Evangelion: Tactical effectiveness of the pilots and their commanders

bloodblade · 17-04-2001, 04:48 PM

Eva is most likely over. In my opinion, there was not enough intense combat to make solid opinions of the pilot's fighting skills. Their commander's decision-making skills, however, are slightly easier, for the most part.

This is on-the fly. Expect more later....

Commanders:

Katsuragi Misato: Innovative, thinks quickly, tries to keep as much running as smoothly and swiftly as possible.

Ikari Gendo: Ruthless, calculating. Will use any means at hand to destroy target, regardless of consequences.

Auska: In the manga she has some martial arts training, and we do see her kick the crap out of the MPs. Able to quickly formulate strategy when command communications are impossible, and takes the most painful side of her plans when possible. Her arrogance. however, make her hard to work with in combat situations, and has repeatedly ignored orders.

Rei: Suicidal, especially when another's life is in immediate danger. Obeys commands unquestioningly. Does not seem to be skilled at close-quarter combat.

Shinji: Does not obey many orders given to him. Seems most effective when not in control of it. (Ie. beserk Eva.) Some fighting skills, not really effective unless extremely agitated. Main advantage is his eva's beserk state, and the eventual incorporation of the S2 engine.

Own thoughts, questions, comments, criticisms wanted.

More later, I think...

TradeMark · 17-04-2001, 05:42 PM

Really if you think aboot it (hehe poking fun at canadians!) the best tactical warrior is Yui, she destroys pretty much everything. Asuka is in my opinion the only person with actual talent of the living.

~~bbc0~~ · 17-04-2001, 05:44 PM

can you tell me again....what your argument it about

TradeMark · 17-04-2001, 05:52 PM

He isn't conflicting with anything, he's attempting to expand your mind with thought there slugger- sparking conversation.

------------
You ever see a man say good bye to his shoes before?
hehe once
Scorpio-Homer 3f23 You only move twice
GDC

Timon · 17-04-2001, 07:13 PM

I think Gendo trusts in his plans too much. As in, he acts all calm like he knows the outcome will be in his favour. With Shinji and Sachiel he completely relied on the hope that 01 would go beserk. What if Sachiel would have grabed 01 by the neck and ripped its head off? That was a pretty risky gamble imo. He doesn't realy seem to assume command that often, but just let others handle the situation knowing that it'll turn out good.

I think ep 16 is the best evidence of the commanding peoples carelessness, or atleast here it has the greatest reprecussions. Some angel appears outa nowhere, they know nothing of its abilities or what it could do, and they send in their precious few Eva's to fight it. Wouldn't it make more sense to test it with more expendable things first? Like with Ramiel? (of course after 01 nearly got a huge hole through it).

But besides that you're right :B

raanefea · 17-04-2001, 11:27 PM

Well, if Shinji didn't just decide to trust the Script to make him win, he would have withdrawn with the others. After all, Asuka got away when the Angel started slurping down the landscape

So they were justified. As for more expendable things, I ask you, how could they detect the thing's intent? It just lay there quitely, not bothering a soul, till a tasty snack jumps right in! If it wasn't for Shinji's original mothods of scouting, no one would ever know till it slithered up to GeoFront front door and sucked it in!

Lordbryn · 18-04-2001, 02:41 AM

Here's my question, why 'test' out an angel with anything less than an evangelion. The subject of money and NERV's budget is brought up more than a couple times, but how often do we see millions and millions of dollars wasted by conventional military attacking angels? They KNOW it isn't going to work, and anything less than an N2 mine isn't even going to slow it down, so why waste the time, money, and firepower when it won't do any good.

evasoul · 18-04-2001, 03:59 AM

probably just for show that the government is indeed doing something although useless maybe just to show they exist... even though they do more damage to the city than the angel with their n2 mines...

yes there are no conclusive evidences as to which pilot is better but i favor more to asuka being the better pilot seing her kick the mp evas was a joy... shinji may have the most powerful eva but he didn't even want to pilot it in the first place much less fight with it... asuka's determination gives her the upper hand although berserk yui gets the job done for shinji... rei's piloting is ok but her objective in the series goes way beyond her piloting an eva so maybe gendo let's her pilot to keep her in check for his future plans...

gendo is pretty much calm and cool maybe to hide his emotions and to let everyone know that he is in control although he keeps on letting fuyutski to handle things... misato maybe is a little careless when it comes to commanding ex. she uses her intuition to determine where the 10th angel will land... but they always turn out ok.

Drizzten · 18-04-2001, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bloodblade
Katsuragi Misato: Innovative, thinks quickly, tries to keep as much running as smoothly and swiftly as possible.

Ikari Gendo: Ruthless, calculating. Will use any means at hand to destroy target, regardless of consequences.

I agree this your assessment. Misato has pretty broad authority to do what she feels is necessary. Gendo is gone so much that she has to be, and she fills the role well. Her only failings would be when the pilots don't measure up to the challenge.

Gendo has a plan and doesn't let anything screw with that plan. You see him panic only once, and that was when Rei charged Zeruel with the N2. He's inflexible in his will, and that's what gives him his strength.

Satoru · 18-04-2001, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TradeMark
...the best tactical warrior is Yui, she destroys pretty much everything. Asuka is in my opinion the only person with actual talent of the living.

I don't think there was any tactics behind eva-01 berserks. I mean, Yui isn't in the control of the Eva actions (or do you really believe that that sweet lady we see in ep. 21 is capable of doing such things?).

The only thing she does is to let the Eva beast free. Then the Eva acts by instinct and does all those crazy moves and stuff.

As for the pilots...
Yes, Asuka kicks ass! There's no doubt she is the best fighter. She was trained to do it since she was a little child, so it's reasonable to expect her to be good at it.
Rei was probably trained as well (maybe not as much as Asuka, as Asuka's Eva which is the one for combat purposes), but she is a tactics perfection when it comes to obeying orders. However, she lacks the fighting spirit and intensity.
Shinji. Well, he wasn't trained at all in the beggining of the series. He doesn't wish to pilot. Enough said, I guess.

TradeMark · 18-04-2001, 03:09 PM

I believe Yui does have some control, after all it is her beserk that does the damamge, not the eva's, it is her, being the mother, maternal instinct to protect her young that drive the eva against the angels in the beserk mode. We see that the mother can effect the eva's movements supported when the unit 02 runs out of energy vs the MP's and still is controlled by Asuka, somehow it was moving without power. How? Because Asuka willed it so and her mother allowed it.
BTW by tactical warrior i am going by the saying
The best tactician is one who wins.

Timon · 18-04-2001, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by raanefea As for more expendable things, I ask you, how could they detect the thing's intent? It just lay there quitely, not bothering a soul, till a tasty snack jumps right in! If it wasn't for Shinji's original mothods of scouting, no one would ever know till it slithered up to GeoFront front door and sucked it in!

Quote:

Originally posted by Lordbryn
Here's my question, why 'test' out an angel with anything less than an evangelion. The subject of money and NERV's budget is brought up more than a couple times, but how often do we see millions and millions of dollars wasted by conventional military attacking angels? They KNOW it isn't going to work, and anything less than an N2 mine isn't even going to slow it down, so why waste the time, money, and firepower when it won't do any good.

Ya... good points. But I still think (if it was a real situation) they would test out the angels as much as they could before sending out an Eva. Like with Ramiel again (if only they would have sent the dummy and the mortar out first).

And with Leliel they shoulda gotten like a helicoptor or something to shoot at it first. I mean, they didn't detect an AT field on the angel, so you would thin they would assume it would be completely open to attack. They fire a few shots at it, it starts sucking things in, they realise what their real target is and no one gets sucked up. It was slow moving too, so I don't realy see why they couldn't have thrown a few stones at it first to see what it would do. And everyone knows that an angels only intent is to destroy the human race!

raanefea · 19-04-2001, 02:27 AM

The thing is, I assume they did all that and it just sat there, smirking to itself like Gendo's long-lost twin. Then when an EVA shows up...

Satoru · 19-04-2001, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TradeMark
I believe Yui does have some control, after all it is her beserk that does the damamge, not the eva's, it is her, being the mother, maternal instinct to protect her young that drive the eva against the angels in the beserk mode. We see that the mother can effect the eva's movements supported when the unit 02 runs out of energy vs the MP's and still is controlled by Asuka, somehow it was moving without power. How? Because Asuka willed it so and her mother allowed it.
BTW by tactical warrior i am going by the saying
The best tactician is one who wins.

Yui can have control, yes, of course (like in the first episode, when she gets her hand over Shinji to protect him from the debris). But in the case of berserk, she does not have control over the movements of the Eva (like in the second episode, during the fight with Sachiel).
Why do I think like this? Did you see what the Eva was doing? I really don't think Yui would do such things. I think Yui knows she doesn't have fighting skills and so, instead of taking control over the Eva, he lets it free. She just commands something like: "that is the threat (Sachiel in this case)" and then the Eva acts by instinct, attacking the threat.

TradeMark · 19-04-2001, 05:02 PM

I can only respond to you with a yes and no supporting. Yes, I'm happy we both think Yui has some control, No i don't think it is just base urges of the Eva. I do believe much of it is the Eva(especially after the Zurel fiasco) but i do believe a large part of the attack is due to Yui's goading, she has at least enough control to link her maternal instincts- both primal and of love- to the lilith clone's beastiality, and perhaps even the clones own urge to protect humanity as a part of lilith. If yui had no control, the S2 eva beserk would never have been recaught by Nerv, it had no reason to be.