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Old 08-05-2002, 08:30 PM   #1   [permalink]
Sergeant Wittmann
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Angry Why is Gasaraki so fake?

I'm serious, anyone who sees the military action in this show that knows anything about the military will either laugh his head off or fume.
Firstly, what was with that attack on Belgistan's capital? They sent a tank thrust against it! No serious commander would ever in a million years even DREAM of sending a tank column into a city without scouring the whole place with infantry and eliminating all enemies. Tactical doctrine states that such moves are suicidal, it's been proved time and again on the battlefield. People in the show made a huge deal out of the fact that the force was destroyed by TAs but infantry with rocket launchers or even satchel charges could've done the same. AND WHY DON'T THOSE DAMNED TAS SHOW UP ON NIGHT VISION????? Are they invisible? Do they have some sort of stealth capability? Is this ever even explained?
Because that's the only way that they could've avoided detection from all of the aircraft that were supporting the attack force in episode three. What, there was no air support like a REAL MILITARY would have? That's not very realistic now is it? And of course the enemy TAs had no trouble hitting the tanks who were in that highly realistic formation where they were all bunched together like cars in a parking lot. What? Tanks would never make such a formation? Well whoda thunk it?!
Well, this is what happens when someone ignores realism and throws in some token, phoney combat scenes to appease the masses. The fighting in Gasaraki is almost Rambo-esque! Racism also played a role. The Japanese still cannot believe that they lost to foreign barbarians like the Americans and so they sometimes throw scenes into anime where Americans either look stupid and inept, are blown to ----, or both. Kaiji Kawaguchi based his entire career thanks on this. I'd write about the "test" from episode 2 but I'm too pissed right now.
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Old 08-05-2002, 08:49 PM   #2   [permalink]
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I have this odd feeling that the director and writer of the show wasn't a military commander. Call me crazy...
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Old 09-05-2002, 04:53 PM   #3   [permalink]
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Steven Spileberg wasn't one either but at least he had the decency to check with professionals to verify the details in "Saving Private Ryan". Good characters and plot are a big part of what makes a thing like an anime or a movie great, but the details are also important.
The fact that the warfighting which is such an integral part of those first few episodes is handled so poorly shows me that the producers just wanted to get the project over with and didn't care that much about whether it was as good as possible. This impression may not be correct but that's what happens when someone slacks.
In conclusion, if something plays a crucial role in the plot, and it's done poorly, it has the potential to ruin the whole thing.

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Old 11-05-2002, 03:20 PM   #4   [permalink]
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So, you're pretty much saying the military part of the story ruined all of the series?

Quote:

Racism also played a role. The Japanese still cannot believe that they lost to foreign barbarians like the Americans and so they sometimes throw scenes into anime where Americans either look stupid and inept, are blown to ----, or both.
The part I found sad when watching Gasaraki is that Americans often act like they did in Gasaraki. This is not racism, or about making us look stupid because they lost a war with us decades ago. This is a matter of opinion, a matter of how other people perceive our actions. America does have a superiority complex, we view ourselves as having a better society and being more important than everyone else. Unfortunatly some people refuse to recognise this or brush it off as racism or jealousy of another country.
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Old 11-05-2002, 08:21 PM   #5   [permalink]
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If you think about it we are the most important country in the world. As a world superpower, we have the strongest economy and military. And our system of government is a damned good one too. Checks and balances, division of power, the constitution, and over 225 years of stability. How often have radical groups overthrown the government? How often has the military launched a coup de'tat? Americans have a lot to be proud of.

As to whether I think the "military" action in Gasaraki ruined it, I'm not sure yet. Everything else is pretty good, except for some voices in the dub (the dictator of Belgistan sounds like Fat Bastard). But the lack of realism makes it very difficult for me to like. And by Americans really acting the way they do in Gasaraki, do you mean militarily inept?
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Old 30-05-2002, 07:47 PM   #6   [permalink]
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Re: Why is Gasaraki so fake?

Quote:
Originally posted by Sergeant Wittmann
I'm serious, anyone who sees the military action in this show that knows anything about the military will either laugh his head off or fume.
Firstly, what was with that attack on Belgistan's capital? They sent a tank thrust against it! No serious commander would ever in a million years even DREAM of sending a tank column into a city without scouring the whole place with infantry and eliminating all enemies. Tactical doctrine states that such moves are suicidal, it's been proved time and again on the battlefield. People in the show made a huge deal out of the fact that the force was destroyed by TAs but infantry with rocket launchers or even satchel charges could've done the same. AND WHY DON'T THOSE DAMNED TAS SHOW UP ON NIGHT VISION????? Are they invisible? Do they have some sort of stealth capability? Is this ever even explained?
Because that's the only way that they could've avoided detection from all of the aircraft that were supporting the attack force in episode three. What, there was no air support like a REAL MILITARY would have? That's not very realistic now is it? And of course the enemy TAs had no trouble hitting the tanks who were in that highly realistic formation where they were all bunched together like cars in a parking lot. What? Tanks would never make such a formation? Well whoda thunk it?!
Well, this is what happens when someone ignores realism and throws in some token, phoney combat scenes to appease the masses. The fighting in Gasaraki is almost Rambo-esque! Racism also played a role. The Japanese still cannot believe that they lost to foreign barbarians like the Americans and so they sometimes throw scenes into anime where Americans either look stupid and inept, are blown to ----, or both. Kaiji Kawaguchi based his entire career thanks on this. I'd write about the "test" from episode 2 but I'm too pissed right now.


I agree with you on the most part. Gasaraki may seem realistic in some aspects, but the people who made it weren't exactly specialists in military doctorine (not that I am mind you). However, you have to admit, the Gasaraki handles the concept of mecha much better than other anime series.

Nonetheless, it was a TV show, and not a documentary on the real life applications of a modern mecha on the battlefield. You gotta give the guys a some leeway. Allthough a couple of exploding mecha would have been more interesting and more realistic at the same time.

Its also not as if American entertainment isn't chuck full of psuedo-scientific and wanna be technical jargon as well as loads of racial stereotypes.

I don't ever remember a US tank column actually ENTERING a city. I thiuk there was one time when the Japanese were reviewing a video footage by a chopper, where a group of TAs took out some AVFs and and later, the chopper in a city, but I don't know if they were American in orgin..... I guess they were.

Later on where the fakes totally demolished that group of APCs and tanks, it should be noted that they hadn't actually entered the city. They were waiting a distance, and getting ready to move in when the attack occured. Air support had been bombing the city, or doing something I guess. Does air support start attacking the enemy when they're that close to friendly uits?

Later on where the TAs wiped out that tank column, it should be noted that that was to prove the effectiveness of TAs against other armored vehicles. If the tanks had been accompanied by infantry, I would believe the TAs wouldn't have gone in without assistance as well. I don't know whether or not tanks ever line up in a row, but they obviously weren't expecting to even see the enemy, let alone be attacked at the time.


the fact that the tanks were deployed APCs probably indicated that they were going to release some infantry at a later point to assist the armored vehicles into the city.

The fact that the mecha couldn't be seen at first could probably be attributed to all that dust they kicked up before launching the missiles, which didn't travel in a straight arc, but seemed to come from behind the sand dunes, meaning the mecha probably used it as cover.

the real advantage of the mecha in the series doesn't lie totally in their abilities. They have that control vehicle that takes vast ammounts of info and data from sonar units, UAVs, and other sensors on the battlefield, so they basically know where the enemy is at ALL times and can coordinate their attacks accordingly. That's their secret: total overview of the combat area.

I bet if you took that command vehicle out, those TAs wouldn't be nearly as effective in urban combat. I think its the ammount of battlefield intelligence that the Japanese had, in addition to the versatility and advanced technology (armor at least) of the TAs that made them effective.
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Old 30-05-2002, 08:14 PM   #7   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sergeant Wittmann
Steven Spileberg wasn't one either but at least he had the decency to check with professionals to verify the details in "Saving Private Ryan". Good characters and plot are a big part of what makes a thing like an anime or a movie great, but the details are also important.
The fact that the warfighting which is such an integral part of those first few episodes is handled so poorly shows me that the producers just wanted to get the project over with and didn't care that much about whether it was as good as possible. This impression may not be correct but that's what happens when someone slacks.
In conclusion, if something plays a crucial role in the plot, and it's done poorly, it has the potential to ruin the whole thing.


Of course, there were quite ALOt of scientific innacuracies in Jurassic Park and the Lost World, despite the fact that Spielberg had assistance from SEVERAL of the world's leading paleontologists.

There were many isntances where he said, "Make the dinosaur this big, fast, or give it this ability", just to make the movie entertaining.

The speed, intelligence, and size of the velociraptors. The frill, venom spoitting ability, and size of the dliophosaurus. The idea that a tyrannosaurs can only see you if you're moving. The size of the pachycephelasaurs. the hunting behavior of the Procompsagnathids. The chewing brachiosaur. All of these and many more concepts were contrary to evidence provided by the fossil record.

I spent the whole movie ranting about how unrealistic it was (at leat when I wasn't screaming my head off), but I had to remind myself that it wasn't a documentary. It was entertainment for people who didn't give a real flip either way.
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Old 02-06-2002, 12:27 PM   #8   [permalink]
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I haven't read up on the latest theories of paeleontology so I can't comment on what you said about Jurassic Park, but I will comment on the military.
First, I should discuss the use of tanks in battle. My history teacher, a retired army captain with combat experience, told me that the worst thing you could do with tanks is to move them into a hostile city. Tanks are made for fighting out in the open where their mobility will give them the advantage, not in cramped urban confines where troops could snipe at them with anti-tank weapons from buildings, alleyways, and even sewers. In the footage of that first assault, all we see are tanks. Myths about American military ineptitude to the side, practically everyone in the service (except maybe for sailors) knows the extreme folly of sending armor into urbanized terrain. And yes, it was mentioned several times that these were Americans.
Secondly, the TAs had UAVs and other things, but so does everyone else; especially America. Predator drones were used in the Kosovo war for reconnaissance and observation, as well as in Afghanistan. Some of their predecessors were used in Iraq but thye technology was still in its infancy and so they weren't that effective. We also have satellites, high-tech command and control units, special forces, and probably even things that we don't know about. The American forces would've had the same battlefield intelligence as TAs.
Thirdly, the tank unit waiting to enter the city. First of all, I've already mentioned the tremendous folly of entering cities with armor so I won't harp on that again. I'll harp on the lack of support instead. Every unit that enters combat, no matter what the specialty is, has access to either artillery, air, or armor support via radio.
The unit in question had none of these. Where were the gunship helicopters to knock out the TAs with hellfire missiles? What abut strike planes dropping bombs? Or artillery bombardents? In answer to your question, air support can be called in very close to friendly forces because of the accuracy of the pilots and their ground coordinators.
While we're at it, I should also mention the formation of the vehicles in question. You'll notice that they're all bunched up in a very close formation. Looks nice in parades, but a terrible practice in combat since one explosive could take out a number of units. They would be spread out more. They would also have hummvees or Bradleys on the flanks and perimeter as well as helicopters for security. They would've had LAVs if they were Marines. But none of these realistic things occurred. Instead, the tanks and IFVs huddled together like one big morsel of mecha-food and got eaten.
I know that there are racial stereotypes in American TV, it's just so galling to see the Japanese, who were such animals during World War II, take a superior stance when dealing with America and Americans. Sure, they managed to rape 20,000 women and kill 200,000 to 300,000 people in a six-week period in Nanking, and sure, they tested biological warfare agents on live human guinea pigs and became the first country to use modern biological warfare in anger; but America's still the badguy because we dropped nuclear bombs on them that wound up killing fewer people than a conventional invasion would've. Not to mention that we rebuilt their country after the war using billions of our taxpayer dollars and played a major role in their defense during the Cold war. Why am I the only one who cares that the stance taken in some anime is patent racism against the American people?
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Old 18-06-2002, 05:27 PM   #9   [permalink]
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Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Fuyutsuki
So, you're pretty much saying the military part of the story ruined all of the series?



The part I found sad when watching Gasaraki is that Americans often act like they did in Gasaraki. This is not racism, or about making us look stupid because they lost a war with us decades ago. This is a matter of opinion, a matter of how other people perceive our actions. America does have a superiority complex, we view ourselves as having a better society and being more important than everyone else. Unfortunatly some people refuse to recognise this or brush it off as racism or jealousy of another country.
Well, yes, as with the Juan the alien american joke, or like the guy who asked me (when I was in San Francisco) if I could see the moon in the southern latitudes of Argentina. Or worst, once I was asked by an american if in my country there were still Indian Raids where they took over cities to loot and burn. I had to tell him yes, and that I was in the states escaping those savages.
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Old 19-06-2002, 05:17 AM   #10   [permalink]
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Old 20-06-2002, 04:58 PM   #11   [permalink]
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Originally posted by AchtungAffen


Well, yes, as with the Juan the alien american joke, or like the guy who asked me (when I was in San Francisco) if I could see the moon in the southern latitudes of Argentina. Or worst, once I was asked by an american if in my country there were still Indian Raids where they took over cities to loot and burn. I had to tell him yes, and that I was in the states escaping those savages.

Ha ha ha! I hope you don't think we're all so dense. Stupidity transcends nationality, religious extremism being the best proof of this. I'm sure some Argentines think that eagles dive underwater like penguins. I will admit, though, that American public education is on the rocks; primarily because locally elected school boards suck. And so does Gasaraki.

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Old 20-06-2002, 06:32 PM   #12   [permalink]
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Oh don't worry. At the beginning I hadn't a good image of Americans until I started learning classical guitar and met an American who lives here who dirtied his hands working in vineyards down in Mendoza, did every kind of thing, and even learnt spanish from zero, besides of being a nice guy. I commited the crime of generalizing before. But I bet you there are more monkey-minded people here than in the states. The evidence of this is the one I cannot name (Minim I shall call him) and all his offspring. You're lucky you have schoolboards. Our schools don't even have lockers (only those private expensive ones). And let's don't speak about colleges. There is no notion of what a campus is here.
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Old 26-06-2002, 02:30 PM   #13   [permalink]
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I take it "Minim" is a politician of some sort.
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Old 26-06-2002, 04:50 PM   #14   [permalink]
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try changing the vowels (the same one for the 2 places) and look in the internet, you may get him. But his name is bad luck, for example, there was a famous speed-boat racer here. He took the unnamable for a ride, and the next race, he lost his arm. That's just one of all the bad luck things the unnamable has caused.
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Old 26-06-2002, 11:51 PM   #15   [permalink]
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I have to agree that Gasaraki is not even close to the real thing. I still get a laught when they said the "US Royal Air Force". Another thing that they got wrong was the rank. They name a three star general a colonel. A three star general will never go into a combat zone. They are too important to be in the front line. God forbid they get capture by the enemy.

You will never see tanks pack so close to each other as we seen in Gasaraki. They will get rape by artillery or air power. In combat operation, tanks separated from each other by 500 to 1000 meters.

Tanks are best use in wide open space where they can take advantage of their speed and armor.

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