Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 18-04-2002, 12:41 AM   #1   [permalink]
Shenrezade
Executive Member
 
Shenrezade's Avatar
 
Join Date: 21 Nov 2001
Location: Wandering the fields in se
Posts: 600
(SPOILER!!!) Would Spike have?

DON'T, I REPEAT, DONT READ THIS THREAD IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE ENDING OF COWBOY BEBOP!!!

Is everybody else gone? Good. Okay, here's my question. When Spike and Vicious fought each other at the very end, would Spike have lived if he hadn't gotten so many wounds? I mean, you could see he had about had it when he took that first shot at Vicious. His hand shook, and his vision was blurry. I also think his arm was useless, too. Yet he still beat Vicious, and died because of it. So, If he weren't injured, would the result've been the same?

And this isn't a "boo-hoo, Spiked died, the ending sucked" type of thing, because the ending DID NOT suck. It was actually one of the few animes where I wasn't angry that the main character died. It's merely a "what if" question.
__________________
The ability to do great things....
That is the humans' strength
Shenrezade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2002, 12:54 AM   #2   [permalink]
Drizzten
Ex Moderator V.I.P.
 
Drizzten's Avatar
 
Join Date: 21 Sep 2000
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 13,383
Send a message via AIM to Drizzten
Spike demonstrated over and over that he's a tough guy. Falling out of tall buildings, going out into deep space with little or no protection, getting shot multiple times in multiple episodes, and all while sustaining himself on a minimal diet. Personally, I think he would have survived. I'd write the blurry vision and unsteady hand off as a likely very high heart rate combined with an open gunshot wound...the blood loss must have been bad. The only doubt I have about this is that I don't think he'd make it back to the Swordfish. Someone would need to come get him, and that's only possible if Jet or Faye listened to a police scanner for calls of a shoot-out in the city.
__________________
Magnifisyncopathological, because other people are not your property.
Drizzten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-04-2002, 07:41 AM   #3   [permalink]
Dryden-san
Forum Elite
 
Dryden-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11 Dec 2000
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,865
Drizzten called it pretty well, I think. He could have survived the fight with Vicious. The question is, would he have survived the aftermath? Vicious wasn't the only man in the building out to kill him as Spike's path to the top floor demonstrates. A whole cadre of mafia goons witnessed his last walk down the steps, where he was clearly on the brink of death. If that hadn't been the case, would they have opened fire? It's hard to say. It sounds like some people in the syndicate still wanted Spike as a leader. On the other hand, Vicious did gather enough people to perform his coup and Spike had just shot up half the people in the building. The Redtail and the Bebop weren't in any condition to come pick him up in any case.
__________________
1st Law of Thermodynamics: You can't win.
2nd Law of Thermodynamics: You can't break even.
3rd Law of Thermodynamics: You can't quit.
Dryden-san is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2002, 01:43 PM   #4   [permalink]
Wen?
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 25 Nov 2000
Posts: 156
i marginally agree with Drizzten and Dryden-san in that if Spike hadn't been wounded when fighting Vicious, he would have had the wherewithall to pull through at the end of that fight. in other words, if it had been a fair fight (ie one-on-one combat), i think Spike would have won. of course, as Drizzten pointed out, there would have been the semantics of getting out of the building and back to the Bebop ...

however, where Vicious is concerned, i don't believe a fair fight was at all possible, ever. he seemed to have a really good way of getting people to do most of the dirty work for him. must have been all that charisma he oozed ... so i guess, to make this tidier, my answer would be, "no, Spike wouldn't have survived even if he hadn't been wounded beforehand because there wouldn't have been a situation where he wouldn't have been wounded".

also, thematically speaking, i don't think there was any other way the creators would have ended the series: Spike was gonna have to die. sniff.
Wen? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2002, 07:15 AM   #5   [permalink]
jetalone
Forum Master
 
jetalone's Avatar
 
Join Date: 19 Dec 2000
Location: Sydney, Australia.
Posts: 2,867
Send a message via ICQ to jetalone Send a message via AIM to jetalone
Just a small point: Had Vicious used a gun, Spike would've died a lot sooner. Swords are much, much cooler, though.

I agree with Wen? though, Vicious had hardly broken into a sweat when Spike reached him in the state he was in. If the fight were a clean one on one, Spike would've won.

I'm actually not sure what would've happened if Spike survived... It's entirely feasible that the remaining mafia members would've killed him right then and there, but it's also entirely feasible that they would've let him live. Tough call.
__________________
"Ben touched me very lightly on the shoulder, looked me in the eyes and said, 'What's up?' I said, 'Uh, not much.' Then his hand went down my back a little- more than I was comfortable with. He invited me over to watch movies- I thought. He started, basically, rubbing himself down with baby oil. I was really shocked, I didn't know what to do about it. So, I called up Robert...The rest is history."
-Darren Jessee

P.S. That's Ben Folds, to save me any embarrassment. :heh:

jetalone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2002, 04:20 PM   #6   [permalink]
Shenrezade
Executive Member
 
Shenrezade's Avatar
 
Join Date: 21 Nov 2001
Location: Wandering the fields in se
Posts: 600
Well, I don't know if Vicious is as good a gun handler as Spike. Of course, I'd have to see him use one before I could actually make that call, but that's not the point. The point is that swords are shiny and bad guy material.

Anyway, frankly, I don't see why they would kill him, if he had lived. They were under Vicious' orders to terminate Spike. And with Vicious dead, they would have had no need to. Besides, from what I understand, there would be two factors involved. When someone kills the Syndicate leader, they become the leader of siad Syndicate(I think) and secondly, I think most of them liked Spike and would have rather him be leader of the Syndicate, anyway.
__________________
The ability to do great things....
That is the humans' strength
Shenrezade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2002, 02:01 AM   #7   [permalink]
Gundammi!
Forum Elite
 
Gundammi!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 8 Mar 2001
Location: Between Misato's Melons
Posts: 1,864
No. Spike was destined to die since the beginning. he only way he survived all of those gunshots, falls, exposure to vaccum etc. was through sheer will power. He was running away from Death until he could settle things once and for all with Vicious and Julia. Just like in a tragedy from Shakespeare or Euripides, destiny and fate play a big part in Cowboy Bebop.
__________________
"I'm the woman of your dreams..."

"A woman made entirely of pie!?"
Gundammi! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2002, 11:40 AM   #8   [permalink]
Shenrezade
Executive Member
 
Shenrezade's Avatar
 
Join Date: 21 Nov 2001
Location: Wandering the fields in se
Posts: 600
Good point. I suppose Spike couldn't have gotten away from Vicious. He did say he was the only one who could kill Spike. So I guess that wouldn't be fair to have Vicious say that and not hold true to it.
__________________
The ability to do great things....
That is the humans' strength
Shenrezade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2002, 02:56 PM   #9   [permalink]
Makoto Hyuga
Executive Member
 
Makoto Hyuga's Avatar
 
Join Date: 9 Sep 2000
Location: Florida
Posts: 337
Send a message via AIM to Makoto Hyuga
My take

I am leaning more toward the idea that Spike would have died even if he was never shot once. Like he said (I'm going off the top of my head), "I'm going to find if I'm really alive." He had found and lost the one thing that kept him going. Having died indirectly at the hands of Vicious, Julie was the last thing Spike lived for. And when she died, Spike knew that he had almost nothing left to look forward to in the future. So it seems as if fate decided the destiny of Spike. But that's just my take on it.
__________________
Smooth Spike:smokin:, Member of the Bebop Mafia's Executive Council
Official Thread for the Bebop Mafia

It seems I apologize so much that I'm begining to sound like Shinji.

"My ship works better when I kick it"- Spike Spiegel
Makoto Hyuga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2002, 06:52 AM   #10   [permalink]
Butters
Forum Master
 
Butters's Avatar
 
Join Date: 21 Jun 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,181
Send a message via ICQ to Butters
Quote:
Originally posted by Gundammi!
No. Spike was destined to die since the beginning. he only way he survived all of those gunshots, falls, exposure to vaccum etc. was through sheer will power. He was running away from Death until he could settle things once and for all with Vicious and Julia. Just like in a tragedy from Shakespeare or Euripides, destiny and fate play a big part in Cowboy Bebop.
Yep. Spike, even if he didn't sustain the cut wounds from Vicious, probably would have died after he made sure that Vicious was dead. The only reason he was alive was to exact revenge against Vicious. Once he done that, he probably would have lost his will to live because he no longer had Julia. I guess Jet and Faye just weren't enough for him to keep living.
Butters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2002, 05:56 PM   #11   [permalink]
KtHM
Banned
 
KtHM's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2 Oct 2001
Location: P-Town, fool.
Posts: 3,250
Oh man, I never post in Anime forums.

Anyway. I agree that Spike was destined to die. He was already, in a sense, dead. When Julia died, she took with her the only reason Spike had for living. After all, the past three years had just been him trying to find her. So after Julia was killed, Spike was basically ready to die. But not in a 'mope mope woe is me' sort of way. In a 'Okay, time to die, I think I'll go take Vicious with me' sort of way. So Spike.

I can't quite remember the line from the start. "You will meet a woman and Death" or something like that.
KtHM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2002, 02:02 AM   #12   [permalink]
Shenrezade
Executive Member
 
Shenrezade's Avatar
 
Join Date: 21 Nov 2001
Location: Wandering the fields in se
Posts: 600
OMG!!! Kiva's posted in my pathetic little thread! I feel honored! Now I'm all warm and tingly... No, wait. That's just the tea I spilled....

Well, Kiva's the thread... starter.... girl.... of my favorite thread here at AB, so I am rather flattered she'd post in my little old topic, since she rarely posts in AB. But I'm getting off topic.

Yeah, I suppose he was ready to die, but the question here is whether he would have died if it had just been him and Vicious, with no thirty floors of thugs ready to blow Spike's face off between them.
__________________
The ability to do great things....
That is the humans' strength
Shenrezade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-2002, 09:34 AM   #13   [permalink]
Constantine Dragomirov
Senior Member
 
Constantine Dragomirov's Avatar
 
Join Date: 27 Nov 2000
Location: - Moscow
Posts: 214
Send a message via ICQ to Constantine Dragomirov
Spike and Vicious - both already dead. That's why they cannot be killed by any means. Understanding it perfectly well, they have a similar attitude towards their unlife - that is, they'd rather wake up than continue riding the wheel of time. It is all about Buddhism - Sansara, reincarnation, and the emptiness of soul. Their nirvana is breaking the vicious circle once and for all.

Now if, by some whim of fate, Spike or Vicious would have survived the mutual carnage, they would still die - but of their own volition. Spike would shoot himself, and Vicious would commit seppuku.

Happiness forever -
Ever the slim chance of fate -
Fated to rebirth.
Constantine Dragomirov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-06-2002, 10:06 PM   #14   [permalink]
Hiigaran
Forum Master
 
Hiigaran's Avatar
 
Join Date: 18 Jan 2001
Location: torrent plz kthxbye
Posts: 5,740
Holy mother of god he's back. Heya Constantine!

The moment Spike and Julia share right before her death sums up the outlook fairly well.

"This is a dream. Just a bad dream."

That is the outlook he entered his final fight with, as Constantine said, a very buddhist outlook. It was the way Spike wanted it to end, as KtHM said. It is the way it did end and should have, as I think.
__________________
Anyone who does not form a community with others, or who does not need to because he is self-sufficient, is no part of a city-state - he is either a beast or a god. -Aristotle
Hiigaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2002, 12:21 AM   #15   [permalink]
ACE2001
Forum Master
 
ACE2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: 4 Jul 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,216
Send a message via MSN to ACE2001 Send a message via Yahoo to ACE2001
Well....I don't know. I mean when I have looked at what had Spike gone through to reach his final destination, I can't help but wonder if his will to live although he wanted to die as well kept him somewhat alive until help arrived. Who knows, maybe the syndicate tried to help Spike recover so he could take over or something like that. It just doesn't feel right for me. I believed Spike survived that fight with Vicious.

For example...Spoilers coming ahead!

When Spike fought against Vincent in the Movie, , he survived not only a gun directly to his chest, plus he survived the virus thing if I am speaking correctly. Spike said that he had nothing to live for once Julia died, I don't believe that. He had Faye. I am in denial here but hell he should have survived that fight with Vicious, he's been through a lot worse. If he beat the Mad Pierrot, then what makes Vicious better? I don't know, it seems to me he took the easy way out. A suicide mission so to speak.
ACE2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.