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Old 01-08-2005, 06:35 PM   #1   [permalink]
Fatal Outlaw
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Anime industry in the west...too big?

It is no question that the anime industry here in the US (and Australia as well, but I can't speak about that since I don't live there) has grown over the last 5 years. So much so that it's in a slump right now (announcements this year at AX was practically non-existant, there were 1-2 titles announced for every major company, in addition to the ones we already know.) Obviously, it's because the companies are releasing more and more titles every year. Sounds good? Well not for me. I have lost interest in buying anime dvd's becuase the surge of the anime titles being released are absolute CRAP. Practically after summer 2003, 75% (note: statistic pulled out of my ass) of anime dvds released are either horrible, or released in disguise in shiny collector's edition that won't amount to anything in ebay AND is also horrible. I think this is the reason why I lost interest in local domestic dvd's. So much so that I actually turned to fansubs of GOOD titles that aren't even licnesed yet, except for Naruto. For reference, the ones that I did follow on fansub is Bleach, Tsubasa Chronicle, Prince of Tennis, He is my Master, and Kanon. Regardless, there are good releases of good anime titles in the past two years that I stopped buying dvd's, but the only one I can mention is Gungrave. The anime industry is so big now that you have to choose what to buy. Remember some 3-5 years ago? I wish I could go back to the time when Escaflowne, Bebop, Eva, Trigun and Gundam W were being released on dvd simultaneously. Back then, I bought every single dvd release.

As for manga...well, that's for another post. Except I'd like to thank ADV manga for releasing 700000000 unknown titles TOO FAST and flooding the market, and they have a nerve to say the market was already oversaturated

Regardless, I'm just trying to vent. Anyone else have an opinion on the anime industry? Too big? Too small?
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Old 01-08-2005, 08:49 PM   #2   [permalink]
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The fact that there are more anime does not make the good anime that exists bad. There are just more choice, and you have to be careful in where you put your wallet.

I buy my DVD's very selectively, but I buy them with a bang. I shell out for box sets that I really want, and shy away from anything else. I knew I wanted Appleseed, and I got Appleseed. I know I want Macross Zero, and I will get Macross Zero, whenever it comes out, if it does, and I sure hope it does.

Fact is, there are plenty of bad TV shows. However, you still know which ones are good. The ratio is just bad, but the number of good ones are still there. Remember, anime is just Japanese TV, and to think that all their shows are good is naive.
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Old 01-08-2005, 11:21 PM   #3   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by thedarkmarine
The fact that there are more anime does not make the good anime that exists bad. There are just more choice, and you have to be careful in where you put your wallet.

I buy my DVD's very selectively, but I buy them with a bang. I shell out for box sets that I really want, and shy away from anything else. I knew I wanted Appleseed, and I got Appleseed. I know I want Macross Zero, and I will get Macross Zero, whenever it comes out, if it does, and I sure hope it does.

Fact is, there are plenty of bad TV shows. However, you still know which ones are good. The ratio is just bad, but the number of good ones are still there. Remember, anime is just Japanese TV, and to think that all their shows are good is naive.
You totally missed my point. The first point of my post (that I was trying to make) was the reason of why I am not into anime that much anymore. And that reason is the fact that there are A LOT of bad anime coming out, and that is also the reason why the industry is in a slump right now (2nd point.) It's not about me not being content of not being able to buy good anime or not knowing what anime to buy.

It's not the "fact that there are more anime does not make the good anime that exists bad," that was not what my post is about. I'm not denying that there are good anime out there (thus, my "75%" comment in the original post,) it's just that releasing a lot of bad anime is hurting the industry.

As for "and to think that all their shows are good is naive," well, I have no idea where you got that. I never mentioned anything like that, but on the other hand, I indulged in nostalgia during the time when ALL anime being released here in the US was GOOD. I was a hardcore fan around 2000 practically 90% of the anime releases were Escaflowne, Evangelion, Gundam Wing, Bebop, etc etc. Now, those were the good old days. The time when every anime dvd coming out was a must have.

On to what you actually said though,

Quote:
Fact is, there are plenty of bad TV shows. However, you still know which ones are good. The ratio is just bad, but the number of good ones are still there.
here's the thing though, there's companies licensing these shows and bringing it over. It just doesn't come out like American shows where you can't avoid the things that suck. There's people that screen this shows before they sign the dotted line to release the show in the US...rather, there's people who DON'T screen these shows before they sign the dotted line. You would think these guys can avoid releasing the bad titles. Regardless, these companies (ahem, ADV mostly) is thinking that "quantity over quality" approack rather than vice versa.
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Old 02-08-2005, 01:04 AM   #4   [permalink]
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I see.

It is a sad fact of reality that numbers is what drives business, and not quality. If they find that by releasing more and more crap, they get more shinies, then they will release more and more crap. Also, if more money flows into the industry, I can't see how that is bad for the industry. May be horrible for the artform, and if that's what you mean, then I totally agree. Then again, Hollywood cranks out movies like bunnies, but every once in a while one really good appears.

Personally, I don't really see the big deal. I'll still just focus on the good things, like before. I could never focus on all of the good stuff anyways, what's so different now?
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Old 02-08-2005, 03:37 AM   #5   [permalink]
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Things will resolve themselves. The Anime industry, like many industries, is something that goes through rises and recessions.

The sheer amount of anime that companies are bringing to the United States has caused the cost of anime episodes to rise. The article on Animenation.net/news stated that prices are getting too high for a lot of the smaller companies to compete, and there were even theories that some of the companies might pull out of the business soon.

But here's the thing--its sort of like housing.

Take my community for example. Right now, we're in a housing boom. Everywhere you look, places are being torn up to make room for new streets and housing areas. People with acres of land are being paid huge amounts of money to sell small pieces of thier territory to the government so that houses can be built there. The cost of living in my rather small city now exists somewhere along the lines of 500,000 US dollars for an average-sized one story house. The reason for this is because of demand, as well as the implied demand that the government thinks it sees. Houses are being built like crazy, and the cost is being driven up because the houses are being bought up.

Until recently. You see, at 500,000 dollars, they reached a cut off point where, I'm sorry, no one could really afford them anymore. New people starting out in their lives couldn't afford to buy a first house that expensive. Everyone turned to apartments. Then apartments became ridiculously expensive because everyone turned to them.

Analysts now expect the prices of homes in our area to drop by hundreds of thousands of dollars (slowly, over a period). The bad news is that this will also probably drop the value of the homes for the people who already live there.

The anime industry, I expect, will go through something similar. It reaches a huge peak, then suddenely it becomes too costly to make compared to how much income they receive, and companies run out of the money to license titles. A slump will occur, and as a result, the prince of licensing episodes will decrease due to disinterest, which in the future will allow it to spark again. Such is the way of things.

And like my housing example, there will be good and bad; the good will be that the recession will lead to less titles and the regeneration of the market; the bad will be that, during the recession, companies will be able to license very few titles. Sure, they will all make sure to license the really good titles, but you know how a lot of "A" titles that air in Japan get picked up so quickly that you see them licensed and on US shelves by the end of the year? You won't see that during that period; expect to wait an upwards of 2 years for a title that finished airing in Japan to come to the US when that time comes.
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Old 02-08-2005, 08:58 AM   #6   [permalink]
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I dont think anime will be affected like that. Even if consumers buy less of a particular anime, there is still morning kids tv shows, rental businesses etc that'll buy up that ----.

I agree that in the last few years, the sheer amount of anime coming out has killed the days when we assumed we could afford to own more titles than the local stores. Such a time existed for me once =)

But like all things, now you have to be selective. There are some great anime that I expect should end up licensed and be worth buying.

Honestly though, $35 a dvd is too much for me. Anime or otherwise. I'll watch a dvd probably 3 times in its life. The only reason Id buy it, is so I can never lose the memory, and to own a piece of something I love. Thats not the industry's fault.

Oh, and what are you smoking? Tsubasa Chronicles? The only thing *that* anime has going for it is a hugely known company behind it. The last episode I thought they'd actually do something. Actually make the characters achieve something. But they chickened out. (last ep -> fight in the arena for the prize).
If you want a nice romance, "Emma" is quite pleasant. A bit of drama, a bit of humour, nice artwork. None of this bimbo princess crap.
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Old 02-08-2005, 07:46 PM   #7   [permalink]
Fatal Outlaw
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Originally Posted by Robotech Master
Things will resolve themselves. The Anime industry, like many industries, is something that goes through rises and recessions.

The sheer amount of anime that companies are bringing to the United States has caused the cost of anime episodes to rise. The article on Animenation.net/news stated that prices are getting too high for a lot of the smaller companies to compete, and there were even theories that some of the companies might pull out of the business soon.

But here's the thing--its sort of like housing.

Take my community for example. Right now, we're in a housing boom. Everywhere you look, places are being torn up to make room for new streets and housing areas. People with acres of land are being paid huge amounts of money to sell small pieces of thier territory to the government so that houses can be built there. The cost of living in my rather small city now exists somewhere along the lines of 500,000 US dollars for an average-sized one story house. The reason for this is because of demand, as well as the implied demand that the government thinks it sees. Houses are being built like crazy, and the cost is being driven up because the houses are being bought up.

Until recently. You see, at 500,000 dollars, they reached a cut off point where, I'm sorry, no one could really afford them anymore. New people starting out in their lives couldn't afford to buy a first house that expensive. Everyone turned to apartments. Then apartments became ridiculously expensive because everyone turned to them.

Analysts now expect the prices of homes in our area to drop by hundreds of thousands of dollars (slowly, over a period). The bad news is that this will also probably drop the value of the homes for the people who already live there.

The anime industry, I expect, will go through something similar. It reaches a huge peak, then suddenely it becomes too costly to make compared to how much income they receive, and companies run out of the money to license titles. A slump will occur, and as a result, the prince of licensing episodes will decrease due to disinterest, which in the future will allow it to spark again. Such is the way of things.

And like my housing example, there will be good and bad; the good will be that the recession will lead to less titles and the regeneration of the market; the bad will be that, during the recession, companies will be able to license very few titles. Sure, they will all make sure to license the really good titles, but you know how a lot of "A" titles that air in Japan get picked up so quickly that you see them licensed and on US shelves by the end of the year? You won't see that during that period; expect to wait an upwards of 2 years for a title that finished airing in Japan to come to the US when that time comes.
Let me tell you, that's a really REALLY good example that you used.

Anyway though, yes, it's a cycle, but I personally think it won't get up to that really high point that it was some 5-6 years ago, becuase prior to that, there was (figuratively) no anime industry. There were some, but very very little (think 1991-96). I personally don't think it's going to that high point in the cycle, it's going to be close to it, but it's not going to be the same anymore becuase there are already a crapload of titles out there. It's like the popularity of Pokemon. It's still (contrary to what people believe) popular among kids, but it's never going to reach that peak again when it was all over the media (well, maybe but I doubt it.)

Quote:
I dont think anime will be affected like that. Even if consumers buy less of a particular anime, there is still morning kids tv shows, rental businesses etc that'll buy up that ----.
Eventually though, consumers will lose interest, and these rental businesses etc will decline in business eventually.

Quote:
I agree that in the last few years, the sheer amount of anime coming out has killed the days when we assumed we could afford to own more titles than the local stores. Such a time existed for me once =)
and oh how I missed those days. I still have my very huge anime collection worth close to about $7000 (price factors include limited editions, ie Akira tin...I wonder how much that will sell for.) These days, there's just way too many titles that I'd rather not buy which influenced me so much that I only rent now, even the good ones out there.

Quote:
Oh, and what are you smoking? Tsubasa Chronicles? The only thing *that* anime has going for it is a hugely known company behind it.
Ehhh...I like it, but then again, I'm a sucker for anything CLAMP.
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Old 03-08-2005, 01:12 AM   #8   [permalink]
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My point exactly. All Ive ever heard about the anime is 'CLAMP' this, and 'CLAMP' that.

Rating it impartially, it sucks. Its pretty, but it sucks. Right now Im at a loss to think of a comparison anime that was also pretty that sucked so badly.
Take that last episode I mentioned before. You KNOW an anime is going to hell when it flashbacks its own ------- episode twice, and the episode is only like 20 mins long. Makes me wonder if every single child in Japan has ADD or amnesia.

"I know about the curse"
<long stupid flashback about the curse>

yeh uhm, Im pretty sure the audience remembers the frigging curse. I do realise they were just trying to show about the tournament's relavence and her knowing why he was fighting etc. But it was the second flashback, and frankly, anyone *not* able to figure out there was a connection is probably too stupid to breathe anyway. No need for 10 second or whatever flashbacks.


EDIT: To keep within the topic and not neccesarily be just bashing Tsubasa Id like to point out that in the west this style of video play is not common. Tactics accepted in Japan (still/slow frames, flashbacks, 'next episode', 'last episode' etc) will be seen in the west for what they are. Long series such as Naruto, Kenshin, Bleach etc will find it harder to sell to anyone other than the young teen markets. An adult would surely have trouble justifying paying $30 for something that is comprised of 1/3rd the visuals he got in the last $30 dvd.

Long series that do not make themselves redundant are things like "Great Teacher Onizuka". Kenshin qualifies, but fark they talk a lot.

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Old 03-08-2005, 06:07 PM   #9   [permalink]
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Hoping not too run the course of this thread down, I'm going to talk about how big of an impact the anime indsutry caused here in the US.

The anime industry is probably at it's low point now becuase ALSO, I think the mainstream people are getting bored of it. Of course, not only otakus buy anime, a bulk of it must be coming from the regular joe (I say that becuase, despite the number of "otakus" here in the states, it's not enough to sustain the industry, that's just like every other industry out there, there's the loyal fans, and the expendible people that'll buy some anime like GitS/Appleseed/etc.) Anyway, like I said, those mainstream, people just gpt bored of it and stopped buying anime peridocially. Think about it, anime is everywhere now, even in US toons AND commercials that air on the networks. For example, anyone here seen the "eSurance" commercial? That's practically anime, except it's not. The influence is definatly there.

So what am I saying? Well, I'm hoping there'd be an American cartoon of it's own style so the mainstream folks don't tire of the anime style too quickly. It's kinda out there, but it's just something I thoguht of while I was running my daily 3 miles.
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Old 05-08-2005, 03:04 AM   #10   [permalink]
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I think it has to do with animation in Japan is starting to suck as well. The 90's are where it's at.
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Old 06-08-2005, 02:22 PM   #11   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by bigbi
I think it has to do with animation in Japan is starting to suck as well. The 90's are where it's at.
That's true. But the American companies don't have to release it here. They know well that it sucks, but of course, they all adapt the "quantity over quality" vision.

Reading the other thread, I was wondering, how's the anime industry in Australia? When I was posting at the madman forums, the anime dvd's were being released some 6 months after the US dvd's hit the stores. It's probably faster now. Also, with one major distributor, I'm wondering if they released all the titles that are also released here, or only the good ones.
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Old 06-08-2005, 09:03 PM   #12   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Fatal Outlaw
That's true. But the American companies don't have to release it here. They know well that it sucks, but of course, they all adapt the "quantity over quality" vision.

Reading the other thread, I was wondering, how's the anime industry in Australia? When I was posting at the madman forums, the anime dvd's were being released some 6 months after the US dvd's hit the stores. It's probably faster now. Also, with one major distributor, I'm wondering if they released all the titles that are also released here, or only the good ones.
Anime fans tend to want to watch what's hot in Japan right now
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Old 06-08-2005, 11:31 PM   #13   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Fatal Outlaw
Reading the other thread, I was wondering, how's the anime industry in Australia? When I was posting at the madman forums, the anime dvd's were being released some 6 months after the US dvd's hit the stores. It's probably faster now. Also, with one major distributor, I'm wondering if they released all the titles that are also released here, or only the good ones.
Whilst I haven't really been actively purchasing anime lately, the amount of titles available now is far greater then a year ago, some titles I didn't even know were available such as Samurai Champloo, Ikki Tousen and Cromatie High whatever (which looks interesting)
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Old 07-08-2005, 02:25 PM   #14   [permalink]
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With the surge of popularity I just dont see why were still paying an average of 8 to 10 dollars per episode (5 dollars if your REALLY lucky) I mean there making about 25-32 bucks for every dvd sold....thats alot of money there putting into there pockets.

Thats really whats kept me from buying alot recently, i have payments and frankly id rather pay nothing for them.
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Old 07-08-2005, 03:40 PM   #15   [permalink]
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Originally Posted by Squall Leonhart
With the surge of popularity I just dont see why were still paying an average of 8 to 10 dollars per episode (5 dollars if your REALLY lucky) I mean there making about 25-32 bucks for every dvd sold....thats alot of money there putting into there pockets.

Thats really whats kept me from buying alot recently, i have payments and frankly id rather pay nothing for them.
Yes, the pricing now is ridiculous. Anime and manga are very popular in the west now. $30 for 3 episodes is waaay too much.
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