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Old 16-11-2004, 05:41 PM   #16   [permalink]
Lord_Satorious
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Well, I was basing all my views on episode one alone, so take that for what it's worth. Maybe it'll get better, maybe not. SEED was looking pretty good for a while, but I quickly became dissatisfied once the teen girlfriend problems and angst started to arise every episode. Maybe I should keep up better than I have though.
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Old 16-11-2004, 06:06 PM   #17   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Lord_Satorious
Well, I was basing all my views on episode one alone, so take that for what it's worth. Maybe it'll get better, maybe not. SEED was looking pretty good for a while, but I quickly became dissatisfied once the teen girlfriend problems and angst started to arise every episode. Maybe I should keep up better than I have though.
You really should check out the latest episodes, LS. I think they have a decent amount of potential.
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Old 16-11-2004, 07:19 PM   #18   [permalink]
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The character development this time seems to be very good. Lets face it, Kira sucked. I hated him with a passion. Shin is very interesting, and his latest interaction with Kagali really helps build some character behind his actions.

Kira on the other hand is just a typical cliche Shinji type cry baby. In fact, none of the characters in the original Gundam Seed were very likeable at all. I couldn't identify with any of them. Why should I feel sorry for Kira? He's killing everything in sight just to protect his other cry baby friends? Shin on the other hand, I can easily sympathize with. His family was brutally slaughtered, and when he speaks, you can feel his passion, and his suffering.
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Old 16-11-2004, 08:09 PM   #19   [permalink]
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Wow- guess that roused you up for a reply.

Originally Posted by Lord_Satorious
Think again.

Gundam rehashed in the '90s? First, what Gundam has been released during the 90s? Victory? An original series, and a very good series as well. Then G Gundam. You surely can't call that a rehash of anything. Gundam W wasn't really borrowing from anything either, but like SEED, it sought out a new audience, namely the young, female one--it wasn't all that terrific a series either. Gundam X was nothing special, I'll give that to you.
When did I say that it was only the storyline that was rehashed?? The basic theme is still the same- there is little surprise with the designs and hardly much more in plot. If you were going to be surprised by twists and turns in series like X, Wing or G I'd be amused.

You might consider G not a rehash- but since when did it have to be a direct rehash of gundam?? You should have seen enough other anime series out there that base themselves on tournaments and other super hero feats to know that the series was tapping into a new market with many of the same rehashes that go with the theme. Granted that these were more parody-like and perhaps even copying scenes out of respect like Tarantino's Kill Bill; but it doesn't mean it wasn't in anyway rehashed from several other shows.

Wing not a rehash of something?? Please... that's a narrow view. The themes are still the same- colony drops and a masked man with the same poorly rehashed rhetoric repeated with the same general outcome. If you didn't know what was coming throughout the whole show then you really weren't paying much attention.

I grant you that 0080 and V were fine- to me Turn A is a turn towards the millenium rather than the 90's but the rest still use the tiring notion of colonies, basic cannon fodder designs and little variation of a spin off since the 80's. Compare that to Macross which has lasted almost as long- never once has it been forced to use the same rehashed ideas to repeat themselves over and over again. It expands beyond the original settings and plays out characters of far greater variation in both views and action.

Think again?? Perhaps you should think in a greater scope about what I state instead of assuming what I'm implying.

Quote:
SEED and SEED Destiny squandered whatever new material they brought to the table, with the emphasis on the complete marketing push and the attempt to recruit a new generation of Gundam fans. Preferably young ones with large wallets to buy up the plethora of new merchandise.
Well since when hasn't Wing brought about a marketing bonanza?? So what if SEED is doing the same- it's been roughly 10 years since Wing reared its ugly head and showed the marketing potential of shows just aiming to please kids with merchandise to the world. It's been done before in America and Japan years before SEED came to be and you're only complaining about it now because they've refined it better??

With the success of Wing, SEED and Destiny is following suite to incorporate the next range of little children to fuel their market. It's not like the UC fans of old will keep their pockets lined for very long. Many of them have long since moved to more important things than to shill out money to a franchise that really doesn't care to expand on their beloved old series/universe anymore.

I have my problems with SEED and Destiny- but you don't see me moaning about it to no end. There's enough pathetic angst from a variety of characters to almost rival Wu Fei's contradicting and moronic statements and gestures. It also doesn't mean you don't look at the bigger picture of what the franchise is after- especially as SEED is the most successful AU there's bound to be a repeat of the same forumla to attempt to emulate the same successful ratings and squeeze the series for all it's worth.

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And you can't equate veteran Gundam fans as being dinosaurs. Veteran Gundam fans are still the _majority_ (in Japan), and thus unlike the dinosaurs we're not extinct.
Why shouldn't I??

I place most fans of shows that have exceeded 10 years as dinosaurs/veterans. Macross, Gundam, FSS and other such series that have fans who have long exceeded their childhood memories have realistically gone beyond the initial market aim of the series. Though in essence FSS is more aimed towards an older generation rather than the new with their model designs.

True that the majority of fans in Japan of sci-fi are Gundam based, but take away the newer generations of the last 5-10 years and you realise that this trend would quickly disappear in the next 10 or so years through other walks of life. It has been the fans of newer series that have carried Gundam. UC might have its fans but it's the newer series that grabs the potiential gundam fan first before they delve deeper into older classics.

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It's not a fair comparison. I would hope Gundam veterans still even have some pull, but as long as the new Gundam generation appears in droves pluck the numerous model kits that will be released in conjuction with SEED Destiny, then maybe there's little market for the longtime fans who already own it all.
You hope- as I'm sure many of us here do also. But in the greater scheme of things, most series are going to follow a newer fan base to prop themselves up in the long run. Going back to fans of old is still going to occur- but don't expect the pull since the success of SEED. The potiental quick buck is probably going to supersede the desire of a new direction from an old series- complaining about it isn't going to do all too much. It's more productive to roll with the punches and take stock of the bigger picture.

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I don't see how I was being very general in my complaints, especially how they could apply to Gundam of the 1980s--with Tomino at the helm for the greater part. And I wouldn't doubt Gundam as a franchise, it's far bigger than Macross, but why mention Macross at all? Yeah, Macross is more technically inclined than Gundam. But that's hardly indicative of a superior series. Not that I don't like Macross, but I'm not making the argument Macross sucks because VOTOMS is more realistic.
Since when did I say Gundam sucked??

A newer Skyline is still superior a car than the previous make- but does that make the older one crap?? Will you no longer buy the older version given the chance to buy it at a reasonable price because you've heard they've just made a newer series yesterday??

It isn't only about technicals but also the themes shown. I mention Macross due to its similar lasting power it has over the likes of VOTOMS and similar series that were with them in the 80's and are have disappeared to obsucrity at the present. In my opinion it is clearly the superior series on several levels. It doesn't have to rehash the same scenes like colony drops and masked men to get its point accross- Mankind isn't always needed to be in danger of mass destruction to make a good story. The variety of situations and characters gives the series a far more epic feel without losing the viewer's empathy with characters. Successive series since the oringal have always brought a breath of fresh air with new ideas. For the lack of series compared to Gundam it certainly has more quality.

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And do you think you could leave the intellectually superior attitude and personal attacks out for once?


I was banking on this style of post to possibly get a response. Guess it worked- seeing as you've failed to respond to posts prior to mine. Also promotes more activity in the forum.
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Old 16-11-2004, 08:17 PM   #20   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Lord_Satorious
And do you think you could leave the intellectually superior attitude and personal attacks out for once?
Personally I agree with this quote. What I don't like about you Valkyrie is how you always and I mean always in pretty much every post have to bash Gundam Wing, even in topics that has got nothing to do with Wing. Yes, You hate it, we get it. There are people who do like it (like me for one) and would not appreciate having to talk about something different and then seeing a pointless bash at his/her fav series for no reason.
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Old 17-11-2004, 06:46 AM   #21   [permalink]
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Quote:
Personally I agree with this quote. What I don't like about you Valkyrie is how you always and I mean always in pretty much every post have to bash Gundam Wing, even in topics that has got nothing to do with Wing. Yes, You hate it, we get it. There are people who do like it (like me for one) and would not appreciate having to talk about something different and then seeing a pointless bash at his/her fav series for no reason.
Now this is funny. You say agree with LS's specific statement but in reality elaborate on nothing about what he's been on about. He wasn't harping on my stance on Wing- far from it: perhaps you should learn how to quote in context.

While we're on about contradicting statements let's see how we can manage to learn a bit about "always and I mean always" and your "pretty much every post" nonesense. Be more coherent and you might have something.

As for your Wing issue- just as LS can state his stance on SEED and Destiny I will continue to do so for series and shows I feel are lacking. Whether you like it or not is your problem. I do not stop you from liking your shows: have I been offensive to Weslo about my opinion of Destiny?? Have we had confrontations?? Hardly. I don't impose on your statements unless they're patently false and you try to state them as fact. Funny how you say I hate Wing yet I answer in appropriate places- did the Sanq kingdom thread stated my apparent hate of Wing??
If you fail to be able to understand context and the reasons behind them, than your foolishness is not my responsibility. In the greater scheme of things Wing is lacking and if I feel it's appropriate in the context of what I'm saying, I'll put it in. Get over it- you don't see me telling you to stop saying "I love Wing!!"
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Old 17-11-2004, 08:22 AM   #22   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Valkyrie
Now this is funny. You say agree with LS's specific statement but in reality elaborate on nothing about what he's been on about. He wasn't harping on my stance on Wing- far from it: perhaps you should learn how to quote in context.

While we're on about contradicting statements let's see how we can manage to learn a bit about "always and I mean always" and your "pretty much every post" nonesense. Be more coherent and you might have something.

As for your Wing issue- just as LS can state his stance on SEED and Destiny I will continue to do so for series and shows I feel are lacking. Whether you like it or not is your problem. I do not stop you from liking your shows: have I been offensive to Weslo about my opinion of Destiny?? Have we had confrontations?? Hardly. I don't impose on your statements unless they're patently false and you try to state them as fact. Funny how you say I hate Wing yet I answer in appropriate places- did the Sanq kingdom thread stated my apparent hate of Wing??
If you fail to be able to understand context and the reasons behind them, than your foolishness is not my responsibility. In the greater scheme of things Wing is lacking and if I feel it's appropriate in the context of what I'm saying, I'll put it in. Get over it- you don't see me telling you to stop saying "I love Wing!!"
I'll admit I should have been more coherent in my last post.

"I do not stop you from liking your shows"

But you do bash them needlessly in topics about them. See the Sanc Kingdom example.

"did the Sanq kingdom thread stated my apparent hate of Wing??"

Your quote in that topic:

"Lt Amada and BlackAngel are correct- BK is way off the mark as usual. The architecture and clothing style showin is of Western Europe decent of which France and the Netherlands would be favourite contenders of deciding where the country is located. I'm yet to see any map that openly states where the kingdom is. Not that it matters- Gundam Wing is a bit of a joke anyway."

Now was it really neccessary to add that last sentence? Was it appropriate? The topic creator was asking about the Sanc Kingdom and not for opinions on Wing. And even if that statement doesn't show your hatred of Wing, it was still a bash.

Now here's a quote from the Gundam SEED Destiny thread (the other one):

"But it's ony 4 episodes in so I'll give it more to time to pan out- I still give most series the benefit of the doubt. But chances are this series is probably going to rank low- hopefully not as low as Wing."

Now here's a thread that had absolutly nothing to do with Wing and once again your basher sense tingled and you felt the need to put down Wing.

Now here's the thing. I respect your opinions (even though you probably don't respect mine). In the end it's all a matter of opinion. You find it lacking. I don't. And other people don't too. We have a difference of opinion. If you don't like Wing, then that's fine with me but could you at the very least try not to make people who like Wing uncomfortable here by making uneccessary bashes every now and then?



"you don't see me telling you to stop saying "I love Wing!!" "

That's because I don't state it as much as you bash it.
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Old 17-11-2004, 08:49 PM   #23   [permalink]
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Ahh yes... the Sanq thread that I gained your attention to- let's look at that statement.

Why do I think Wing is a joke?? Especially when revolving around Sanq kingdom??

You already know my stance with Wu Fei and his contradicting and hyporcritical nature. But let's take a look at Zechs- another masked man wonder who one minute decides to get revenge on the people responsible for the loss of Sanq kingdom and his loved ones to deciding to rid the world of human life on Earth and abandon his original convictions despite claiming to love his sister to then having a sudden change of heart in Endless Waltz. The inconsistencies are amusing and certainly is a joke- for all the talk of these characters that link themselves to the Sanq kingdom- little if anything is known about the place. The lack of originality and proper convincing direction one wonders whether or not the producers were in an indecisive tailspin of their own.

Quote:
Now here's a quote from the Gundam SEED Destiny thread (the other one):

"But it's ony 4 episodes in so I'll give it more to time to pan out- I still give most series the benefit of the doubt. But chances are this series is probably going to rank low- hopefully not as low as Wing."

Now here's a thread that had absolutly nothing to do with Wing and once again your basher sense tingled and you felt the need to put down Wing.
Pfft- it made sense that I put Wing whether you like it or not. I stated what I felt that Destiny would rank low and stated my hope that it won't go as low as Wing. If you're so sensitive as to get roused from that then you really need to learn a bit of flexibility and understanding. Get over it. Perhaps you need to get a lifestyle change that doesn't revolve around being so sensitive when your precious series doesn't get the praise you think is expected.

Quote:
Now here's the thing. I respect your opinions (even though you probably don't respect mine). In the end it's all a matter of opinion. You find it lacking. I don't. And other people don't too. We have a difference of opinion. If you don't like Wing, then that's fine with me but could you at the very least try not to make people who like Wing uncomfortable here by making uneccessary bashes every now and then?
I don't see how uncomfortable one gets- LS states his abject hatred of SEED and its new counterpart and you don't see anyone here feeling so uncomfortable about his stance as you make your position to be. I'm not forcing you to abandon your precious series just because I feel it doesn't meet my criteria. If you don't the inner strength to carry through your own convictions then there's little I can do for you.

Quote:
That's because I don't state it as much as you bash it.
It really doesn't matter if you post more or less about the issue. I've clearly shown that I have more or less posted appropriately in the threads provided. I've stated my distaste of many aspects of SEED and Destiny- but you don't see any complaints. You need to learn to live with the fact that I will have more points against Wing than SEED- after all, Wing has been around for 10 or so years. Call it needless bashing if you will- but unless you can actually refute my statements and reasons behind what I say, there isn't much to be said and done other than keeping the status quo because clearly you can't attain a proper response behind my points presented.
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Old 22-06-2005, 09:13 AM   #24   [permalink]
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i havent seen all of seed ( last 5 episodes...why wade through the crap when we can get right to the good stuff ) and i only seen the intro for Destiny. Mind you im not a huge gundam fan...i only knew about the series or ...should i say the different series using the name " gundam" in the title from the various gundam model kits. I bought kits for wing 3 yrs before i knew what a gundam was..but thats not the issue here

the issue is ...im gona see it when i can get my hands on it ..and yes i do rember the Victory gundam...but only from the models...btw how ya doin Valkurie lol..

But the question i ask all of you is ..isnt most of anime becoming redundant..the same story lines, although altered, are being used over and over again so its not surpising for a new series to take bits and peices from the old ones. sometimes it comes out good ...some times it comes out like over done steak, tough and hard to swallow.

and since we are on the topic of redundance has anyone seen the preview or heard about Fafner...looks like the plot from Eva mixed with the setting from Raxaphon(sp.) with the art from ..the people who did gundam seed ? ...wonder how this anime will be judged..hmm...

well enough of my rantings...peace
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Old 23-06-2005, 12:15 AM   #25   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Steathassasn
i havent seen all of seed ( last 5 episodes...why wade through the crap when we can get right to the good stuff ) and i only seen the intro for Destiny. Mind you im not a huge gundam fan...i only knew about the series or ...should i say the different series using the name " gundam" in the title from the various gundam model kits. I bought kits for wing 3 yrs before i knew what a gundam was..but thats not the issue here

the issue is ...im gona see it when i can get my hands on it ..and yes i do rember the Victory gundam...but only from the models...btw how ya doin Valkurie lol..

But the question i ask all of you is ..isnt most of anime becoming redundant..the same story lines, although altered, are being used over and over again so its not surpising for a new series to take bits and peices from the old ones. sometimes it comes out good ...some times it comes out like over done steak, tough and hard to swallow.

and since we are on the topic of redundance has anyone seen the preview or heard about Fafner...looks like the plot from Eva mixed with the setting from Raxaphon(sp.) with the art from ..the people who did gundam seed ? ...wonder how this anime will be judged..hmm...

well enough of my rantings...peace
Victory Gundam? That hasn't been released in the US at all, unless you have VHS fansubs...

As far as your point is concerned, I don't think anime is becoming redundant, however if you look at things in a cynical light, there is no such thing as an original story. :/
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Old 23-06-2005, 09:14 AM   #26   [permalink]
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Your right Victory GUndam wasnt released in its animated form here ..but man ..there were alot of Gundam V model kits lol...the only imported gundam that i have seen is the first 4 episodes of Gundam X ....great series ...the fact that the uber weapon can only be fired at night is halarious ..

and yeah there isnt a such thing as a original story but a man can dream cant he ...

btw...three of the characters from Fafner look like they came directly from Gundam Seed....at this rate we should stop trying to make orginal characters and start treating the charactes as movie stars ..lol

Athren Zolla as Dolimite lol...
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Old 29-06-2005, 07:34 PM   #27   [permalink]
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s-CRY-ed too. It's all thanks to Hisashi Hirai's inability to draw unique faces...
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Old 30-06-2005, 09:17 PM   #28   [permalink]
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If faces were the only unoriginal thing in Destiny, that would be fine.
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Old 04-07-2005, 01:36 AM   #29   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by DarkMagician
Your quote in that topic:

"Lt Amada and BlackAngel are correct- BK is way off the mark as usual. The architecture and clothing style showin is of Western Europe decent of which France and the Netherlands would be favourite contenders of deciding where the country is located. I'm yet to see any map that openly states where the kingdom is. Not that it matters- Gundam Wing is a bit of a joke anyway."

What the hell? I never made an argument over the Sanc Kingdom or Gundam Wing's architecture and clothing style... What was this made up from?
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Old 14-07-2005, 06:57 PM   #30   [permalink]
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Valkyrie doesn't have an intellectual superior attitude, he is intellectually superior!

As for my thoughts on SEED Destiny, I have only one: Skirts in space = win.
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