a decade now... but it's really not getting very interesting. sure, i'm sure that the Mechs in Gundam and ---- are SO COOL.. but it's been done... in the SAME format... LONG LONG AGO. seriously... i was interested in Mechs... then they made about a million different series about Mechs. i like Eva... why? because there's more to it than giant robots. in fact {SPOILER} they aren't even "giant robots" as they seem {END}... there's just so much more depth to Eva than other "Mecha Anime"... also, the staff themselves called Eva "the Anti-Mech story"

and what's with these series that are about 5eps in a row of the same ---- over and over again? it's almost as redundant as most American Cartoons.

here's a section of the chat. i changed one thing just so it wasn't Illegal for AB posting.

======================================================= ==============
Morbius6: I've watched a couple of episodes of various series recently but I haven't found any interesting ones yet...
Morbius6: Most of the stuff I'm interested in I can't find anywhere
havok de coeur: like what?
havok de coeur: you seen Lodoss War?
havok de coeur: Record of Lodoss War, i mean.
Morbius6: I've watched the OVA... But I got bored of it after a few episodes...
havok de coeur: really? wow, it's a classic for me.
Morbius6: I still have it though. Perhaps I'll take another look.
havok de coeur: you should... it's the only video i've seen so close to the actual table RPG feel
havok de coeur: it's so true to it's nature
havok de coeur: plus, it gets much better. it's mostly for if you're a fan of AD&D
havok de coeur: or the medieval such of table-top RPing
Morbius6: But I've been watching Excel Saga, FLCL and Vandread lately... None of them have caught my attention so far...
Morbius6: You should get Beserk
Morbius6: If you like RPing
havok de coeur: yeah, none of them have seemed to my liking at all.
havok de coeur: yeah, i've been wanting to look into Berserk.
havok de coeur: but the fansubs would take forever for me to download them all. is it out commercially yet?
Morbius6: No... Only fansubs
havok de coeur: damn
havok de coeur: well i was thinking of looking into them nExt {now tthat i've gotten all i can of BeBop} or Vision of Escaflowne.
havok de coeur: Nairohe was really on about me watching Escaflowne, but the first few eps haven't been that great.
havok de coeur: it certainly looks much better than most commercial Anime though
Morbius6: Yeah. I liked Escaflowne once I got past the first 5 or 6 episodes though
havok de coeur: alright then... i'll have to get up to there then
havok de coeur: i heard it gets very interesting once on 13+
Morbius6: Yeah. There's a lot of questions about fate and destiny in it... It's kind of interesting.
havok de coeur: i must say, i'm a great fan of Anime, but there's alot of ---- anime out there.
havok de coeur: yeah, that's what i look forward to.
Morbius6: Yeah. I know what you mean. I'd say only 10% of it is even worth watching.
havok de coeur: my problem is that i am always able to anticipate what will happen in the plot... or the twists or whatnot. and that makes me not able to enjoy them. they have to be VERY DIFFERENT for me to get into them.
havok de coeur: oh yeah, but that 10% is DAMN GREAT
havok de coeur: i definitely like Anime more than most Western cartoons though
Morbius6: You should really see Beserk then. You'll never be able to anticipate what happens at the end... It's very fucked up.
havok de coeur: a few Canadian and British ones are alright though
havok de coeur: awesome, i'm looking more than forward to seeing Berserk then.
havok de coeur: see.. i like the classics like AKIRA and Lodoss War and Ghost in the Shell and Gunnm and ----, but i mostly like the ones like Eva, Lain, BeBop, and the such.... the ones that have more to them than simple viewing qualities.
Morbius6: Yeah. I like something that is original. Not just another mecha anime or Pokemon clone.
havok de coeur: exactly
havok de coeur: i'm frankly sick of Mech anime now
Morbius6: Each episode has to be different too. There's too many anime series where each episode is pretty much the exact same thing over and over again.
havok de coeur: that's why i loved Eva so much... it's creators called it the "anti-mech story"
havok de coeur: oh yeah, like this new Outlaw Star bullshit...
havok de coeur: it's all redundant
havok de coeur: the most sickening part is when all these people say that Dragon Ball and Gundam and Tenchi are so great, and it's ------- boring.
Morbius6: Yeah. I just need something that makes me think a little. I can't just watch mindless fighting or humour anime.
havok de coeur: haha... you know what? i'm thinking we should post this chat in AB when we're done... hahah the parts about Anti-Anime atleast! lol
havok de coeur: yeah, i'm really not one for Comedy in general anyways
havok de coeur: unless it's cynicism
Morbius6: Actually, I think I might start a thread about looking for something more in anime...
Morbius6: I don't just watch something because it's anime...
havok de coeur: or you could start the tread showing the Argument in our Chat
Morbius6: Yeah... I'll probably use segments of it...
havok de coeur: cool
Morbius6: But I'm too lazy to do it today. I'll probably get to it tomorrow or something

======================================================= ==============

there... how's that?
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Old 07-03-2001, 09:30 AM   #4   [permalink]
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There seems to be several basic elements, and a balance of these in all anime. If you only like very few of these elements, your choice is harshly limited. I've found that I like almost all elements, excluding one or two. It's hard to find 'good' anime if you only like very few elements involved. That's why I like almost all anime. Quite honestly, I can say I haven't seen an anime I haven't liked yet. But then again, I am open to pursuasion...
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Old 07-03-2001, 09:49 AM   #5   [permalink]
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no.

all people work differently.

i personally like a LOT of aspects about Anime. this is why you will see me enjoying the following.............

Serial Experiments Lain
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Boogiepop wa Warawanai
Cowboy BeBop
Record of Lodoss War
Robot Carnival
3X3 Eyes
AD Police
Aa Megami-sama
Akira
A*LI*CE
All Purpose Cultural Catgirl NukuNuku
Android Announcer Maico
Angel Beat
Anice
Bakuretsu Hunters
Baoh
Birdy the Mighty
Blade of the Immortal
Bosco
Brain Powered
Biohunter
Bubblegum Crash
Bubblegum Crisis
Bubblegum Crisis 2040
Burn Up W
Can Can Bunny
Caravan Kidd
Card Captor Sakura
Demon City - Shinjuku
Devilman
Devilman Lady
Devil Hunter Yohko
Digimon {the first series}
Dirty Pair
Doki Doki Pretty League
Doomed Megalopolis
Dragon Half
Dragon Pink
Dual
Elf Wo Karu Mono Tachi
Fairy Land
Final Fantasy
Final Romance
Flame of Recca
Fushigi Yuugi {so far}
Galaxy Express 999
Galaxy Frauline Yuna
Gall Force
General
Geobreeders
Ghost in the Shell
Grave of the Fireflies
Gunbuster
Gundam {the first series}
Gunnm
Gunsmith Cats
Guyver
Hokuto No Ken
Hummingbirds
Hyper Police
Iceblade
Juubei-chan
Juubei Ninpuuchou
Key the Metal Idol
Kimagure Orange Road
Kimba the White Lion
Kimera
Kite
Laputa {Castle in the Sky}
Legend of Lemnear
Lost Universe
Macross
Magic Knights Rayearth
Mahou Tsukai Tai
Manie Manie
Martian Successor Nadesico
Mason Ikkoku
Megami Paradise
Megazone 23
Miyuki-Chan in the Wonderland
Mobile Police Patlabor
Mobile Suit Girls
Moldiver
Mononoke Hime
Nadesico
Nadia Blue water
Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
Nazca
On Your Mark
Otaku No Video
Outlanders
Perfect Blue
Petshop of Horrors
Phantom Quest Corp
Plastic Little
Pokemon
Project A-Ko
Queen Emeraldas
Ranma
Riot
Rose of Versailles
Ruin Explorers: Fam & Iri
Ruroni Kenshin
Sailor Moon
Sakura Wars
Shoujo Kakumei Utena
Slayers
Silent Mobius
Sol Bianca
Tenchi Muyo
Tenchi in Tokyo
Tenchi Universe
Transformers
Twilight of the Dark Master
U Jin
Umi ga Kikoeru
Urotsukidöji
Urusei Yatsura
Urushihara
Vampire
Vampire Hunter D
Vampire Princess Miyu
Vampire X
Video Girl Ai
Violinist of Hamelin
Voltron
Wedding Peach
Wicked City
X-the Movie
You're Under Arrest


..if i didn't have a large taste in the different aspects of Anime, the my list wouldn't be this big PLUS more that have most likely forgotten like Golgo 13 and Bastard!!..... eitherway, you can generalize all you'd like but due to over a decade of Anime Fandom, i think {with the exception of the new ----} that i've seen a nice ammount. and just about 90% of it is ----.
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Old 07-03-2001, 11:13 AM   #6   [permalink]
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Therein lies your problem, Havok. You can only mine the archives so long before you run out of interesting ---- to watch. Certainly there must be other remarkable (i.e. indie) series that never got past Japanese TVs, but for the most part, if you've been into anime for so long, it might be time to focus on other media. Myself, I've only been seriously into anime for a year. Hell, I haven't even begun to watch anime yet...I've just covered some of the "essentials" so to speak.

But I watch anime for entertainment. What entertains me can be almost anything as long as it's well-executed. I like smooth and active fight scenes, I like Lain-style plot development, I like NGE-style depth, I like Tenchi-style romantic comedy, I like characters that stick in my head. I watch DBZ because I enjoy the characters and can suspend my displeasure at the minor plot quibbles. I'm watching Bebop because I've never seen a series so artfully done. I'm renting the Kenshin TV eps because the history behind the show is just as fascinating as the action and the morals behind the characters.

There is no perfect medium for entertainment. There will always be people in it purely for the money or the fame. I've experienced enough American media for me to pick out the crap from the cool. It'll take me many more months, if not years, for me to get that way with anime.
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Old 07-03-2001, 12:55 PM   #7   [permalink]
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damn, you have such a way with words.. honestly though... i must applaud you on your word usage there.

but yeah, i've really been needing to watch Rurouni Kenshin, but i'm not going to settle for the "Samurai X" bullshit that is getting released in English. i can certainly say i've atleast a few more to look forward to like the following.......
  • Record of Lodoss War {Series II}
  • Sin
  • Rurouni Kenshin
  • Vision of Escaflowne
  • Berzerk
  • Gasaraki
..hmmm.... ah... and i figure i'll eventually watch Blue Submarine no.6 as well. i certianly don't see why not.

yeah, i was turned off of Anime after i saw Eva. then it took until Lain for me to be all over it again. then i saw BeBop... yummm.
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Old 07-03-2001, 02:53 PM   #8   [permalink]
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So just because there was 50 million mech shows, that somehow made Gundum less enjoyable?

How?

There are like more than 20 baseball teams in the US and Canada. Doesn't make watching my favorite team any less fun just because there are other teams out there.


I mean, to say that 10% of anime is good and the rest is crap has one major, overall problem. You are judging all of anime, even ones you have not seen, by your own standards of what is and what is not crap. What you think is crap might be what another person thinks is brillient.

I for one would take "Digimon", or even "Pokemon" any day over "Please Save My Earth", and I personally think PSME is crap, but that doesn't make it crap. What I saw as a convoluted, and pointless plot others might well have seen as genius. Just because it is my opinion does not make something crap or not.

If everyone had that kind of attitude, their would be no films made that weren;t things like "Schindler's List" and movies such as that with some deep and meaningful plot. That would be boring. That is why different genres exist. That is why we have Comedy, Drama, Horror, Romance as film types. Sometimes you need a great goof off movie because in my experince, people are sledom always in the mood for just one genre.

Like Tenchi. Tenchi is genius anime, for it's genre. It is not like the most meaningful anime, although there is meaning to it, but in it's genre, it is one of the best.

Dragonball Z has as tory, a great one, if you can be forgiving for plot holes, but if you come expecting the most refined and civilized of anime experinces, you will be dissappointed it.

Not every anime has a deep message like "Grave of the Fireflies", but that doesn;t mean that those anime aren;t just as genius or just a great of works of art. You have to realize and accept that anime is a highly genre oriented medium, and then if you must judge a series, judge it by it's peers.

That is like saying you want a complex look a socialogical development in pre-industrial Japan and then watching Ranma 1/2 and claiming Ranma 1/2 sucks because it didn't give you what you wanted. Of course it didn't, but that by no means means Ranma 1/2 is crap.

There is no universal anme standard, just the ones we set for ourselves. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

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Old 07-03-2001, 04:01 PM   #9   [permalink]
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I watch anime because I want to be entertained, that and I like the medium. When I find one that leaves me bored I move on. That's about as simple as it gets for me. Somedays I'm in a action mood, other days a comedy. It varies from there to adventure, romance, horror, fanservice, suspense, fantasy, science fiction and to some extent even hentai.

Now obviously as Otaku-sama has pointed out, everyone finds interest in different things. There will always be something out there that someone says is great while the rest say it was horrible. I'm not denying that I think some anime is bad. Those are the ones where I choose not to watch it ever again. I don't like to think of it as good or bad. I like to think was it entertaining and worth watching a second time or not entertaining and avoid it from then on. This largely revolves around the mood I'm in. If I do label something as bad, its because I'm giving my opinion to someone else on why they shouldn't watch it.

When looking for new anime to watch (by new I mean anime I have not seen yet) I weigh others opinions in my decision to watch something. If something is recommended by several people I put it on my list of to see. If enough people warn me away from it, I put it low on my list to see or maybe forget altogether.

All different kinds of anime exist because there is such a broad range of likes to please. I like that statement of your's Otaku-sama, "One man's trash is another man's treasure." I think that sums it up nicely.
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Old 07-03-2001, 05:08 PM   #10   [permalink]
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Different people watch anime for different reasons. My hubby has accused me in the past of "just watching things because they are anime", and I admit it, I'll watch anything once if it is anime. A lot of anime is crap, just as there are a lot of crap movies, crap novels, crap music, etc., but it's all a question of taste.

I am a fan of mecha & giant robots. Giant robot shows have been a fave of mine for a long time. This is probably due to the happy & care-free time I spent in Hong Kong as a child, watching robot anime on TV with my little brother (perhaps my subconcious is trying to get back to my youth..., who knows...,). In the past, if an anime show had robots in it, I would buy it. Because of this strategy (or stupidity, take your pick), I have 300+ VHS tapes of anime, and if I'm honest, I would say about 75% of it is utter rubbish, and there are some shows that I've only watched once. But, whilst I may have only watched those particular titles once, my hubby & our friends all like the anime that I found boring.

Over the past few years, I have been a bit more selective in the anime I buy, and mech/giant robots no longer dominate my viewing plans. I am more interested in shows that have a strong storyline, with well-put together characters, irrespective of whether there's mecha in it or not. One of my most recent finds was Shoujo Kakumei Utena. I haven't watched much shoujo anime, as I find most of it rather boring. So I was very surprised when I realised that I enjoyed Utena very much. I like shows that bring out emotions from within me, and Utena did this. My next purchase will hopefully be Serial Experiments Lain...,

And I have to admit, I only picked up Evangelion when I was in Hong Kong in 1996, because of the picture of EVA Unit-01 on the back of the VCD sleeve..., but due to the strong plot, & character development, it is now my favourite anime.., :B:
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Old 07-03-2001, 05:25 PM   #11   [permalink]
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I watch anime pretty much for the same reason I watch movies...

Entertainement... and why I like some better then others?...

Some have better and more life like characters, some have a good plot, some have the right amount of humor...

I think I find all those in my fav animes...

I wouldn't watch all anime series if I could, some I would simply concider crap and totally not my style, so I wouldn't watch them...

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Old 07-03-2001, 05:26 PM   #12   [permalink]
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im not: just cuz its anime, im gonna watch it

i like most of the topics, how deep they are........well, with what ive seen so far
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Old 10-03-2001, 03:27 PM   #13   [permalink]
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i am in to anime because they have a great way of looking at things and because they do good artistry but as for plot story line and other things go:

first i look for story line, then comes character development and attitudes, then it is setting(i.e. time),
then i look for why(like why was it made? is this show going tot make me laugh, think of just enjoy?), and finally i will look for graphics

if i saw an anikme with solly graphics i wouldn't bother touching it but if all it had for it was a kick arse story line and well basic(even 80's)graphics i will rent/watch/buy it

but when i ren out of everthing else i will go to things they i didn't choose in the begging for the pure fact that i am an anime fan and it is good to see a variety of things

i know by the time you get to this you'll probably not won't to read anymore but i do watchikng anything and everyhting if i have the chance and thats how i see it
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2. BubbleGum Crisis 2040
3. Rorouni Kenshin
4. Trigun
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Favorite anime/manga movies!
1. Akira
2. Ghost in the shell
3. Ninja Scroll
4. Samurai X
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Old 13-03-2001, 12:31 PM   #14   [permalink]
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Wasn't it Heinlein who said "10% of science fiction is crap...but, then again, 10% of everything is crap"? I think he's probably hit the nail on the head there. I watch anime because I'm tired of what's on TV, but yes, I have seen plenty of bad anime. But I've seen enough good ones to keep me hooked.
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