The Souls of Eva-00 and Eva-02

Black_Knight · 23-04-2003, 10:49 PM

http://animeboards.com/t36202/s.html

http://animeboards.com/t38822/s.html

If you've been here long enough, you know where I'm going with this. Why am I doing it? Because this place is dieing, I had a revelation on the crapper and I'm an -------...

Just to recap. The their is a debate over who's soul is in Eva-00.

The first Rei or Naoko...

I think it's Naoko, others think it's cloned soul of the first rei. I'm looking at it logiclly that you cannot clone a soul. Of course this has been brought up many times before, but we need a fresh start. I'll be damned if I'm gonna start digging up corpes

Wing Zaku 0 · 24-04-2003, 01:26 PM

maybe they didnt bury rei 1 they just stuck her in eva cos she was barley alive, and then was absorbed?

she might not have been dead straight away maybe just about to die from suforcation... it is possible.

this isnt crazy talk is it? right? ...RIGHT?

AchtungAffen · 24-04-2003, 05:28 PM

Well, BK, think of the operativity of the Naoko theory. How could anyone, specifically Shinji and Rei synch with Naokos soul? If you can answer that question, the theory would be right. If not...

BTW: From what you draw that conclusion... that Naoko resides in Eva 00?

Mav · 24-04-2003, 06:36 PM

Well, remember that Shinji never succesfully synchs with Unit-00, and Rei is part Angel, and so, like Kaoru, may be able to synch with any Eva as long as it doesn't have a dominant soul.

Indeed, you could see the two Unit-00 "incidents" as the Eva's soul "waking up", and trying to reject an incompatible pilot

My thoughts on the subject of Evas, pilots, and souls:

Ok, we know (or at least can make an educated guess) that
1. An Eva needs a soul in order to function.
2. That soul can be dormant or awake, and possibly various points inbetween. This can affect the Eva's reaction to pilots (for example, Unit-01 rejecting Rei and the dummy plug).

So, my (half-assed, made up on the spot) theory is that if an Eva's soul is awake/dominant, only the child of the soul "donor" will be able to synch with it, but conversely, if the soul isn't awake, then it is possible, if a little unlikely, for another child to pilot it. Rei and Kaoru have a better chance to do this, because they are part Angel.

So, Unit-00 needed a soul, Gendo needed the inconvenient Naoko out of the way. Kill two birds with one stone...

Wing Zaku 0 · 24-04-2003, 06:45 PM

shinji says this smells like rei so maybe that reis soul in eva 00 and

we know yui is in eva 01 hense the it smells like ikari.. not shinji she says ikari maybe shinjis mother smell hense it wouls explain my theroy of rei 01 being in the 00 eva

AchtungAffen · 24-04-2003, 07:12 PM

Shinji actually synched with Eva 00, but only on a superficial level. When it gets deeper is when contamination occurs. Rewatch the episode.

But, Kaworu specifically says he can 'dominate' Eva 02 because:
1-Has the same body as him (Adam)
2-Its soul is shutting itself up.

He gives 2 requirements to do that. You can't have one without the other.

As for Rei.... well, if she had the same powers as Kaworu, or at least aware of them, then why did she have the worst synch ratio?

Black_Knight · 24-04-2003, 10:21 PM

So then by all logic, if Rei's soul is the recipiant of Eva-00 why does it take so long to sync with herself? She should have a super sync!

Also why in goods name would they put the corpse of a young girl into an entry plug for the soul to me moved there?

AchtungAffen · 24-04-2003, 11:19 PM

Because there are substantial differences between the three Reis, due to enviromental factors.

The corpse of a girl for the soul to be moved there?? What do you mean by that??

Kyrakasa · 25-04-2003, 01:18 AM

WHY IS THIS THREAD in the chit chat forum?

Oh well...

It's not Naoko... It makes no sense of saying it's Naoko...

Winged Zaku accurately tells you where it lets you know for sure it is Rei's soul...

Shinji: "This smells like Rei"

Asuka: "What?!? Perverted Idiot!!!"

It's rei's soul... WHY would Naoko Want to kill her daughter... Ritsuko??? Ritsuko says that Eva-00 wanted to kill her for a reason... Anno didn't make Ritsuko say that for no reason. What Anno does has a meaning... And this was to tell us that Rei's soul is in Eva-00

A thing to notice is that Rei's soul is also partly Yui...

Anno ventured into the thoughts of the separation of mind and body... When Yui was cloned... Her body was made anew...

Yet her mind was also in Rei... She kept experiencing motherly affections for Shinji...

So If Rei's soul as you call it is in Eva-00 then Yui's soul is in there as well... You can not separate completely Yui's and Rei's souls... Same as separating the Rei's consciousness...

Think of Jung's Collective unconsciousness... All Rei's are Yui in nature... They all have Yui's original intent to save her son...

So Shinji can surely synch with Eva-00 since Yui allows it... Until Yui saw Ritsuko... And got mad... She got mad because Ritsuko was SCREWING her husband.

That's why Eva-00 atttacked Ritsuko...

That's why Rei-01 was enjoying herself while repeating "That old hag is no use anymore......"

It's the unconscious intent that Rei-01 had from Yui that made her smile while calling Naoko a hag... I mean that would be the least that she would call a woman who's Screwing her husband.

I hope you understand why It is Rei/Yui's soul inside Eva-01.

1. Yui and Rei are connected. They will always be there to protect shinji. Rei will never forget what Yui has in her mind. Other Rei's will always remember what Prior Rei's have experienced.

2. Yui and Rei hate Ritsuko and Naoko.

3. Misato says that Asuka can't synch with an Eva with Yui/REi's soul in it... Misato didn't say that just for fun... There was a reason.

4. Naoko died and went splat... She never went through a test experiment where her ego could be absorbed... through the ego barrier...

5. This soul you talk about can also include the consciousness which is the id, Ego, SuperEgo since the barrier is called a Ego Barrier... So when the soul is transfered Anno infers that the consciousness goes with it... and is imbeded into the new vessel...

The vessels are of course Rei, Evangelion, and Kawarou...

I hope all that clears things up...
I'm not as elegant as MDwigs in writing essays but I try my best...

~_~

GuGuEaTeR · 25-04-2003, 01:20 AM

*spoiler warning* (chitchat room has to have that thing in in every post. not like discussion forum...)

AA have put it nicely. even though they are both Reis, one as pilot and one as core soul, they have different thoughts and ideas as such, like different people. they are ultimately, different people. even though they have the same name, look the same, and even has same DNA.

that above was proven in EoE when all three Reis stand around each other. it meant they were different entities.

i'm going with Rei in core soul. probably Rei 1, i assume.

ReichuRachiel · 25-07-2003, 06:42 PM

Iyaaa!! None of it makes any sense! Rei's soul is Lilith's soul, and there's, obviously, only one of these. When one Rei died, for whatever reason, it went to the next clone body instead of returning to Lil. (I always wanted to know the mechanics behind that, but nevermind.) Unless I've misinterpreted the mechanics of souls in the NGE universe, they can only be in one body at a time (but more than one soul can be in the same body, in special circumstances). Lilith's soul CANNOT be in both Zerogouki and Rei. It's nonsensical. Zerogouki's soul must be unique!!!

I'll admit that I have not given the mechanics behind the pilot/Eva synchronization too much thought, mostly because the whole idea of mutilating somebody's spine -- cutting their brain away from the rest of their body -- and forging an artificial cavity in the upper thorax within which psychologically-unstable 14-year-olds would be inserted to serve as the "brain" always disgusted me. [I'm talking about entry plugs, in case you couldn't figure it out.] On the other hand, I've pondered the Eva/soul matter in a way that ideologically satisfies =me=, though other people tend not to approve of my ideas. But, anyway, the Naoko=Zerogouki connection breaks SOME conventions, though I can't see any other way, really.

Zerogouki's temper tantrums seem to exhibit the same sort of bitchiness Naoko was known for. And, what do you mean, Naoko wouldn't have any reasons to want to kill Ritsuko? Maybe they seemed to get along, superficially, before Naoko's death, though there was evidently some conflict between them. And one must also consider the effect that being an Eva for five years would have on a woman. >>} Being an Eva can't be a whole lot of fun, since you're completely robbed of your free will, treated like a tool instead of a human being, and all that. And Ritsuko is in charge of the Eva technology. Simply by virtue of that, Naoko would have plenty to hold against her daughter. Not to mention the fact that Ritsuko started having a fling with you-know-who (can't say his name... it might make Naoko upset ;;p). There's the problem of how Naoko would have found out about it, but they could have been making out on EVA-00's umbilical bridge at some point, for all we know. ;;p

Okay, and the "smells like Ayanami" bit... Those kids spend an AWFUL lot of time in their entry plugs, which are inside the Evas' artificial thoracic cavities. And they're completely enveloped by this icky yellow stuff that smells vaguely like blood. I figure the LCL is taken from the Evas' cores (since the cores -are- full of LCL and the end of the entry plug that's deepest in the Eva evidently is in contact with the core, so it only makes sense) and, heck, Zero and Sho are different Evas so odds are their LCL might smell a bit different. With stuff that rank, I doubt any amount of showering could COMPLETELY eliminate the odor, so what Shinji believes "smells like Ayanami" is actually the olfactory signature of Zerogouki's goop. Ergo, when HE'S jammed into Zerogouki's spine, he takes a whiff and thinks, "Oh, gee, it smells kinda like Rei" without making any further connections as to -why-.

--Reichu

Mav · 25-07-2003, 10:19 PM

We don't know that Unit-0 was trying to kill Ritsuko, just that Ritsuko thinks that Unit-0 was trying to kill her, which could well be due to guilt over her affair with her mother's lover.

As for the "Rei smell", why on earth would a soul have a smell? Sure, being synced can trigger memories, images etc, which could include smells, I suppose, but Shinji doesn't seem to be experiencing that sort of thing when this happens.

AchtungAffen · 26-07-2003, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReichuRachiel
Iyaaa!! None of it makes any sense! Rei's soul is Lilith's soul, and there's, obviously, only one of these. When one Rei died, for whatever reason, it went to the next clone body instead of returning to Lil. (I always wanted to know the mechanics behind that, but nevermind.) Unless I've misinterpreted the mechanics of souls in the NGE universe, they can only be in one body at a time (but more than one soul can be in the same body, in special circumstances). Lilith's soul CANNOT be in both Zerogouki and Rei. It's nonsensical. Zerogouki's soul must be unique!!!

But, Kyouko's soul was in Kyouko and in Eva 02 at the same time right? That may be because souls aren't traspassed from a doner to a reciever, but rather 'copied' onto the core.

Quote:

Okay, and the "smells like Ayanami" bit... Those kids spend an AWFUL lot of time in their entry plugs, which are inside the Evas' artificial thoracic cavities. And they're completely enveloped by this icky yellow stuff that smells vaguely like blood. I figure the LCL is taken from the Evas' cores (since the cores -are- full of LCL and the end of the entry plug that's deepest in the Eva evidently is in contact with the core, so it only makes sense) and, heck, Zero and Sho are different Evas so odds are their LCL might smell a bit different. With stuff that rank, I doubt any amount of showering could COMPLETELY eliminate the odor, so what Shinji believes "smells like Ayanami" is actually the olfactory signature of Zerogouki's goop. Ergo, when HE'S jammed into Zerogouki's spine, he takes a whiff and thinks, "Oh, gee, it smells kinda like Rei" without making any further connections as to -why-.

But remember, Shinji was invaded by something, remember episode 14

Quote:

Shinji: Ah, what's this?
Something's directly entering my mind. What is it?
Ayanami? Ayanami Rei? It's Rei, this impression is hers.
Ayanami? Isn't it?

He's being invaded by something wich tries to enter Shinji's mind. Shinji recognizes it as Ayanami. But also, that last 'isnt it' isn't quite a good translation... he actually says "chigau no ka" wich is something like "different?", so he senses something that is Ayanami, but not exactly Ayanami entering his mind, something that came right from the Eva:

Quote:

Maya: No, it's not from the plug. The invasion's from Eva.

Black_Knight · 26-07-2003, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AchtungAffen

But, Kyouko's soul was in Kyouko and in Eva 02 at the same time right? That may be because souls aren't traspassed from a doner to a reciever, but rather 'copied' onto the core.[/B]

Thee was never any proof that her soul was both in herself and Eva 02. Useing Yui as a precedent, is not the only way to look at things.

She went insane, that is for certain, but it does NOT mean that her soul got copied... Remeber, when she died, Asuka was named the pilot of Eva-02.

As for Eva-00, Naoko could have been showing Shinji all the memories she had of Rei when she was little as a way to drive a wedge between them. You have to remeber that Naoko was a little fucked up in the head already too...

AchtungAffen · 26-07-2003, 08:01 PM

WEll, this looks like evidence to me:

Quote:

Male voice A : Fiction became reality. What a fate!
The experimenter herself was the guinea pig.

Male voice B : So, you think that the contact experiment
was the immediate cause?

Male voice A : The mental breakdown...
Was that a result of the contact ?

The experiment, the contact experiment (we all know what that means) was the result of the mental breakdown?

They throw a stone there hard not to notice... the same way the RCB says "and her soul appears to be that of Lillit" or with Yui "her soul appears to have been made to dwell in Eva 01".

Asuka was designated pilot before Kyouko died, because Asuka runs to tell her she was designated, and then finds her dead, obviously, because she presumed Kyouko was still alive.

Quote:

As for Eva-00, Naoko could have been showing Shinji all the memories she had of Rei when she was little as a way to drive a wedge between them. You have to remeber that Naoko was a little fucked up in the head already too...

Only that the images Shinji sees are from Rei 002, not Rei 001, not the memories Naoko had when Rei was little, not one of them was shown.